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Help with spec on S3 8P 2007 engine Rebuild

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by Aidens S3, Jun 25, 2012.

  1. Aidens S3
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    Aidens S3 New Member

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    [Jun 25, 2012]
    [h=4]HI all ,

    Im new to this site ,

    I am on my second time rebuilding my engine du to pistons i will up load pics this week,

    what are do's and don'ts in this rebuild im looking at getting the most out of my engine and could do with some advice.

    all comments welcome

    Thanks

    Aiden[/h]
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  3. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Jun 25, 2012]
    Hi Aiden,

    First thing is what happened to the first and second sets of pistons?

    Next,what are you looking to get out of the engine?

    Anything over 440bhp/440lbs will require a full bottom end rebuild and I can give you all the info you might need for over 500bhp.

    Let me know what happened to your engine and what's on it at the moment and we can go from there.
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  4. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Jun 27, 2012]
    No reply?....if you give a bit more information or some sort of reply,it would be useful.
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  5. Aidens S3
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    Aidens S3 New Member

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    [Jun 27, 2012]
    first set blew due to my inlet manifold flap geting stuck open in cylinder 3 !!!

    had a engine rebuild with forged pistons and rods

    the problum now is in cylinder 4 ! my forged piston melted think this is my timeing ?!?! but will soon know

    but du to the above i now have the car in bits and am putting it back as strong as pos starting with valves any tips on dos and donts?
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  6. Kelza
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    Kelza MODERATOR Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 27, 2012]
    Hi first thing would be to get the block checked out and start from there heres a set of standard pistons etc .good luck..
    BHZ S3 8P RODS AND PISTONS.
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  7. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Jun 28, 2012]
    Aiden.....

    Melting a piston takes some doing.

    Advancing the timing would certainly make it run hot,but what else are you running on the engine?

    Is it remapped ,what boost level are you running,and who set it up?

    Have you altered the timing and fuelling?

    All that aside,if you've melted a piston,you need to have the engine stripped and examined as s3kel has said,as the bore could be scored,and there could be other damage.

    Who's doing all this work for you?
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2012
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  8. Aidens S3
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    Aidens S3 New Member

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    [Jul 3, 2012]
    S3Alex

    Full Milltek exhaust system (Including down pipe)


    Blitz Dump Valve

    Fully forged engine (wossner)

    Stage 3 ECU remap (400bhp - 400FPT) (151 dynos)

    Forged short shifter

    Forged left to right.

    K 4 Hi-bread turbo and also Garret T28/34 back hi bread (as per first setup but to much lag!!!)

    3 x defi gages (Boost gage (1.7 Bar) Engine temp gage & oil pressure gage)

    upraterd - fuel pumps - intercolers - RS4 injecters

    Custom built engine mounts ( From USA)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjM2VJNDLxE this is the car before the extra 25 BHP was gained

    Its been remaped many times!!

    I Was running 1.5/1.7 Bar of boost big boost but thort it was able!?!? for a reason the care had split pipes and intercoller so fixed it and when i drove up the road it went streat to 2.7 bar of bost and defi gage cut out so must have been boosting 3bar?!?!

    I have a firm in the uk rebuliding from scrach nw. boreing to 83mm

    Any Advice ?




    And yes Scored is right its being fixed nw also need new oil Pump turbo and waiting on rest of list
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  9. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Jul 3, 2012]
    Just a few thoughts here.....the TFSi uses a diverter valve,not a dump valve,as it diverts air back into the intake system after the MAF sensor.

    The remap....whose software are you using?
    The basic spec sounds fine,and those are a good choice of pistons.

    If you were thinking of a better setup,then a GTX3071 kit would be best,but you will need a new manifold for that,and downpipe,plus wastegate and dump tube.

    You've described the intercooler and boost pipes as being split,and once you'd replaced/fixed them,the car went straight to 2.7bar boost....I think this is your problem.

    It would explain firstly why the pipes/intercooler split,and also how you've managed to hole a piston,with excessive boost and almost certainly lean running and very high EGTs on the turbo setup you had.

    Once this is rebuilt,I would suggest getting someone who's done this work before to set the engine up properly on both the real road,and a rolling road,before putting any real boost on it at all.

    The car's ECU should not permit boost beyond 1.7bar without Stg4 software and an external boost controller,so as I've said,this is where the problem lies.
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  10. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Jul 3, 2012]
    Another thing......as you're using a hybrid K04,I'm assuming this is internally wastegated(as it normally would be).

    A stuck actuator,or wastegate can result in excessive boost levels,and this could be the root cause of your problems,and is certainly one reason why most Stg3 builds use externally wastegated turbos.


    Even a hybrid K04 will be pushed to get much beyond 400bhp,so I'd think that the combination of excessive boost,and a relatively small turbo has resulted in very high EGTs and the holed piston.


    If you get it properly rebuilt,then my advice would be to use a proper turbo kit(ATP/BSH or similar)externally wastegated GTX3071,which will have almost the same lag as the stock turbo,and get the mapping done properly.
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2012
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  11. Aidens S3
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    Aidens S3 New Member

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    [Jul 4, 2012]
    S3 Alex

    Yes the company I was using put a Dumpvalve on it :L

    I'm not 100% sure on the software I use a Alien tech to download and upload ? For my new set up I am going to go with Revo I think..Yes I was'nt happy with the K04 hybread it didnt last long idir, I am happy with the garret 28 but it seems my engine isnt...

