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Having Revo taken off today

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by ramos333, Oct 14, 2011.

  1. ramos333
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    ramos333 Member

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    [Oct 14, 2011]
    Hi guys,

    As the title says. Have Revo stage 1 and have had issues with the misfire / hesitation really since i've had it. 2 sets of plugs (currently using NGK Iridium, which are fine for 3 weeks then problem comes back.

    The thing that tells me it must be the map is I called Audi assist to my house and he cleared the Addaption / learning codes, and when i took it for a spin it was good as gold, then a few days later it was back. If it was a component issues then the problem would still be there after clearing these codes would you agree?

    Going to see how it runs stock for a while, and was advised by the Audi Tech that the MTM map is the best for the S3 as it uses and Audi based platform.

    Look forward to your views.

    Ramos
    #1
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  3. paddy
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    paddy Audi=No fault code, no idea

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    [Oct 14, 2011]
    I think i will be taking Revo stg 1 off mine soon. I am totally convinced the map is the problem with my hesitation as well, Revo say its the plugs but the car is only 4k miles old, if the plugs are as sooty as the exhaust then there is a problem with the map. £700 waisted....or wasted :)
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2011
    #2
  4. ramos333
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    ramos333 Member

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    [Oct 14, 2011]
    We have the same year / cars and exactly the same issues. Car is in going to try the AMD map now to see if it is the map or car. Will keep you informed mate.
    #3
  5. paddy
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    paddy Audi=No fault code, no idea

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    [Oct 14, 2011]
    Cheers Ramos
    The only MTM dealer is in Sussex, about 15 miles from me, maybe i will go and have a word
    http://www.qstuning.com/

    I
    ts not cheap at £699
    #4
  6. Kelza
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    Kelza MODERATOR Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Oct 14, 2011]
    Hi there if there is a problem with the revo map surely its the tuner who fitted the software to make sure the cars are running right ,im sure amd will sort it .. Have to spoken to revo themselves to see what can be done? Also have you tried new plugs to see if it sorts out the problem , or have the car scanned ,but the tuner should do this .
    #5
  7. pinterovski
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    pinterovski Member

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    [Oct 14, 2011]
    Seems like you guys have alot of problems with Revo maps :ermm:
    #6
  8. Kelza
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    Kelza MODERATOR Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Oct 14, 2011]
    OEM plugs manufacturer recommends changing at 5 000 miles.
    #7
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  9. ramos333
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    ramos333 Member

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    [Oct 14, 2011]
    If you look at everyone with similar issues they all run revo, and all dealers will have the sane software. Also how can you go through iridium plugs in 500 miles?
    #8
  10. Rob-Quattro
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    Rob-Quattro Member

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    [Oct 14, 2011]
    This thread has put me off REVO instantly. Keep us all informed if its the map or something else. Hope its cheap and you get it sorted though!
    #9
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  11. Cheese
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    Cheese Member

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    [Oct 14, 2011]
    Not everyone. I had an ABT map at Stage 1 (like MTM, they work very closely with Audi). Had a new exhaust fitted and had problems with that combination so went for an AMD Stage 2 map because ABT didn't have a suitable map for the TBE. I have just had the plugs changed 500 miles ago which improved things but did not solve the problem and it is starting to run less smoothly again...
    Mine is quite a new car too - a 10 plate and has done 17,000 miles. Wonder if it is something different about these new facelift S3s?

    What exactly are people's symptoms? Are we all suffering from exactly the same symptoms?

    Mine symptoms are occasional hesistations at about 3,500rpm under 3/4 to full throttle in gears 4 and above. When the issue worsens the misfires become noticeable in lower gears and then at other areas in the rev range. Severity of problem seems change on a day to day basis.

