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Heating packed in

Discussion in 'A6/S6/Allroad forum (C5 Chassis)' started by HerefordQuattro, Feb 9, 2013.

  1. HerefordQuattro
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    HerefordQuattro Member

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    [Feb 9, 2013]
    Just what i need at this time of year!

    All was fine till last weekend when it went a bit luke warm then stone cold, seemed to work for a minute but not very hot then ran out of heat....dials say 90deg and warms up ok.

    Plugged in vcds lite today and engine eventully gets up to 86-88 deg, is this warm enough?

    Pulled both hoses from the matrix connections and ran hose of outside tap through in both directions and seemed to flow ok so not that.

    When i put hoses back on and ran the engine up there was no water flowing up from cylinder head feed, i squeezed the top rad hose (under reservoir) and got a glug on the return side.
    Should there be a constant flow through the matrix, if so the water pump must be knackered, otherwise i guess the thermostat has gone?

    Strange that it was working fine one day then suddenly stops the next, can they do that?

    It had a good flush 2 years ago when it was cold for the first winter and made a massive difference, and i changed the coolant again back in october 2012 so i just don't understand how it can suddenly pack up???:banghead:

    words of wisdom please...
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  3. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Feb 10, 2013]
    Most likely a stuck flap in the climatronic unit, the water pump will allow the engine to overheat if not working properly + as far as i remember, there's a metal impeller KWP one fitted on your engine, had many fitted to v6 tdi-some 5 year old now and over 50k- not a single one failed yet ! Also thermostat would not let the engine go to 90 Celsius, blocked heater matrix can do that though, what color is the antifreeze in it ?
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  4. HerefordQuattro
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    [Feb 10, 2013]
    I first guessed it was a problem with the flaps rather than the matrix/water circuit as gets up to temp ok but yesterdays tests chucked a spanner in the works when i got no water flowing.
    Can we safely say because the car never overheats the pump must be working?

    Thermostat may be suspect as it took a while to get up to temp and then only reached high 80's never 90+ ??

    Got garden hose on matrix connections and flowed fine in both directions.

    Antifreeze is rusty pink! was G12++ both times i've flushed in the past 2 years (last done 4 months ago)

    Go hold of circuit diagram from Elsawin last night and trying to get my head round why i have no water flowing up to matrix, looks like they are running in parallel so i guess if the matrix isn't bled through properly the water pump will just pull through from main circuit...
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  5. HerefordQuattro
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    [Feb 11, 2013]
    GIVE ME STRENGTH

    Took the afternoon off work as it was pissing down yesterday, got some 2 part rad flush and new G13 and gave it a good flushing. Remembered i'd plumed in hot water to outside tap with new kitchen so got hot water flowing through matrix to verify nothing wrong with climate flaps etc = water circuit problem.

    And now it won't start!!!!!!!!!

    Took some great advice from Adamss24 (thanks a lot Chris !):respekt: Towed it down the road behing the old man's Disco4 (praying not to run into the back of it $$$) and it started, ran it for 20 minutes, turned it off and straight back on lovely.

    And an hour later it won't start again FFS:aggressive:

    Looks like an air leak in diesel line but why the feck now it's been fine since i changed the filter back in March 2012...

    now waiting for my dad to finish his tea and come back round for another tow.
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  6. HerefordQuattro
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    [Feb 12, 2013]
    Changed the fuel filter again for a better quality one (o-ring on 11 month old looked shaged) and towed it to prime and start (cheers again Chris it really does work well!) Hope it starts in the morning...

    Meanwhile back to the original problem; heating still not working and now possibly overheating, looking like failed waterpump to me as heat is getting up to matrix connection (by convection) but not getting pumped through.
    Felt a slight bit of heat when i got up to speed but not for long and only faintly luke warm.

    Audi quoted me £1045 for cambelt & WP which even the service manager thought was a bit steep so discounted down to £850, i told him not to count on me phoning him back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I'll give my indie a call tomorrow, shame i'm so far away from Chris (adamss24) do you do mobile cambelt service??!
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  7. TYphoon GB
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  8. HerefordQuattro
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    [Feb 13, 2013]
    Diy is a poss, means buying cam lock kit for about £50 which i could sell on after, timing the fuel pump is out of my scope though (not go t full vcds)

    Good shout on Pioneer, went to look at a couple of A6's there before i bought mine, didn't realise they did servicing too. £483 with water pump.
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  9. HerefordQuattro
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    [Feb 13, 2013]
    varying prices for belt kits for DIY, what would you fit anyone???

