Help! Running Rough, Engine Light nightmare...

[le19h]

I am after some advice on the engine light, running rough issue and the current situation.... (I know there are fairly similar posts such as - http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/showthread.php?t=79491) - however, I would be interested in your advice and thoughts on my situation -
J7USS - Would be great to hear from you, sounds like you had something similar.

Essentially - Engine Light On - Audi Diagnosed following part replacements;

Part Number

A06A 129 101 D - Valve
A06A 103 247 - Housing

Which were taken to a Just VW car specialist in Coventry in July - to resolve the running rough issue - i believe the above parts were fitted, along with the following parts list (All in cost £700);

Injectors - 89.43
Ignition Coil - 27.91
Breather Tube - 18.99
Oil Filter - 8.95
Hose - 4.53
Valve - 20.31
Oil Pipe - 62.39
Oil Pump - 97.43
Seal Ring & Suction Pipe - 10.00
Oil and Flush - 35.00

Following the above visit the engine light came on again - took it back to said VW specialist to be told that the error codes were Carb & sensor related, however, it needed more time to run in so they cleared the codes and away i went...

The light appeared again... so the car went back to said specialist, to be told that after 1 week of them having the car -

"The car has come to us with a running fault and engine management light on. During the initial inspection of the vehicle, we have noticed that the oil cap cannot be removed with the engine running due to excessive vacuum pressure in the engine, which indicates the engine is breathing very heavily. Also noted is that the coolant system is pressuring and bubbling which indicates a coolant circulation problem.
A head gasket test was carried out to further investigate the issue, the result of this was a change in colour from blue to yellow/green indicating a possible head gasket fault.
The cylinder head was then removed, along with the engine breather system, pipework, block breather etc. The engine breather was found to be clogged due to engine sludging and carbon build up, which caused excessive pressure in the breather system. The complete engine breather system needs replacing.
The cylinder head shows signs of carbon/sludging on the valve seats and running up the valve stems, especially on cylinder 3. The cylinder head was sent away to an engineering company who have found all exhaust valve guides to be badly worn, they suspect the exhaust valves have not been closing correctly. The cylinder head requires new valve guides and a head reface due to a slight warp on the head face, caused by the coolant circulation issue.
The water pump was removed and the impellor found to be broken, causing overheating issues due to the coolant not circulating properly.
The catalytic converter has been checked and found to be all present and correct.
On the rear of the cylinder head the secondary air valve seems to have been removed previously as it has paint marks on it. The vacuum pipe inlet on the secondary air valve is damaged and has previously just been pushed back on. The inlet pipe was found to be bent.
The above issues also caused the oil pump and injector issues that we have previously dealt with."

There are now 2 options - 1.) Car re-built and return for £0 or 2.) Repair the car - parts list below (yes you'll notice duplicates of the work above) for approx £1800. (Which includes the Cylinder head, which already sent away to a third party for inspection and clean up)


058 103 383 Q - GASKET - 30.12
06A 103 385 A - SCREWHEAD (x10) - 35.50
058 198 217 - SET OF SEALS - 5.42
038 103 085 C - SEAL - 15.27
058 198 025 A - CAM COVER GASKET - 17.83
06B 103 469 BA - 61.60
036 109 675 A - VALVE SEAL (x20) - 62.20
058 129 717 D - GASKET - 3.10
058 253 039 L - GASKET - 4.93
037 121 687 - WASHER - 1.76
06B 121 070 H - PIPE - 36.63
06B 121 111 K - THERMOSTAT - 46.00
06B 103 663 G - FUNNEL - 2.86
06A 253 039 E - GASKET - 2.32
058 145 757 C - GASKET - 1.81
06B 145 771 P - OIL PIPE - 62.39
8D0 253 115 - GASKET - 7.66
1H0 253 115 - GASKET - 4.93
06A 121 012 X - WATER PUMP - 31.68
06B 198 119 A - REPAIR KIT - 79.31
06B 131 101 K - VALVE - 79.42
078 131 120 K - GASKET - 1.81
078 131 120 M - GASKET - 0.69
06B 133 784 R - HOSE - 2.72
06B 133 607 N - PIPE - 39.00
058 133 785 B - ANGLED HOSE - 6.61
058 133 607 D - CONNECTING PIPE - 17.27
035 103 245 G - VALVE - 6.28
06A 103 247 - HOUSING - 2.86
06A 115 405 BS - BRACKET - 74.15
06A 115 441 J - GASKET - 5.63
038 117 070 A - SEAL - 2.82
035 906 149 A - O RING (x8) - 21.44
06A 103 213 F - BREATHERTUBE - 18.76
037 121 142 A - RETAINING SPRING - 0.53
N 904 673 01 - O RING - 3.03
06B 103 221 G - HOSE - 4.53
06B 103 213 T - TUBE - 32.17
06B 103 493 M - HOSE - 7.03
06B 103 221 H - HOSE - 5.12

Really just need some advice on the current issue and situation if possible - I am not mechanically and dont really understand the mechanics - however, for a car that was running a little rough, with performance and MPG still good, 88 parts and £2500 seems a little excessive?!