    Are any of you guys local to M3 J4? I would be interested to see how our cars drive in comparison to one another...
    #10
  12. paddy
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    paddy Audi=No fault code, no idea

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    [Oct 14, 2011]
    I know for a fact the MY10/11 ECU is different from a MY08/09 and Revo brought a new version of their S3 map out to cope with it. The original version i had fitted would misfire at 80mph steady on cruise. The new version ( V10) was fitted and was fine for a while , now its doing exactly what cheese describes with the same sort of misfire as the earlier V09 version..
    I cant make mine do it, it just happens unexpectedly at around 2-3k under normal acceleration. Trouble is I have just done 80 miles and it did it twice so how on earth can i demo that to a Garage ?? I dont buy this change the plugs ( thats what revo told me to do) a properly set up map should extend the life of the plugs not shorten them to under 3k miles. the fundamental problem here is a generic map, one size fits all when each engine will be different, you get away with it on a std map because they set the peaks quite low but really a performance map should be fine tuned to its engine. this is why audi set it to 265 bhp and not 285 or 310bhp.
    #11
  13. S3AMK20VT
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    S3AMK20VT Member

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    [Oct 14, 2011]
    I was put off by revo when I asked a few installers who said it would take 10-20mins to install! Thought this was a joke, apparently all dealers have generic revo file ready to be flashed. This and also the fact that when revo say with their sps switch the car goes back to stock, it doesnt it just decreases the revo settings so the car drives with less power. Seems like they love saying its coilpacks or spark plugs
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  14. paddy
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    paddy Audi=No fault code, no idea

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    [Oct 14, 2011]
    Yes the SPS thing is a shame because i put mine back to "stock" but needless to say it still misses because its still the Revo map. turned down...
    #13
  15. paddy
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    paddy Audi=No fault code, no idea

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    [Oct 14, 2011]
    Says who ?? Audi service interval is 20k + ?
    #14
  16. ramos333
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    ramos333 Member

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    [Oct 14, 2011]
    What a nightmare of a day! Took it to AMD at 11am (time I had booked) and said let's give the AMD map a go, beacuse if it is the Revo map either with AMD or stock the issues should go. They told me 1pm car would be ready. Got back at 1pm and they said still haven't managed to sort anything as Revo want to see logs from the map ETC ETC so it will be at least another hour! At 2pm I said that i really need to go, so they put it back to stock and gave me a refund! After this service I will not be going back!

    The car as it stands has no issues, however it could take the car a couple of days to adapt and issues come back or if all ok I will try and MTM map!

    Honestly guys if you check the people that have had hesitations / misfires under boost at 3k RPM upwards in 3rd / 4th the majority will have Revo. This also goes for SEAT / VW.
    #15
  17. paddy
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    paddy Audi=No fault code, no idea

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    [Oct 14, 2011]
    Thanks for the update , I am going to see the guys in Sussex tomorrow in the link above i posted re the MTM map.
    #16
  18. swatchuk
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    swatchuk Member

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    [Oct 14, 2011]
    I had my car re-flashed back to standard as I didn't know what map was on the car and thought that's what was causing the problem. Since which the car still has the same problem. I've changed numerous parts and plugs and still have the same problem. Mine slots up plugs in 20 miles. Never mind 500. No idea what's going on. It's not just face lift though as mines an 07. I can get it to do the miseries whenever. As I proved to the garage yesterday. Can't believe so many people have the same problem and nothings been solved
    #17
  19. ramos333
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    ramos333 Member

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    [Oct 14, 2011]
    The Wife has an AMD map on her 07 plate 2.0t with 25k miles on it and it has run perfect. I have a brand new 2011 s3 and have had all tear issues. I could understand in more on an older car.

    It's like anything if a spark plug or coil pack was faulty with or without a map it would still show with both
    #18
  20. jerseypaul
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    jerseypaul Member

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    [Oct 14, 2011]
    Didnt the 2010> 2.0 TFSI get revised variable valve timing?
    I'm sure I remember reading that in Audi Driver International somewhere.
    Would give these symptoms I reckon.
    Just a thought.
    #19
  21. akash_sky1
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    akash_sky1 Active Member

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    [Oct 14, 2011]
    GIAC FTW boys
    #20
  22. Carl.S
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    Carl.S Member

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    [Oct 14, 2011]
    There was a revision in the factory firmware of the ecu that clashed with Revo at partial throttle, this was fixed 6+ months ago guys and all your dealers were informed, get yourself down to your dealers for an update :)Hope this helps!
    #21
  23. paddy
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    paddy Audi=No fault code, no idea

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    [Oct 14, 2011]
    sorry but i had that update 8P0 907 115AP S0010 but it worked for a month and now i am back where i started.
    #22
  24. ramos333
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    ramos333 Member

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    [Oct 14, 2011]
    Thanks for all your comments guys. Mad thing is car still feels quick but in a different way. It still has pipercross panel filter and NGK plugs but stock map. Surely those small mods won't make hardly any difference? Any views on an MTM map? An Audi tech reckons the software used is one of the best?
    #23
  25. paddy
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    paddy Audi=No fault code, no idea

