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Help Needed... Haldex Performance Controller Gen 4 Upgrade?

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by kinson, Jan 21, 2010.

  1. kinson
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    kinson Member

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    [Jan 21, 2010]
    I've got my 2009 S3 SB (8PA) for > 6 months now really enjoyed driving the car every moment. However this is technically a Front Wheel Drive (FWD) vehicle unless the front lose traction. Understand that Haldex has an upgraded unit which allows driver to switch between F9/R1 (the stock setting), F5/R5 & F3/R7.

    Wonder if anyone here tried upgrading the unit and most grateful if you could kindly share you view/opinion/experience (good and bad) with me...
    #1
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  3. DeckedS3
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    DeckedS3 Active Member

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    [Jan 21, 2010]
    I'm not sure where you got the info on regarding the F/R ratio's, but you can't get more than 50% drive though the rear wheels. I had the performance controller on the R32 and it just changes the sensitivity and the amount of load to put towards the rear wheels, You can also get it to stay engaged on deceleration as well. That's my understanding on it anyway.
    http://www.goapr.com.au/products/Info_gen4.pdf
    It is something I plan on doing with the gen 4
    And they are going to do a wireless unti to change the settings.
    [​IMG]
    #2
  4. N8
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    N8 Kowalski Details VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 21, 2010]
    Made my cousin's handling amazing on his TT Mk1, but £500 is okay, £1100 is £££££
    #3
  5. kinson
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    kinson Member

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    [Jan 21, 2010]
    I could well be wrong about the F/R ratio, so are you happy with the Gen 2 Haldex? Would you recommend this upgrade to a friend?
    #4
  6. DeckedS3
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    DeckedS3 Active Member

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    [Jan 21, 2010]
    I only had it on the Gen1 in R32. Gen 2 owners seem to like the upgrade too. I too have the gen4 in my S3 and I've been waiting for the Gen4 upgrade. I would recommend the upgrade for anyone who drives fast! lol
    #5
  7. KeepItTidy
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    KeepItTidy Member

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    [Jan 21, 2010]
    AFAIK, the car will never runn at 100% FWD... even on smooth flat roads. so its technically not a FWD :)
    #6
  8. DeckedS3
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    DeckedS3 Active Member

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    [Jan 23, 2010]
    Kinson, Have you found anyone that stocks the Gen4 upgrade yet?
    #7
  9. RonS3
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    RonS3 Member

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    [Jan 23, 2010]
    I was considering this mod for my S3, the only thing I'm unsure about is the potential reliabilty impact on the haldex unit itself. Not sure how it works in detail but as I understand it it's not a differential but some sort of clutch unit that only engages when slip occurs on the front wheels i.e. effectively the car is front wheel drive for the vast majority of the time, with the clutch engaging occasionally when four wheel drive is required. Presumably to create permanent four wheel drive this requires constant use of the haldex rather than occasional??
    #8
  10. tcardio
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    tcardio Active Member

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    [Jan 23, 2010]
    HPA has the GenIV stealth version. Call Nik at HPA motorsport. I think HGP is your source but I don't know anyone there. The Gen IV combined with the DSG flash changes the driving characteristics in a very positive manner. The car drives fantastic and I would say beasty around corners. It's 60/40 in the sport mode and 50/50 in the race mode and wireless is coming. HPA has put alot of work into the DSG flash and works directly with VW of America who frequently call Marcel for opinions. I am not a fan of Giac but will not state any specifics at this time. APR will take another year to put theirs on the market but it will not be reverse engineered and will be a specific flash to each car programmed. IMO, these two mods are the best bang for the buck for the A3/S3 along with an ECU flash. my 0.02
    #9
  11. LWNY
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    LWNY Member

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    [Jan 24, 2010]
    The Gen IV unit looks just like the Gen II. Are there any reason they were made to look exactly like each other? Are they just the same unit? If not, then why make them look the same, where Gen IV Haldex owners might mistakenly install a Gen II unit.
    #10
  12. tcardio
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    tcardio Active Member

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    [Jan 25, 2010]
    [​IMG] Hope the picture is not a fail. HPA didn't know 2009.5's had the GEN IV. I ordered the GEN II and tried to fit it but....surprise it was a different setup. This is a picture of the GEN IV
    #11
  13. kinson
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    kinson Member

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    [Jan 25, 2010]
    So have you installed and test drove it? Could you kindly share a few comments here?
    #12
  14. DeckedS3
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    DeckedS3 Active Member

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    [Jan 25, 2010]
    Ditto, would love to know what anyone thinks of it.
    #13
  15. LWNY
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    LWNY Member

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    [Jan 25, 2010]
    So the front side of the Gen IV looks exactly the same as the Gen II? The rear side looks completely different. It looks like it is just a firmware upgrade now w/o the so called enhanced valving unit that goes into the hot oilbath.
    #14
  16. tcardio
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    tcardio Active Member

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    [Jan 25, 2010]
    #15
  17. Dandle
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    Dandle Member

