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"Hidden" remaps now detectable by dealers

Discussion in 'Audi S4/A4/A4 Cab (B8 Chassis)' started by scoTTy, Mar 13, 2012.

  1. scoTTy
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    scoTTy Active Member

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    [Mar 13, 2012]
    In the past many remappers have claimed their maps aren't detectable by dealers. We all know that if they look hard enough they'll be able to tell but generally dealers didn't have the tools. It seems that's changing. These docs are from the US and suggest that modified cars will be flagged on the database. It doesn't seem like they're voiding any warranty (well they're not allowed to anyway) but if there's a power train issue then it seems to remove the "mod friendly" dealers from sneeking it in under warranty. That was always a dubious practise as effectively some "mod friendly" dealers/franchises were effectively defrauding Audi.

    Audi documents :

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3628815/Car/General/Audi_1.jpg
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3628815/Car/General/Audi_2.jpg
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3628815/Car/General/Audi_3.jpg

    Another thought is that insurers will be able to more easily identify cars that are modded and not declared to them effectively giving them an argument not to pay out.
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  3. VRStu
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    VRStu Just Looking VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 13, 2012]
    Thanks ScoTTy. Looks like they're upping there game a little. I'd heard about something like this with the introduction of ODIS the replacement for VAS.

    They've been at it for a while, look at the date on this one i have -

    [​IMG]
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  4. scoTTy
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    scoTTy Active Member

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    [Mar 13, 2012]
    In the past they've checked various things. The common give away was over pressure on the boost.

    Two things have changed :

    Now it seems the car will be given a marker to say it's modded.
    The information will now be held by Audi rather than just being info the dealers aware of.
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  5. TripleD
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    TripleD Audi Novice

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    [Mar 13, 2012]
    Does this now open the market up more for the DTUK boxes as they can be taken off prior to the dealer seeing the car?
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  6. nwhiteley
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    nwhiteley Member

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    [Mar 13, 2012]
    Would the logs in the ECU still show the level of boost being delivered though? So while the map on the ECU would be stock, the logs would show the performance has been changed. Or does it not work like that?
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  7. johnnythepie
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    johnnythepie Well-Known Member

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    [Mar 14, 2012]
    Not unexpected, but will really affect the guys that have a physical chip in the ecu.In my case, i visit my remapper,have the map taken off, have the dealer work done and then return to him to have it reinstalled.He keeps a copy of my original spec specifically for this purpose.His name is Colin at CNLremapping.
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  8. VRStu
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    VRStu Just Looking VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 14, 2012]
    Even that will become more difficult with most new ECU's being locked.
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  9. Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev.
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    Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev. Site Sponsor Site Sponsor

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    [Mar 15, 2012]
    Currently, I haven't come up against this when the car has just been in for servicing. For fault finding, yes. We ALWAYS read the original file from the customers ECU and keep it on a database. We offer the service for a small fee to have the ECU flashed to standard, and then have the modded file flashed back at a later date.

    We do this to allow the cars fault to be diagnosed as it left the factory, so that the customer can be sure that any fault is independent of our calibration.

    Rick
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  10. scoTTy
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    scoTTy Active Member

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    [Mar 17, 2012]
    That makes sense to eliminate the map but it won't mean they can't find out it's been mapped of course.
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  11. Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev.
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    Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev. Site Sponsor Site Sponsor

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    [Mar 17, 2012]
    Not sure what you mean, the car is put back to as it was before the map - there is no trace of it left on.

    Rick
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  12. scoTTy
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    scoTTy Active Member

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    [Mar 17, 2012]
    Do you clear all the tell tale signs? I was under the impression they couldn't be all be cleared.

    e.g. max boost pressure, flash count, software/firmware checksums etc
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  13. VRStu
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    VRStu Just Looking VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 18, 2012]
    scoTTy the boost pressure having been increased is only relative to the modified software, once back on stock software the boost pressure will be stock - Although worth noting that REVO and probably APR stock mode is not stock it's a detuned version of their code.

    Flash counts are normally reset to zero once flashed.

    If the stock file is on the car then I guess the checksum etc will be correct.
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  14. hades-
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    hades- Yorkshire & Humber Rep. Regional Rep VCDS Map User

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  15. Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev.
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    Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev. Site Sponsor Site Sponsor

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    [Mar 18, 2012]
    As above, when we flash it back, it's undetectable :)

    Rick
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  16. voorhees
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    voorhees Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Mar 18, 2012]
    Revokev says "When trial software expires it runs off completely stock tables although they are in different locations to the standard file... this causes a lot of confusion for those out there playing at tuning or those with limited tuning tools, thus all the BS and rumours out there. The fact that a main dealer can flash over expired Revo trial or any other Revo software says it all really!"
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  17. hades-
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    hades- Yorkshire & Humber Rep. Regional Rep VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 18, 2012]
    so what if the car ****s up on the motorway
    your not gona get the map off b4 audi get there hands on it
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  18. VRStu
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    VRStu Just Looking VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 18, 2012]
    I'm not 100% sure on the trial software but I know for sure that when flashed and then selecting stock mode it isn't the stock map but a REVO incarnation of the stock map.

    I agree about the 'problems' with flashing previously REVO'd ECU's, it's often caused by people not doing a full flash and modifying the code on the ECU then falling foul and blaming REVO. Although I think REVO could be a little more upfront about the implications too.

    The statement still stands that a REVO flashed ECU, even in 'Stock Mode' (or as you say an expired trial) will not look like an OEM flashed ECU if examined.
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  19. voorhees
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    voorhees Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Mar 18, 2012]
    Stu I guess detailed inspection could find all sorts
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  20. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 18, 2012]
    If Audi weren't such a bunch of backward 'tards and offered optional performance packs like BMW/Vauxhall/Renault... Then this issue would evaporate, but every time I've been to an Audi event where I've enquired about whether they will ever be offering performance tuning parts I've been told categorically that their customers have no need for / don't want it.

    Blind fools, I'm sure when their moment in the ascendency comes to pass and they're left having to work to get customers the blinkers may come off.

    Its issues like this that could force me to switch brand after 20 years.
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  21. VRStu
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    VRStu Just Looking VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 18, 2012]
    Oh for sure mate but that wasn't really my meaning. When I said examined I meant the online check that's apparently done automatically when plugged into VAS/ODIS :icon_thumright:

    On another note, I can see a little minefield. Picture the scene -

    You purchase a nice one owner 6 month old car from an Audi Centre, it's Audi Approved of course and of the highest standard.

    What happens then after a year or so of ownership a serious fault develops and you go back to Audi to have it fixed only to hear the immortal words "I'm sorry Sir your car is not covered by our warranty, you've had it Chip Tuned".

    What you didn't know was you bought a nice one owner car with a REVO/APR file installed and in stock mode. When they PDi'd it for delivery it gained the prestigious TD1 tag and the rest is history.

    That's gonna take some sorting!!
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  22. Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev.
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    Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev. Site Sponsor Site Sponsor

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    [Mar 18, 2012]
    Well that would be an extreme case I think, but providing it didn't go straight to Audi then we would sort it.

    Rick
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