1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Help with unknown mods and remap

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by Jordysport, Oct 16, 2011.

  1. Jordysport
    Offline

    Jordysport Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2011
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Oct 16, 2011]
    hi all, had my S3 for a couple of weeks now, it has the following

    - Unknown brand TIP (Exactly like this one: Audi TT S3 225 Silicone Induction Intake Pipe Leon Seat | eBay)

    - Unknown brand DV (adjustable by screw on top (this is the exact one: RECIRCULATING DUMP VALVE WITH ADJUSTABLE SPRING RATE | eBay)

    - Powerflow Cat back exhaust sytem 2.5" (i think- will check in a mo - confirmed)

    - Decat pipe (Like one of these: Pipe Werx Audi S3 TT 225 Exhaust De Cat Bypass | eBay)
    - N249 bypass thingy.

    when it was on the rollers it did have an open cone filter but swapped that out for standard airbox now as there was alot of heat. will be putting a performance panel filter there and drill a hole in the airbox for a cold feed from the bumper when i do a FMIC

    and it has been remapped apparantly, but the figures are as follows (graph on my progress thread)

    232 bhp and 260 lbft at 1.18 bar boost,

    does this sound right as the boost is quite low for a remapped car. maybe it was a concervative map? and does anyone know the standard boost pressure? any ideas where i go from here modding towards stage 2?
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2011
    #1
  2. Ads

    Ads

    [Dec 23, 2014]

  3. Jordysport
    Offline

    Jordysport Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2011
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Oct 16, 2011]
    Ok i've updated my post with the exact mods and found ones similar. and i was wondering where i should go from here for a stage 2,

    - Do i keep the 2.5 cat back exhaust or upgrade to a 3" custom exhaust (got a manufacturer local to me) aswell as a 3" Downpipe + Decat pipe? or is there advantage to a 3"

    - I am getting a FMIC but will not be forge it will be one like westy's i think, with the universal parts summing to about £180

    - ITG panel filter (the best? or just overpriced)

    - Cold Air feed from Bumper

    - R-tech Custom remap (or may go to paul at RS-Tuning for a custom map)
    #2
  4. Dani_B19
    Offline

    Dani_B19 Audi-sports own special child.

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2008
    Messages:
    7,304
    Likes Received:
    90
    [Oct 16, 2011]
    Where are you based mate?
    #3
  5. Jordysport
    Offline

    Jordysport Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2011
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Oct 16, 2011]
    East devon (on M5) or in Oxford (90% of the time atm)

    am tempted by a jetex filter and a heatshield and CAI but then again if i were to do the cai the bumper would have to come off and maybe a fog light so may aswell do the FMIC while i am there for only £180 odd.

    But reading up on it there seems to be a limit to the power to cost ratio of around 290bhp after which you could go hybrid but for the cost i would rather just get a big turbo conversion and go for 400bhp lol, but i am not that crazy.

    So if i was to get:

    - Jetex filter with CAI
    - FMIC
    - Custom Remap

    Would the Standard downpipe be super restrictive? if so do i get a 3" downpipe with decat and then a reducer to a 2.5" system currently on it.
    #4
  6. s3schofield
    Offline

    s3schofield Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2009
    Messages:
    129
    Likes Received:
    4
    [Oct 16, 2011]
    im in the same position got revo now but want a 3" dp and the ebay intercooler i have an open cone and heatshield works well
    #5
  7. 16Klappe
    Offline

    16Klappe RacecaR forward is RacecaR backwards. Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    5,774
    Likes Received:
    1,140
    [Oct 16, 2011]
    Yes you need the downpipe for st2, here's the difference with a KO3s downpipe and a 3" downpipe -

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    232BHP at 1.18bar is VERY low for a mapped S3, I'd be searching for boost leaks if I were you. It should be closer to 20/22PSI depending on map. My KO3s boosts to 24PSI and has seen as high as 26PSI. This would explain the high under bonnet temps', the turbo must be working it's tits off just to give that 17PSI.

    I would check that it doesn't have a downpipe, never seen a decat with a standard downpipe as they are formed as one piece.

    I wouldn't bother with a CAI personally, I'm going to be making myself an airbox which houses a cone filter like Tufty has which will be more than enough for -300BHP.