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    [Oct 14, 2011]
    did you have revo taken off or "put back to stock" which is still revo map but turned down a bit ?
    #24
  26. ramos333
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    ramos333 Member

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    [Oct 14, 2011]
    In his words put back to stock. What does that mean? Shall I go to Audi and get a re flash?
    #25
  27. streetfighter-r
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    streetfighter-r New Member

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    [Oct 14, 2011]
    I would highly recommend APR guys...I have the A4...true standard map and 95, 98 Ron maps switchable from the cruise control! OEM smoothness!
    #26
  28. paddy
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    paddy Audi=No fault code, no idea

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    [Oct 14, 2011]
    Ram
    As i understand it the only way to revert to a stock map is to get audi to re flash it. The revo stock is just their map de tuned so could well have the same pitfalls/misfires.
    quite how you get audi to re flash a 2011 car with out them finding it is mapped and thus invalidate the warranty i dont know or i would have the audi map put back on mine today !!

    I am angry with Revo because they advertise their stg1 as a remap using all original parts designed to bring the true potential out of the engine, increasing efficiency, while retaining the stock usability and reliability. in which case it shouldnt eat plugs and cough and fart around under moderate acceleration..I wonder if their warranty covers the removal of the map.

    "Revo Software works in harmony with the vehicle, maximising the safe potentional from the standard hardware whilst always working within factory safety parameters and retaining smoothness, reliability and fuel economy"
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2011
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  29. PaulAr
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    PaulAr S3 (8P)

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    [Oct 14, 2011]
    Stock BMW derv FTW
    #28
  30. poverty
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    poverty Member

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    [Oct 15, 2011]
    Newer S3's seem to be having the most issues. No reported issues on the leon cupras as far as I can see.

    Any tuned engine will require new spark plugs more frequently. Doesnt matter if its an audi, mitsu evo, or a focus rs.

    Revo software on the 2.0TFSI is proven to be the strongest and reliable. Audi do seem to be messing around with the newer cars to make tuning more difficult and troublesome. If you have concerns, send revo a email or arrange to visit the HQ.

    MTM is known to be mild in comparison, APR also down on power etc.
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  31. paddy
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    paddy Audi=No fault code, no idea

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    [Oct 15, 2011]
    Maybe you could explain to us why a tuned engine eats plugs poverty ?. In my 35 years of engine tuning, an engine developed to run more efficiently but "within the parameters of the stock components and retaining fuel economy " should have enhanced plug life when fitted with a higher quality plug like a Iridium of the correct heat range for the state of tune.. given that in a std state of tune an Iridium plug should last 60k miles i am surprised they are lasting a couple of k's in a mildly tuned S3, remember these plugs dont seem to be "wearing" out, they seem to be shorting out due too soot on some of the examples above.

    I see you also say "MTM is known to be mild in comparison" ?? they quote 310bhp stg1 which is actually more than Revo ?
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2011
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  32. klik
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    klik Member

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    [Oct 15, 2011]
    No problems with GIAC. very smooth too
    #31
  33. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Oct 15, 2011]
    Question1: if Revo code was problematic, wouldn't EVERY S3, Golf R, Leon Cupra/R, TT-S owner be on this / other forums building up a huge bowel wave of dissatisfaction?

    Question 2: does the S3 have a list of known issues hardware and running issues (valve springs / coil packs / plugs / carbon fouling / PCV / clutch / fuel pump / cam lobe etc.)

    I have Revo code on my car, have done for 7 years, including wife's car and the code has never been an issue on any of them (multi staged). The faults without exception have ALWAYS turned out to be down to a failing or weakness in the cars armoury of components.

    If there is on thing I don't think we should endorse, it's starting a thread where users are making judgements where the outcome has not been proven by proper research and logging. Across various forums over the last few years I've read about cars on many TFSi platforms that are having issues even before code is being introduced into the equation. My personal opinion as I've stated many times in that the cars are being made to a budget (e.g. The S3 is a 'stretched' Golf GTi). Whether this is part of an exercise by the manufacturer of trying to stop owners pushing the limits further or just plain old cost cutting by the 'suits' I have no idea?

