Hi, just joined, i may be the owner of an Audi a4 r reg tomorrow but need some advice

[matt-e-g2010]

Hi, hope you dont mind me just jumping on the forums but i need some help, im going to purchase an Audi a4 tommorrow on a r reg, its very tidy and a good price, the problem is the piston rings are worn as ive done a compression test, im almost certain its not the head gasket as its only piston 1 and oil on the spark plug, its a big job but am capable and will put new headgasket (unavoidable) and cam belt and maybe re- seat valves, my problem is i cant seem to find any Piston rings on ebay or anywhere else, the engine is a 1.6 but everywhere just mentions A4 1.8 or A4 2.8, this is the first Audi ive done and please forgive me if ive just missed something obvious, i really hope you can help as ive fallen in love with the car and would hate not to buy her cus of parts, Also, if im not pushing my luck are there any pitfalls to watch out for, im going to do it with engine in, shes done 130000 miles and even my wifes getting jelous

 

[aragorn]

I'd be tempted to just fit another engine, spending money on a 1.6 is a waste of time imo.

Even the 1.8T in standard form isnt particularly quick.

You'll probably find getting to the bottom end with the engine fitted wont be easy, as the subframe is in the way.

If you really want to fix it, then try All German Parts for the bits.

 

[matt-e-g2010]

Havnt looked, so can you get the sump off? as i dont mind working under axle stand, as long as i can get the pistons out through the top, im not really bothered with speed, as long as it does 70 on the motorway and is reliable (i have 2 kids and will be a family car). Lifting the engine is not an option and i wont pay a gargage to do it and to be honest spending maybe 30 quid on new rings is the cheapest option. i can get all the parts quite cheaply, were talking about fifty quid in total but cant find the piston rings to buy, if i start faffing about, changing my plan its going to end up as a money pit, thanks for your opinion though Ill check out all german parts, cheers.

 

[Jonion]

It could turn in to a money pit anyway.
I know mine has.
Cheap cars are often cheap for a reason.
If you can't find rings for it yet how can you be sure it's only going to cost £50. Are you not buying a gasket set for it? Or putting in new oil/filter while you're there? Or new cambelt etc ?
And what if you then find it's not the rings causing the problem?

Would it cost that much more to find one that doesn't have any obvious problems?

 

[CraigG]

a B5 A4 isnt a family car. i swear there is more room in the back of a clio than there is in mine...

 

[matt-e-g2010]

Yeah already said i was going to put a new cambelt in, and 99% sure its a ring in number one, true it could be a leaky or damaged valve but theres also oil on the plug wich suggests its a ring, will have the head off anyway and check valves and re seat for good measure wich is free, but just in case i can buy valves for a few quid each, oil change and filter is just standard maintanance anyway and you should be doing it so dont see that as added expense, ive rebuilt 3 engines in the last 2 years and there all still singing sweet as a nut and done 95% cheaper than a garage could do it, i just need to know where i can get the rings, all german parts dont do it, but i just remembered a shop up the road call advanced automotive, they got me a old mini metro valve that had cracked. no one else could.
Essentially, and this is very true, an engine is very basic as long as you understand how it works. I also love and enjoy working on engines, the more it messes me about the more determined i get until its perfect.

 

[aragorn]

"Family" means kids! Kids will fit fine in the back.

If you want space for 4 adults, you need an executive saloon car, ie an A6/5 series/etc.


You cant get the sump off on a 1.8 without lifting the engine up off the mounts and/or dropping the subframe. I cant see the 1.6 being any different.

I also dont think its only going to cost you 50 quid. The rings arent going to seal properly without at least honing the bores, and thats going to need the head off. Then you'll need a head gasket, and may as well do the valve stem oil seals while your in there as a dodgy stem seal could well have caused the problem, along with the timing belt, then spark plugs and oil/filter, That lots 300quid easily.

And thats assuming all the other usual culprits like the front suspension arms etc are in good condition.

 

[aragorn]

Also, given you havent actually phoned all german, dont rule them out just yet. Not everything they do is on their website. Give jason a call and ask the question!

 

[matt-e-g2010]

Suspension arms are brand new, they was fitted for the mot, all four, i know about the honing and to be honest all the machining bits like honing ive done before with good results, which is free. its not 300 quid buddy, ive priced it all up, no where near, where you getting your parts from?
If thats right about not being able to get the sump off without lifting the engine ill see if i can do it by jacking it from below somehow like you would to get to a cambelt on some fwd cars, ill check it out though and if i need an engine lift i probs wont bother buying. But im sure there is a way without taking the engine out to get those pistons out, the germans think of everything.

Yep, support engine with jack at the lug at front of engine, remove engine mount, jack engine about 4 inches, remove the 2 17mm bolts holding subframe to chassis, subframe will drop a little, sump will come out, refit engine to mount (for security so you dont squash your head if the jack decides to quit) and there you go, simple

 

[Jonion]

the germans think of everything.

lol
yeah they do, often how to make simple jobs ****** awkward.

 

[aragorn]

I've not actually sat down and worked it out.

I just know that i "refreshed" an astra 8v motor about 5 years back, which consisted more or less with what your doing now, ie rings, bearings, headset, timing belt, and any other associated seals, and by the time i was done i'd spent the best part of 300quid.

Its all the little bits that add up, a sump gasket is about 15quid for instance. Timing belt kit for the 1.8T is £100 alone, although the 1.6 stuff may be cheaper.