    Cheap ebay FMIC kits are good, but I would recommend redoing the pipe work yourself to get a neater install. Whilst you are at it you may aswell put on a coldside relocation kit.

    Don't bother going anywhere other than R-Tech, otherwise I will hunt you down and kill you.
    #6
  8. Jordysport
    Offline

    Jordysport Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2011
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Oct 16, 2011]
    Wow thats a massive restriction might have to get a DP.

    well there doesn't appear to be any boost leaks but it was a custom remap from a guy working at a porsche dealer. so it could just be a conservative map. but i may get the FMIC and just replumb everything and double check as there are silicone boost pipes on it atm.

    here i got under the car for you to show you the downpipe/decat join

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    #7
  9. Jordysport
    Offline

    Jordysport Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2011
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Oct 17, 2011]
    anyone seen this sort of exhaust setup before???
    #8
  10. Smokey_clark
    Offline

    Smokey_clark 12th Gear

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2010
    Messages:
    211
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Oct 17, 2011]
    Can't say i have but looks like you would still need a 3" DP with Decat as the bore of those de-cats looks quite small
    #9
  11. Prawn
    Offline

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2006
    Messages:
    9,875
    Likes Received:
    1,579
    [Oct 17, 2011]
    Dude, stop posting ****.

    You're talking about an A3, with a ko3S.

    Jordy has an S3, witha ko4. it's 100% different!

    232bhp from 1.18 bar doesn't sound too far off at all, it's fairly low boost yes, but the power sounds spot on for that boost level. if it's a conservative map, then it's not necessarily got a boost leak at all. it might just be requesting low boost.

    Your exhaust looks totally normal, standard ko4 downpipe, with a decat as you said it was. jardo is wrong, ko3 Downpipes / Cats are 1 piece, ko4 are totally different.

    FMIC on an S3 is also VERY easy, get a massive toyosports core, then a few 90 degree bends in alloy, a few in silicon, and you're away.
    #10
  12. s3schofield
    Offline

    s3schofield Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2009
    Messages:
    129
    Likes Received:
    4
    [Oct 17, 2011]
    ill have your de cat if you sell it lol
    #11
  13. Jordysport
    Offline

    Jordysport Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2011
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Oct 17, 2011]
    Thanks mate, for clearing that up, got me worried then. will get a 3" Downpipe, decat and keep my 2.5" system is that ok or will it not fit together. FMIC will be bought soon aswell, someone posted some links i will find them again (it was a toyosports one)

    and yes you may buy my decat after i've fitted the downpipe :p :p
    #12
  14. s3schofield
    Offline

    s3schofield Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2009
    Messages:
    129
    Likes Received:
    4
    [Oct 17, 2011]
    #13
  15. Jordysport
    Offline

    Jordysport Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2011
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Oct 17, 2011]
    Ok, just looking at a 3" Badger5 tip as the autobahn one is not 3"???? much advantage from swapping these out?

    that wasn't the Intercooler kit i was thinking of, it was one in a progress thread, i want to say welly or westy's
    #14
  16. superkarl
    Offline

    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2010
    Messages:
    7,868
    Likes Received:
    1,298
    [Oct 17, 2011]
    ALOT to be gained there! as a bolt on alone it has given 19hp in the past, and thats proven on the same dyno. second biggest bang for buck other than a remap.

    a big cone filter is more beneficial than a closed panel in a box, aftermarket panels are good dont get me wrong, but to get the most get a big cone, jetex is perfect because its big, its gauze so filters well, and its a dry none oiled type that wont destroy your maf.
    plus, why worry about hot air around your filter, when the turbo is heating the air up to god knows what regardless of the temp it goes in, thats what FMIC are for!

    theres good info in here regarding FMIC's, http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-forum-8l-chassis/119353-w3stys-progress-thread.html

    and for 3' dp and decats http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-forum-8l-chassis/131003-xs-power-downpipes-manifolds.html

    alternatively Pipeworx make very good downpipes. they are likely the makers of your decat too, i only know of 2 companies that actually make the decat alone.

    you'l then be ready for a stage 2 remap. you can expect anything as high as 280hp.
    #15
  17. 16Klappe
    Offline