    AKE engine
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  10. TYphoon GB
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    [Feb 13, 2013]
    PM and I will lend you mine!
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  11. HerefordQuattro
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    [Feb 15, 2013]
    Founda local garage (Straightline Performance in Malvern) who advertise on ebay @ £408 for belt & pump.

    still not had any replies on kits to use for diy job? when i look on ECP Timing Belt Kits | Timing Belt Kits for every make and model there are 9 differnet kits listed rangin from £98 - £383 ???????
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  12. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Feb 15, 2013]
    Go for the Contitech one with the vibration damper, that's what i would use, also SKF one is good value for money but i found the injector pump tensioner snaps rather quickly ! I have used all kits with mixed results, i would avoid Dayco like the plague and don't get cheap water pumps either. Even the genuine ones are not what they used to be ! I don't mind doing your cambelt but i charge £500 which includes a genuine stat + 2 x drivebelts ...
    It's a bit odd that the water pump has failed, the impeller on that is cast iron if i remember correctly ! It would be the first KWP water pump that failed since 6-7 years i use them.
    To be honest i do not remember if i supplied the parts or Marius when i did the cambelt on your car, it could be that he supplied the parts- just met him then !
    What's the mileage now ?
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  13. HerefordQuattro
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    [Feb 15, 2013]
    190k now!

    I'll dig out the old paper work Marius gave me and look for the water pump.

    To be honest Chris I'd never make it to London without it overheating catastrophicaly... so may have to do it myself or trust local guys, but i don't really trust anyone to work on my car because they cut corners if you're not watching and i like to know every last thing has been done 100% if you kow what i mean even so called ex VAG technicians (both local guys are)
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  14. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Feb 16, 2013]
    No, i would drive to you but will have to be next week, i am away till thursday ! See if there's an invoice for a KWP water pump or genuine pump, we got rather drunk that weekend and my memory is sketchy...

    Not trying to be patronizing but i would really think twice when working on a v6, whilst not rocket science is a rather involved process and often goes wrong ! Get over to vw audi forum and read Alex's saga ! Just to let you know i have done the cambelt, water pump and the cams on that car, he kinda messed me about by paying me little money after working 3 days on his car so i refused to work on his car anymore and ignore his calls ! He then proceeded to do work by himself- 1.5-2 months already and he's not finished yet ! Don't get me wrong, the chap has an OCD disorder and has spent thousands on his motor and he's not like he does not have money-has a decent job too ! That's what you get when you're too friendly, every time people will take advantage of you !
    Also the geizer has some mechanical inclinations and he's very methodical ! Here's the thread: 2.5 V6 tdi - help me replace oil retention valves
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  15. HerefordQuattro
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    [Feb 16, 2013]
    Found the paperwork; Belt kit and water pump and thermostat were all OEM from Dulwich Audi, paid for 05/06/2009 so not even 4 years old yet?!?!?!?!

    That is piss poor if it's failed already...
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  16. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Feb 16, 2013]
    That's what i meant ! Never had a KWP water pump failed on me as yet, even i fitted one on a cousin's a6 and still running strong 5 years after i have done it !
    As i was saying, the genuine/refurbished water pumps are pants- nothing like the originals, had 2 failed within the 2 years warranty period and when i took them to the dealer they told me to bring the car in when it was in bits ! After putting it together for a laugh and towing it to them they blamed the corrosion on the block NOT their faulty water pump leaking from the core plug ! Since then i only buy the best aftermarket water pumps i can get for reasonable money !
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  17. HerefordQuattro
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    [Feb 19, 2013]
    Looks like i'm doing the job myself - watch this space for lots of questions!

    First of all a Big Big thanks to Typhoon for lending me his cam locking kit AND a 3 arm puller AND visocus fan spanners (saves me ramming my big adjustable back in there!)