    The compresion was 9.5.1 seem abit high comparing it to other bulids most people seem to be going for 8.5.1 any Suggestions ?
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  12. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Jul 4, 2012]
    Ok.

    It should NOT have a dump valve.

    It should be a diverter valve such as the Forge DV as the system on this engine is designed to recirculate air and not dump it on a closed throttle.

    If you use a dump valve then the ECU will make false assumptions on the air and fuelling ratios.

    From what you've said next it sounds as if you've used a laptop and unknown software .... Did you do this yourself and set the values?
    If so that's a recipe for the sort of trouble you've had.

    Is the Garrett on the car now,and is it a simple bolt on replacement for the K04 because you shouldn't really be using that sort of thing.

    The CR is fine.

    Mine uses the stock CR and runs around 500 bhp.
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2012
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  13. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Jul 4, 2012]
    I'd seriously question what has been done previously.

    You need to have someone who actually knows what he's doing to sort the mapping and ancillaries on this engine.

    It could be argued that any good mechanic can fit the internals but mapping and so on should be left to those who've done it before.

    Fitting a dump valve is a good example
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  14. Aidens S3
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    Aidens S3 New Member

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    [Jul 5, 2012]
    I sent it to a pro the first time i had no dv and a boost controller once this piston went they changed to the K04 and DV, my boost was reading higher then it feels the car was showing 2bar on the K04 but felt like it was only doing 1/1.2Bar and i already said what happend once we put the Garrett on the car Again,and is was not a simple bolt on replacement for the K04 had to get custom flange and take 3" off the downpipe so was complacted all feeds were done custom (Oil & Air)

    From what i have read the main prob of gettting the S3 8P above 450BHP is the low pres fuel rail but in USA they have got around it
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  15. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Jul 5, 2012]
    Ok Aiden.

    There's no way a K04 should be able to sustain 2bar or more without trouble.

    On the fuelling side,I know.
    Mine runs a USP pump and turns out a conservative 500ish bhp.
    This setup is good for 600 bhp but to get near that you need a LOT more put into the car.

    A Hybrid K04 will still have problems getting much beyond 400bhp unless you're looking at one of Loba's (costly but good ) models.

    As before,my advice is to find a good tuner who's done one of these before and stay away from people who fit dump valves.

    None of the proper kits are cheap,but they do work and without the costly problems youve encountered.
    Good software is essential and Revo I think provide the best for this,but it needs to be properly set up.
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  16. Aidens S3
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    Aidens S3 New Member

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    [Jul 6, 2012]
    Thanks S3alex

    when you say a LOT more put into the car?? what elce will i be needing ?

    I am going to go with back draft motorsport (BDM) for tuning (Agents for revo) i was with Sanspeed but not geting a good fead back with is a shame as thay looked after the car for last 5 years!! hopeing that BDM will do more .

    The K04 was just to run in the new internels (Didnt go so well!!!)

    Your are being a gr8 help thanks for this also here is a pic of the 2nd piston in bits :-(

    Thanks again

    Aiden

    I have a good starting point but need to no how to take it to the next level
    [​IMG]
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  17. Aidens S3
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    Aidens S3 New Member

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    [Jul 6, 2012]
    How do i add a pic????
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  18. Kelza
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    Kelza MODERATOR Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jul 6, 2012]
    Hi mate use photobucket to loads pictures ,them load picture in one of the boxes above,in reply box :)
    #17
  19. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Jul 6, 2012]
    If you use Photobucket and link from there.
    Backdraft have a good reputation and I have never heard anything to the contrary,plus they have extensive experience with BT builds.

    I don't know which part of the country you're in,but I can also recommend AMDEssex,who've built mine to a very high standard,as well as being totally reliable.

    As to the rest of this.....apart from the internals,which are being looked at and some bits being replaced and fixed,you would need a decent BT kit,and I would recommend either the BSH GTX3071 kit,or the ATP GTX3071 kit,both of which come with a manifold,and external Tial waste gate.

    The GTX3071 is good for around 550bhp,and being honest,whilst it is possible to get more,the injectors will not go much beyond that,and then you're into the realms of things like a Sorenson manifold,extra injectors and an off-board ECU to control that lot.

    It's serious hassle,and serious cost and beyond what most of us would think useful.

    You will also need a proper boost controller like the Gizzmo or Turbosmart,and Revo Stg3 or 4 software.

    In addition you need an auxiliary in-tank fuel pump for anything over 440bhp and the USP Motorsports pump is the one I and several others use.

    There will be other bits and bobs,but you can also read my build thread for a list.

    Rough prices.....kits will be around £3-4k,and the other bits like the controller and pump will take another £1k,plus you will need fabrication and fitting,as these kits are not quite UK friendly.

    I assume you've done the brakes,suspension and handling,as if you haven't,do them before you go anywhere near this,or you'll have an evil handling ditch-finder.

    Brakes ...£2k, suspension....£1200,and so on.
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  20. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Jul 6, 2012]
    This isn't a quite a full list but it may help...

    http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-...-time-build-thread-big-turbo.html#post1556971

    I forgot to ask what clutch you're using,but you can bet on needing a mother of a clutch like a Spec Stg3+ or similar as anything less will be ruined.

    These are about £1200 plus fitting.

    And.....a big intercooler is a must as is a water meth kit so that is about the rest of what you should need.
    It's not worth trying to make whats left from the previous turbos work as neither would get you much beyond 420 bhp hence the 2 kits I mentioned.

    I have the ATP kit and the BSH is also good but as I've said both require a bit of work to fit a RHD car.
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2012
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  21. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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