Thoughts on Cit Advice / Indp Review / Legal Advice?

Your time and effort is very mcuh appreciated, thank you in advance.

 

[Broken Byzan]

Sorry that seems a very concise and probably accurate quote. They have given you good reasons for the failiures there. The sludging issue is a common one sadly, usualyy attributed to mixing oils/incorrect oils/longlife services/ driving stlye.

A used engine of the same spec will probably cost you £1200 as the fault is so common they hold thier value

 

[docurley]

I would say the basics should have been looked at first like sparkplugs and gapping then may be MAF and check the injector loom as these have been known to cause shorts.

 

[docurley]

Sorry that seems a very concise and probably accurate quote. They have given you good reasons for the failiures there. The sludging issue is a common one sadly, usualyy attributed to mixing oils/incorrect oils/longlife services/ driving stlye.

A used engine of the same spec will probably cost you £1200 as the fault is so common they hold thier value

But a easy fault to fake as we all know they suffer from that but oil pressure light would have come on or some sort of sign from VAG of low oil pressure which his car never showed any signs.

 

[Broken Byzan]

True

I am sure by looking at the components in their stripped down state, even the untrained eye could see the sludge. Maybe it's worth taking a look at the bits, or taking some pics and posting on here....

 

[aragorn]

In my opinion it cant be ALL those issues causing the problem. There are quite a few seperate things going on.

For instance, why did it never overheat with a broken water pump?

If the valve guides were humped, it would be ******* oil out the exhaust...

The usual sludge wouldnt cause the engine to run badly, it would purr along happily then self destruct, like many others on here.

If the breather was found to be blocked the second time, why didnt they notice this when they replaced the breather parts the first time round?

Theres also no information on any of the fault codes found at any of the stages, although audi's first diagnosis was to replace the pancake valve and housing, indicating they thaught it was a breather issue.

I'm always skeptical of garages, and in this case, all these faults just dont add up.

As for the best approach now? Well if you personally trust this garage then the sensible option would be to get it fixed. If you dont, it might be worth getting a second opinion. If it was me, i wouldnt be buying the parts from Audi, i'd be using an engine parts company, as its likely to be a lot cheaper.

To give you an example, i baught a 1600 16v engine from a corsa a few years back which turned out the have blown piston rings and knackered valve guides. The engineering shop took just over £200 to fit new bronze guides the the head (all 16, not just the exhaust ones), the total job including all labour parts and suchlike, and including stripping the bottom end down to replace the piston rings, came to £700. Now granted, a lot of this labour was done on the cheap as a cash deal, but even if you double the labour figure, your still not at the astronimical levels your talking about here.

Personally, i'd find out who has the cylinder head, and pay them directly the money to rebuild the head for you, using their own suppliers for the guides etc. Then take your newly refurbished head, and the broken car, somewhere else to have it checked over and put back together with new parts as required.

 

[le19h]

Thanks for your responses, very helpful - I am off to speak to the garage today to go through the report and parts list in detail with causes - will see if i can get the error codes, but doubt this likely - will update you later on any progress. However, aragorn - I agree, even being mechanically minded, this doesnt stack up. (Which is the same conclusion of Audi Stratford and Audi Coventry)

 

[le19h]

Just found the below fault diag from the original visit - does this make sense?

"After further investigation we found your vehicle to be low on oil pressure. This is caused by sludging within the engine and the blocking of oil pick up and suction pipes. This also then has a knock on effect which wears down the oil pump. To rectify this we have removed the sump, cleaned out as much sludging as possible, replaced oil pump, pick up pipe and various small valves that can cause blocking. The total bill including the initial faulty injectors (which we now believe was as a result of the low oil pressure) is £803.61. In light of the initial inconvenience caused to yourself I am happy to apply a 20% discount to our labour charges and 10% discount to the parts charges making the final total £699.50."

 

[docurley]

Injecters nacked dues to low oil pressure!!!!!

What on earth does oil presure got to do with injectors!!!

The words ball siht and mug come to mind:Flush:

 

[J7USS]

hmmmm something smells Fishy!