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    [Jan 25, 2010]
    Thats not how it works. Haldex does indeed use a clutch pack to connect the rear axle to the front axlw in effect but varies the amount of power it transfers depending on certain conditions. The slip you hear people talk about and mentioned on Haldexs site isnt wheels spin like alot of people think but a difference in torque between the front and rear axles. If you imagine the front wheels being driven and the rears wheels being pulled along then you have a difference in torque across the axles. This is what haldex senses and with various other inputs with close the clutch pack to even out the torque difference. Even driving in a straight line there is power being sent to the rear wheels but as soon as you accelrate or enter a corner the system will close the clutch pack and send more aft. Its not on and off like a switch although there are times when the system will disengage such as zero throttle input or under hard braking.
    #16
  18. kinson
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    kinson Member

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    [Mar 19, 2010]
    have ordered the gen iv haldex and going to get it installed sometime before easter (hopefully)...
    but then some of my friends worried that s3's rear end wasn't going to sustain the torque transfer... wonder if fellow members may share their experience?
    #17
  19. LWNY
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    LWNY Member

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    [Mar 19, 2010]
    The 3.2 has just as much torque and HP as the S3, so we are not talking about uncharted territories here.

    If the surface is slippery and maximum power is transferred to the rear, then there is no wear and tear on the clutch anymore since it is completely engaged.

    The only time maximum torque percentage is going to be transferred is when the front is on a slippery surface, that is when the rear wheels sustain most of the torque from the engine. But even then, the clutch is fully closed.

    This unit is not based on viscous coupling, which requires the fluid to get hot and sticky in order for the transfer of power to the rear wheels.
    #18
  20. tcardio
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    tcardio Active Member

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    [Mar 19, 2010]
    ^^^ word!

    Take a look at HPA website. Marcel comments on the tolerances of the DSG gearbox and clutch. Doubt many people are running those types of numbers
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2010
    #19
  21. kinson
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    kinson Member

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    [Mar 27, 2010]
    well... i've just got the haldex performance controller installed today. first impression?! FANTASTIC!!!:jump:
    i will highly recommend this mod to any fellow s3 owners. :icon_thumright: even before installing the coilovers, the improvement is seen right away!!! in race mode.. the car is much smoother and more controllable when turning-in in tight corners....

    i read three graphs in the here showing the torque transfer to rear in different mode... whilst the y-axis is relatively easy to understand, i've no idea what the x-axis represents... wonder if i may seek some guidance here? secondly, whilst putting the device on race mode is real fun, wonder how that's going to affect the durability of the driveline parts?
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2010
    #20
  22. tcardio
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    tcardio Active Member

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    [Mar 29, 2010]
    now get yourself a set of H&R front and rear sways and just grin
    #21
  23. adymcd
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    adymcd Member

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    [Mar 29, 2010]
    Where did you get the unit installed? Is this the upgraded unit people talk about, if so what is the difference with the upgraded one?
    #22
  24. kinson
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    kinson Member

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    [Mar 29, 2010]
    Since I live in Hong Kong, so I had ordered the Haldex Controller Unit through a local shop and have them installed it for me. One of the owners had the upgrade in his previous R32, which was still in Generation II. So I trusted his experience...

    The main difference is that now I get more torque transfer to the back and since I had to go up a spiral driveway (2 1/2 circles) everytime I park the car... I used to feel the force pulling me to the outside, guess it is the G-force, in the stock Haldex controller. But when I put the upgraded controller into Race mode, i.e. more torque transferred to the back, I notice there is more "push" force and I can go up the driveway faster, smoother without the feeling of being pulled outside...
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2010
    #23
  25. NY_Sportback
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    NY_Sportback Member

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    [Mar 29, 2010]
    I had the Gen II upgrade installed on my 2007 3.2Q sportback, the day I installed it I drove on some sharp twisties I used to frequent with multple s-bend turns and the first thing I noticed is I went from mild understeer when pushing hard to mild oversteer, acceleration from a standstill was improved dramatically but I did lose 1-2 MPG's on long trip. I didn't get the switch so it was always in sport mode, my guess is the switch would remedy this since you could switch back to stock.
    It also looks like the Gen IV has an economy mode so curios to see how this improves mileage for those that care about things like this. One thing I did notice is my 3.2Q handled better in snow in with the stock controller then with the upgraded unit, it felt more predictable.
    I am curious to see how good the Gen IV upgrade is since the new version supposedly went from a reactive to a proactive system i.e. older engaged rear when a wheel slipped as to new is already engaged(any one can chime in and correct me on this)
    I can say that the Gen II definitely improved the cars handling dramatically so worth every penny, and this is a 10 minute job for anyone possessing any mechanical skill and a set of ramps to get under the car:icon_thumright:
    #24
  26. kinson
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    kinson Member

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    [Mar 29, 2010]
    frankly, i love the race mode so much that i decided to keep it in this mode.... only when driving my family shall i switch to stock. eco?! i'd take the tube instead of driving.... heeeee heeeee ^_^
    #25

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