    16Klappe RacecaR forward is RacecaR backwards. Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    5,774
    Likes Received:
    1,140
    [Oct 17, 2011]
    You're a jew.
    #16
  18. Jordysport
    Offline

    Jordysport Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2011
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Oct 17, 2011]
    Ok thank you, but it is not a standard TIP its a Autobahn Silicone one like i linked in the first post, i can understand why its so good from standard to the Badger one but from the Autobahn one? if its really worth it i will change it.

    stage 2 is only 42 bhp away and you need all of that just for that 42bhp (getting on for £1,000) would of expected more tbh as stage 1 is like 265 or so. so an extra £1000 for 15 bhp seems alot. or i could just get it mapped again bring the boost upto a proper stage 1.

    I think i will just sell the Autobahn and get a badger5 3" TIP and then a custom remap. gives the best bang for buck really, would be nice to see 265-270 out of that, and a load of torque. and if i was to spend more i'd just go straight to a big turbo conversion or engine conversions.

    am i right or misinformed?
    #17
  19. superkarl
    Offline

    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2010
    Messages:
    7,868
    Likes Received:
    1,298
    [Oct 17, 2011]
    its not just about headline figures.
    a stage 2 s3 has more power than a stage one MORE of the time. in fitting an intercooler and DP and getting it mapped to suit your making the power your getting last alot longer. so dont think of it as 15hp more for all that money. perhaps think of it as 15hp all the way through the rev range (it wont be quite that, but its a good way to put it)

    in regards to the 3' TIP, you will still see a massive difference over the autobahn or any other aftermarket, because they still taper down in size, the 3 inch tip is a straight 3 inch to the inlet. just as a reference, danes on here had the 3 inch tip fitted and with some minor tweaks had 270hp from a stage 1.

    your not misinformed at all, it takes a while to learn whats out there and whats right and wrong and what it gives.

    if i were you, id go to a specialist mapper i.e badger5 or R-Tech, and have a new stage 1 map put on, or a map put on for whatever mods you have. its not great not knowing whats on it and no idea of how its running, and obv its conservative as it is.

    if you are however adament about going stage2, get the supporting mods fitted (FMIC, 3 inch DP, 007p dump valve = essential, perhaps the 3' TIP) THEN get it mapped straight to stage 2 level.

    i think renewing a your stage 1 map is a good idea with a 3" TIP, and you might see 270hp in the hands of the right tuner and a bit of luck.

    you also speak of a 'custom' remap, alot more expensive than generic stage 1 + 2, they are used for unique 1 off set ups i.e big turbos, hybrid turbos etc etc. a stage 1 from a good tuner will be enough, some tuners are able to put their own minor tweaks on these too.

    i've rambled on enough now. i've given you all i know lol.
    #18
  20. Jordysport
    Offline

    Jordysport Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2011
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Oct 17, 2011]
    Hi Karl thanks for your info,

    My main goal isn't max power, its just to get the car as quick as possible for the most efficient use of my money and in NEEDS to be reliable. i use it on a daily basis and unlike some this is my daily my weekend toy is my motorbike so reliability is crucial. but i am an motorsport engineer and i NEED to tinker with it, modifications here and there, and if necessary custom components as i have the equipment and contacts to do that for next to nothing.

    Well funny you should say that i am going to go to Badger5 RR day 30th October and going to just spectate get a jist of what they do and get them to check over the car make sure everything is ok. i've had it on a RR last W/e here are the graphs:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    IF stage 2 gives me a more reliable power and smoother deliver then i will go for that. yes we all like that experience of massive turbo boost but its difficult to drive it quickly having to keep it on boost. i would love mine to have a bit bigger power band its a bit slow after 5k and nothing untill 2.5k.

    I ALWAYS have custom remaps, its the best way to get the optimum out of each engine as there all so different and likewise the mods.