    That aside, there are many cars way in advance of stage 1 that are having no issues, probably because those cars have appropriate counteracting mods (DP/ CAI/catch cans) as part of their build regime.

    Before we start a witch hunt, and all the other non Revo owners get on board to buff their knobs, maybe it would be an idea to get some for of independent inspection / logging? It's all very well kicking off when all we really have is a couple of cars, some conjecture and some assumptions, but that isn't going to move the game along and hence why we end up with bull**** urban myths in the industry like the K&N filter oiling problem!

    Whilst I appreciate people are going to think I'm fighting Revo's corner, I'm not. It's my job on here to be clear, independent and present the facts as I find them. I'm happy to provide support in any way I can getting you access to the right people, but I'm almost inclined to say, 'Go get another map elsewhere and see if your cars miraculously fix themselves'.

    I can appreciate anyone being a bit sore when you have £30k car and it's not running right, but let's get some facts together before we start slandering companies that to date have had no chance to defend themselves against the accusations without even having had a chance to see the cars in question.
    #32
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  34. paddy
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    paddy Audi=No fault code, no idea

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    [Oct 15, 2011]
    I take your point Warren and i dont think this is a witch hunt. Forums like this are for people to discuss common issues and hopefully find a common solution. A great example is the old 3.2 hesitation thread that ran for 30 + pages with just 6 or so regular posters but in the end we managed to get Audi to admit there was a problem with the 3.2 and we found a software update issued in Germany that Audi UK had kept quiet about.
    That too could have been called a witch hunt against Audi i suppose ?
    the problem here seems to be MY10/11 cars so i dont expect your car to show symptoms. Revo admit they had conflicts with the new MY10/11 ecu firmware and brought out a updated map to cope with these issues. I have had the previous unsuitable map and now the new map and that is exhibiting the same issues as the known flawed map. Its is only reasonable to assume therefore that the replacement map is not addressing all the issues. We may well be totally wrong but its an avenue worth exploring. Either Ramos or myself will have to take the next step and get the Audi map re installed which should give us some pointers.
    I have to admit that had i realised from day 1 that despite asking here and in the garage, the SPS switch did not restore the stock map but just turned down the Revo map i doubt i would have gone down this route at all given i had just brought a brand new car and paid extra to extend its warranty too 4 years after all the hassle i had with the 3.2....
    Also i would point out that there are a wide cross section of mapped S3's on here with Shark/GIAC/AMD/MTM/Superchip/ and so on but its REVO and MY10/11 cars that keep cropping up with this hesitation issue which is a bit of a coincidence.
    I do take your point about trial by chatroom so i will not post anymore on this issue and hopefully your new car with the latest firmware will do better than ours.
    #33
  35. ramos333
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    ramos333 Member

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    [Oct 15, 2011]
    Warren,

    This is our 3rd mapped Audi. Revo 2.0t 55 plate A3 Quatt, AMD 2.0T 07 Plate A3 Sportback and now my 2011 S3 Revo, so we are no strangers to maps, and these are the first issues. It must be me as I had to have a new gearbox mo my R35 GTR after 10k and that was standard!!!

    You need to share these experiances as much as the good ones. To be fair i've been back to Audi, back to AMD, spoken to Revo and all AMD and Revo say is plugs or coilpacks! So taking your point of making assumptions without proper research or logging then AMD and Revo are doing just that aren't they? If anyone has done their research it's me! Why haven't Revo turned round and said i'm really sorry sir let's see if we can resolve this? Or AMD say the same? They are all quick to take my money then fob me off when there are issues.

    I'm now on Iridium plugs, 2 trips to my Audi dealer and 1 trip out by Audi assist. After the Audi assist guy cleared my adaption / learning codes then said go for a spin the fault has gone (for a few days). This is NOT going to cure a component issues only a ECU / map problem. I'm only trying everything to cure this bloody annoying problem which is making me dislike my car.

    Other maps may not be as powerful as revo, however it may be it's a more stable platform for certain cars. If you have the answer then please let me know and i'll gladly take this on board. Ramos
    #34
  36. mkimjoon
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    mkimjoon Member

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  37. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Oct 15, 2011]
    Gents, I absolutely endorse open chat about this stuff, I will be exactly in your shoes in a couple of weeks. A MY12 car with Revo, and chances our we could all be scratching our heads.