Cars have a tendancy to snowball, especially cheap ones. I baught an old discovery last year, which needed a touch of welding on the sills, a water pump and a clutch slave. Only once it was actually home did i realise that it actually needs a full service, clutch slave, clutch line, couple litres of fluid, a brake pipe, water pump, distributor cap, 8 spark plugs, leads, rotor arm, a gallon of coolant, 3 new drive belts, a new propshaft, two new suspension bushes, a heater matrix and a lot more welding than i had expected.

Once i got it running, it then scraped the MOT on emissions, at which point i discovered the distributors advance mechanism was fubar, the carbs were needing rebuilt and after a new dizzy and several hours cleaning and resetting the carbs, i discovered that the camshaft was gubbed and the engine was going to need another several hundered quid spent on it to make it serviceable, and produce more than the 23hp it seemed to be producing.

Ended up breaking it, and lost a LOT of money, as i simply couldnt afford to continue shovelling cash at it. My "water pump and clutch slave" turned into me having spent nearly £500 on parts, plus countless hours effecting the repairs, and in all that time it drove about 200miles.

Having said all that, I'd be interested in a progress thread regardless, so you can detail the job and tally up the costs as you go, plus get some photos of the car up!

 

[jcb]

think you will find the rings for the 1.6 in the A4 are the same for any of the 1.6 NA VAG engines, all manner of golf parts that will fit.
rings themselves cost pennies, cambelt for the 1.6 or even the 1.8 8v are much much cheaper than the frankly overpriced 1.8t parts.

better question is why did the rings go in just one cylinder?
what were your compression test results? did you do just compression or leakdown?

I rebuilt a vauxhall engine that had the exact same symptoms, turned out to be a chipped valve......
I don't mind taking on the project but I would need to know exactly what the issue is before I got into it.
the car you desribe would have to be mint in EVERY other way and at a very resonable price before I started pulling engines apart.

You could get a replacement engine for anywhere from £50-£150, no hoist required you can wheel them in and out of the front on a trolley.
then you have a spare engine youc an do what you like with, fix it and sell it to recover cost or do it up properly over time and refit it.

 

[matt-e-g2010]

Compression results were 1. 56psi 2.134 3.126 4.135, i put some oil in number 1 and psi went up to 103, there all slightly down so i guess its just milage and wear, i just hope the ring in number 1 hasnt broke and caused scoring as, like you said i would expect them to be all roughly the same but i doubt it has broke in number one as the compression would be next to nothing, will be taking the head off first though and fingers crossed im wrong and is something to do with valves, sticky or cracked. I can see the appeal with a new engine but theres no history there and whats to say cambelt doesnt snap, needs major work after a few thousand miles etc..etc.. with an engine ive done at least i know its good to for ages and i enjoy doing it
The only problem ive had with parts is the piston rings, cheapest i can find is 90+vat for full set, seems a lot but ive got in touch with my bruv in law in poland as Audi are very popular and there culture is much more fix it rather than replace it and he can get a set for 78 zloty (roughly 19 pound and as they weigh next to nothing postage will be chaep) im seeing the guy tomorrow and will make my final decision about buying it, hes gone down to 250 but im not going to go above 150, it honestly is a nice example and much to nice to send to scrappy or break his argument though he spent a lot for suspension arms for mot but my argument is hel get even less for scrap, il wait and see and i will post some pics and keep you updated with progress.
Oh, nice tip JCB, i may just take engine out that way and totally rebuild so will be as good as new

 

[aragorn]

If it was a valve issue, the oil wouldnt have doubled the compression imo.

I wouldnt fit any used engine without changing the cam belt anyway. My old FWD A4 had a 195k 1.8T engine with a worn oil pump. I thaught about it for a while, and eventually just changed the whole engine. I could have put a pump in for £200 or so, but the engine was due a cam belt anyway, and clearly had huge mileage and had run for 40k with low oil pressure, so there was no telling how worn the internals would be. Picked up a used engine which had already had its oil pump done, the done the cam belt, rocker cover gasket and clutch, and dropped it in. Ye it cost me a lot more than just fixing the oil pump, but i'd have been absolutely raging had i spend the time and money repairing the old engine, only for it to spit its guts out 6 months later.

On the rings, i have to say i'd rather use quality parts from a trusted supplier, than some tat of unknown origins. Skimp on that one part, and all the money you put into rebuilding the motor could quite easily vanish down the drain.

I've learned this the hard way, most recent example being the control arms on the front of the A4. I fitted cheap ones, they lasted 4 months, and killed two tyres. Cheapo kit was £120. Proper Meyle kit was £330. so trying to save £210 ended up costing me over £300 more than it would have if i'd just baught the decent parts in the first place, by the time i'd replaced the tyres and had the alignment done again, plus it wasted another day of my time redoing work i'd already completed.

I can see your getting the car for muchos cheapness, but buying cheap doesn't always work out cheaper, depending just how much is needing fixed.

 

[matt-e-g2010]

Yeah, got to agrree with you there about cheap parts you dont know the origin of, i heard there even making fake brake pads now, im confident about the rings though as its a good company my brother in law uses, Stuffs a lot cheaper in poland aswel, now if it was cheap from someone i didnt know coming from China, i would probably look else where, All together its £90 pound for the bits and im budgeting another £100 for unforseen problems, the Audi has 10 months mot and 3 months tax and is very tidy so in my opinion its worth rescuing from the crusher, If all goes well may even sell it for a profit, I will post a picture if i buy it and update on progress.
Also a lot of stuff can be repaired rather than replaced, my mum took her car to the garage cus the aircon moter wasnt working, garage wanted 120 for a new one and fitting, i took a look, cleaned the brushes and contacts, worked good as new and was free.