    So basically the mods on it atm are not the most ideal, i'd be best taking them all off and starting from scratch ie:

    - Ebay FMIC kit £180
    - 007p Dump valve (rather than my current one) £78
    - 3" XS Power Downpipe + Decat pipe £300
    - 3" Back exhaust (Custom - local to me) £100
    - Badger 5 3" TIP £150
    - Jetex Filter with heatshield £70
    - Custom remap £400

    then sell the old parts for about £350 or so

    So £900 on top to get it to 285 bhp and some killer torque,

    Does anyone have any graphs of the Stage 2 to compare to mine just so i can see the power band.
    thanks
    jords
    #19
  21. Broken Byzan
    Offline

    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2004
    Messages:
    12,777
    Likes Received:
    325
    [Oct 17, 2011]
    The comparison runs were done on the same car, on the same rollers and the car in question had a silicone TIP on it already, once the Badger5 tip was swapped in the car gained due to increased airflow.

    AB88 is just a clone of almost everyothe silicone TIP inc well known brands
    #20
  22. Jordysport
    Offline

    Jordysport Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2011
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Oct 17, 2011]
    Ok so the mods on it atm are pretty ****, will get them changed for the proper stuff.
    #21
  23. superkarl
    Offline

    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2010
    Messages:
    7,868
    Likes Received:
    1,298
    [Oct 18, 2011]
    i might see you there then! its not that your mods are ****. but until bill brought the 3" inch tip out no one had a clue there was so much to be gained. i think even bill was surprised.

    if you want relatively reliable power then stage 2 is perfect. i want the same.
    hardware is the easy bit, its the tuner thats vital!

    the 3" inch TIP itself produces loads more top end, thats where its benefits are, holds boost and torque for longer.

    torque you'l be looking at sub 300, around 280 maybe a little more, but again its not all about numbers.

    westys build thread i posted earlier is great for stage 2 info, some graphs in there too i think.

    il give you more to read if you like haha, its all i seem to do!......

    http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-forum-8l-chassis/109356-3inch-tip-tests-danes-s3-today.html
    http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-forum-8l-chassis/121266-expected-stage-2-bhp-torque.html
    http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-...ht-mechanics-badger-5-tip.html?highlight=fmic

    and perhaps some really awesome music to enjoy in the process:
    Incubus - Glass - YouTube
    #22
  24. badger5
    Offline

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

    Joined:
    May 28, 2004
    Messages:
    7,554
    Likes Received:
    793
    [Oct 18, 2011]
    Badger5 TIP gains were relative to the Silicon TIP which was on the car already. ie it gained over and above the Silicon TIP. All the silicon TIPs thus far until the Badger5 80mm and 3" predecessor, were modelled on the stock TIP's, just slightly bigger, but not where it matters and certainly not in the same girth. The B5 TIP also has billet turbo adaptor, which is significantly different to other "hi-flow" TIPs advertised.

    Example B5 next to stock item
    [​IMG]

    Previous 3" TIP comparison next to the typical "silicon" TIP (brand is irrelevant, they all look 99% the same)
    [​IMG]

    Some comparison figures..
    V1 3" TIP had ID of 73mm, csa=4183mm^2
    V2 80mm TIP ID of 80mm, csa=5024mm^2

    V2 has internal bore area some 20% larger over the V1, and the V1 has made +19bhp/20g/s gains over and above the "normal" Silicon TIP
    #23
  25. Jordysport
    Offline

    Jordysport Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2011
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Oct 18, 2011]
    Wow, thats very impressive, will certainly look at doing that. am popping down on the 30th would you be able to fit the B5 TIP then and there, before and after if you need more data. and what is the price fitted? and price just supplied?

    Thanks
    jords

    oh and does anyone else's crunch slightly when going into 2nd from cold? but perfect when warm?
    #24
  26. badger5
    Offline

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

    Joined:
    May 28, 2004
    Messages:
    7,554
    Likes Received:
    793
    [Oct 18, 2011]
    LOL @ more data.. but I'm fine thanks.. >150 of these sold this year, with shed loads of data before I started to sell them (I test everything I make and design) - Lots of assorted forums with owners posting their gains.. Its a well proven item.