    Shopping list so far:
    Contitech Cambelt kit with vibration damper
    ContiTech Audi | Euro Car Parts UK’s No.1 Car Parts Retailer

    KWP Water Pump
    KWP Audi | Euro Car Parts UK’s No.1 Car Parts Retailer

    Circoli Thermostat
    Circoli Audi | Euro Car Parts UK’s No.1 Car Parts Retailer

    Thermostat Gasket

    2 Bottles G13 Coolant

    Water Pump Gasket (should it come with pump?)



    Is there any other bits i should change, for reasonable cost while i'm in there??
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  18. deanosabby
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    [Feb 19, 2013]
    My local Audi dealer did the timing belt and water pump for £500 ish just over a year ago. They told me it was cheap as they were doing deals on older cars labour time to compete with indie garages.
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  19. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Feb 19, 2013]
    Use a genuine thermostat not the ECP one ! Also inspect the aux. tensioner braket for wear and play in the bushes, repair if necessary !
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  20. HerefordQuattro
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    [Feb 19, 2013]
    yeah wasn't sure on the ECP stat! ordered lots from there as i had a 30% off code, will take it back and order genuine from dealer tomorrow.
    Problem with the tensioners is wanting to get the job done over the weekend and no chance of getting parts on the day hence getting the shopping list now.

    do you take front end off or will service position do?

    will the pump definitely need timing after or could it go back together exactly as it came apart?
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2013
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  21. HerefordQuattro
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    [Feb 20, 2013]
    Euro Car Parts let me down again....


    KWP pump ordered - Airtex pump delivered (Airtex have bought out KWP aledgedly and this is jsut a reboxed pump????)


    Contitech cam kit ordered @ £318 list - Contitech box that looks like it's been stored in a puddle delivered, with 1 belt & 1 roller inside - not exctly good value!!!!

    Ebay has come to the rescue with pweuroparts.com hopefully supplying a Contitech CT1015K2 (cam kit) + CT1018K1 (pump kit) inc tension damper for £239 all in delivered on Friday.


    On the plus side Typhoon's locking kit, puller and viscous spanners arrived a day earlier than expected - Top Man :applaus:
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  22. HerefordQuattro
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    [Feb 24, 2013]
    Half way there, didn't help having a load of beer Saturday night and being almost useless today!

    Genuine Audi, less than 4 years old, Water pump was the culprit as the pulley spins but the impeller doesn't.

    Started putting it all back together but unsure on the pump timing, can i leave the top cam cover off and still get to the pulley to adjust at a later date after putting the rest of it all back i.e. front back on and out of service position?

    Also lost a small amount of gearbox oil when removing the front (not a lot only a cupfull maybe) is checking the level a pain?

    Finally is it possible to remove the caps on any of the less critical idler wheels to repack with grease? I've done this before on my old v6 Omega
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2013
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  23. TYphoon GB
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    [Feb 25, 2013]
    Glad you found it... another great Audi design flaw?

    Yes you can still get to the pump with the cover off and front on...did this to mess with the adjustment and then the Indy I used did the same (in much less time)....The bottom clips are the only fiddlly bit.

    I can mail you a how to from a Skoda article (pretty much the same) PM?


    Gearbox...yup in my view right pain to fill .... Think 1/2 a cup is within tolerance (he smiles). When's its service due?
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  24. HerefordQuattro
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    [Feb 25, 2013]
    It doesn't really get a service, i'm too busy fixing it to treat it to stuff like that! It gets an annual 507 spec castrol edge change and anything else it needs in between but it's not quite to your level of detail!

    I've got a rough idea how to time it but the more info the better thanks, can mail to: jake dot underhill at btinternet dot com.

    Finally got it back together today and running tonight, only iffy bits were the tensioner as my torque wrench didn't like to read 15Nm anti-clockwise so as Adamss24 advised i did it by feel, but this is only a pre-tension as the damper keeps up with belt stretch (yes??)

    And the bloody locking wedges fell out of the cam as soon as i looked at the sprockets (ended up with an elastic band arrangement to hold in place)

    thanks again for lending your kit :beerchug:
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  25. TYphoon GB
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    [Feb 26, 2013]
    Sent.

    Yup did mine by feel luckily all our connectors at work are 15Nm!!

    Left the wire on I used to hold em in.....thought the genuine ones may fit better but my pet VAG man say no...ha!
    If it runs OK you must be close....
    #24

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