    I will happily hand over my car to Revo and leave it with them if I get the same issue in aim of helping move things forward. But remember Revo run a franchise model, and there is a point where they have to be able to leave the tuning agent to underpin fault resolution as some cars (by the law of averages) may just not take to the code as engines are not blueprinted. Any weaknesses will be ruthlessly exploited by aggressive code. I thought I had a flat spot and I had ITG flow test the intake and MAF pipes, I have Revo test the code on the car, and it turned out to be the FPR.

    When a dealer sells code, because it's a high value business cost to buy into the franchise I can imagine it might be difficult to factor in extended fault finding in this difficult economic climate. I'm not condoning it, I'm just trying to rationalise the position of both sides. I think code sales are also likely to be being hit in recession and more and more people will be turning to fag packet non established tuners for a quick fix, further pressurising margins in the premium sector (haven't MTM just reduced cost of code from a grand to 650 for S3?)

    To be fair, we can see by how Audi are locking down ECU's that they're fighting a war against external intervention, so I'm almost expecting issues!

    I will speak to Revo on Monday and see where we can get this to, as I want forum members to be happy. Im concerned that the tuners may see this intervention as going behind their backs, so it needs to be a joined up effort, but working towards the greater good and polling resources may be a good start.

    Cheers

    W
    #36
  38. Brett Butler
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    Brett Butler Member

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    [Oct 15, 2011]
    I am another one that is seriously thinking of having Revo removed, I recall asking Audi to re-flash and they said they could not do it, or it was out of their control, All I do know since I have had that software (Revo Stage 1) on my car there has been nothing but trouble, and a permanent hesitation just cruising, (Though Audi maintain that this is apparent on all of the 2.0 TFSI engines 2010 onwards, just really not noticeable unless you know what it is and looking for it, Revo makes it a lot more apparent) and now again engine misfire under load after a new set of upgraded plugs recommended and fitted by Audi. The car has never really run more than 3 or 4 k miles with out an issue since new, (I had Revo fitted after a few k from brand new) but now the issues are worse this misfire makes the car really judder. and with in 1 or 2 k miles after plugs fitted. Engine light is on again, and then it goes off, and back on as the problem gets worse.

    I am sick of the issues, the car is fantastic, till it goes wrong again, and I lose it for a week for them to fix it.

    I am really interested in how you have the software removed 100% guarantee?
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2011
    #37
  39. voorhees
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    voorhees Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Oct 15, 2011]
    I think a remap just magnifies an existing problem/weakness
    #38
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  40. Essflee
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    Essflee Well-Known Member

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    [Oct 15, 2011]
    I'm pretty sure that when your car is remapped the tuner will have your original map on file, so when you want the car returned to standard it's just a case of having your old map put back on, it shouldn't be Revos idea of the standard map...
    #39
  41. Brett Butler
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    Brett Butler Member

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    [Oct 15, 2011]
    I never knew there was an upgrade to the revo software, rather annoyed no one told me, IE the garage that carried out the upgrade, as they knew of my issues after a week or 2. I spent quite a lot of time talking to various people including Revo HQ, who blamed the HPF Pump, in the end they did not even bother calling me back.

    Warren, and to others, Revo might excel for other engines, but I think we all who have 2010 upward S3's have issues, and if you think about it how many S3's Audi Sold, most never messed with, take a percentage that only are only Revo upgrades, I think there is a high percentage of issues with this engine and upgrade.

    TBF to Audi they have really been good to me and everything so far has been done under warranty, but I really do think that now again another issues is starting to be really suspect of it being caused by the Revo Software, As I said earlier Audi My Dealer have admitted to a hesitation (unofficially of course) problem on that engine, also Audi have said there has been issues with Spark plugs fitted on that engine, and have changed the OEM plugs fitted, but alas I have the same issue back again after a few k miles heavy misfire under load.

    I owe it to Audi now to stock the car 100% and see what happens. and speak to them regarding mtm, and mtm to see if they have similar issues, with maybe trying them out.

    As for Spark plugs lasting a lot less time in a modified car, well personally I think that depends entirely on how you drive it, I think most people assume if people upgrade a car we thrash the living daylights out of it all the time, in my case untrue, in fact often the improved low/mid power makes me more likely red line it less. I for one have remapped it for better fuel consumption as well.

    I am not happy with Revo, but he ho. you can fully see why AUDI are really trying to stop the firmware upgrade.
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2011
    #40

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