    Time on dyno days is limited so probably not possible to fit... and if you want a before after its Dyno - pay for after if you want to see the difference. Not something I can accomodate on a dyno day (too busy)

    Sticky thread in my Badger5 Section is here> http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/badger...tip-for1-8t-audi-s3-tt-seat-leon-cupra-r.html

    Blue in stock currently.
    regards
    bill
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2011
    #25
  27. Welly
    Offline

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    10,699
    Likes Received:
    119
    [Oct 18, 2011]
    Can't argue with the man Jardo, everything he said was right! lol :thumbsup:

    That's an interesting statement.
    #26
  28. superkarl
    Offline

    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2010
    Messages:
    7,868
    Likes Received:
    1,298
    [Oct 18, 2011]
    Best not go there eh lol
    #27
  29. 16Klappe
    Offline

    16Klappe RacecaR forward is RacecaR backwards. Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    5,774
    Likes Received:
    1,140
    [Oct 18, 2011]
    Word, I hate it when he is ALWAYS right.
    #28
  30. Welly
    Offline

    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    10,699
    Likes Received:
    119
    [Oct 18, 2011]
    Go where? :whistle2:
    #29
  31. Jordysport
    Offline

    Jordysport Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2011
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Oct 19, 2011]
    Looks like i might be selling already :( :( :( the fuel consumption is just Hugeee don't think i can afford just to run it to and fro, getting about 20 mpg on short runs, may have to go for a performance diesel and triple that mpg. soo gutted as i love the car.
    #30
  32. leeds_182
    Offline

    leeds_182 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
    Messages:
    121
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Oct 19, 2011]
    If you get 60mpg from a performance diesel I'd be impressed. When you drive them quickly the mpg soon drops,
    #31
  33. Jordysport
    Offline

    Jordysport Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2011
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Oct 19, 2011]
    yeah but i drive the s3 very carefully not going above 2-3k for 20mpg return aint great, i am going to keep trying to survive but don't know how much longer i can keep it.
    #32
  34. leeds_182
    Offline

    leeds_182 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
    Messages:
    121
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Oct 19, 2011]
    That's pretty low. I get between 25 and 30 in mine around town. I wonder if yours is lower due to the decat and other mods.
    #33
  35. Jordysport
    Offline

    Jordysport Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2011
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Oct 19, 2011]
    yea and its only short runs so its when its cold.
    #34
  36. superkarl
    Offline

    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2010
    Messages:
    7,868
    Likes Received:
    1,298
    [Oct 19, 2011]
    if its short runs get on your bike!! :)
    #35
  37. Jordysport
    Offline

    Jordysport Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2011
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Oct 20, 2011]
    Yea but its cold outside :( and i need to get into my leathers to use my bike. :(
    #36
  38. Jordysport
    Offline

    Jordysport Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2011
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Nov 20, 2011]
    Hi guys,

    Well the Car is in the garage atm (mates rates) 150 miles away back in devon, and having the clutch done as the CSC went on it so its now having:

    Lightened Single Mass Flywheel G60
    Uprated Friction Plate (VR6) rated to 450Nm
    Valeo VR6 Friction Plate

    and on the way found it needed the following:

    New Front Discs and Pads
    New Wishbone Bush
    New Ball Joint
    New CV Gaitor Kit
    New Upper Outer Cambelt Cover
    New Set of Audi RS4 Alloys
    2x New Falken FK452 tyres.

    !!!!!! its ok tho its not too expensive the total is £1000 including labour. anyway i am looking at FMIC's, the pipework is irrelevent for me as i am going to make my own out of stainless 2.25" and only use silicone for joins. Now i am looking at FMIC's and does anyone have any thoughts on these: eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace
    Toyosports one like Westy but a bit bigger but not outrageously big. 55cmx22.5cmx6.4cm
    #37
  39. Dani_B19
    Offline

    Dani_B19 Audi-sports own special child.

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2008
    Messages:
    7,304
    Likes Received:
    90
    [Nov 20, 2011]
    You sure that clutch and flywheel setup will work? Thought that was only possible on the a3's, not our s3's?
    #38
  40. Jordysport
    Offline

    Jordysport Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2011
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Nov 20, 2011]
    Well it fits on and works fine, was said to be for an S3.
    #39
  41. aragorn
    Offline

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2008
    Messages:
    15,852
    Likes Received:
    350
    [Nov 21, 2011]
    Its smaller than the standard clutch though...

    S3 stock clutch is 240mm, the VR6/G60 combo is 228mm.
    #40

Share This Page