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Have i made the wrong choice?

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by RobinA3, Dec 6, 2006.

  1. RobinA3
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    RobinA3 Well-Known Member

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    [Dec 6, 2006]
    Hey Guys

    I bought my A3 almost 3 weeks ago now and i am in the middle of debating wether i should have gone for the 2.0litre 140bhp diesel instead of the 2.0litre T FSI.

    I do around 13-14k miles a year so i would save alot in fuel if i went for the Diesel.

    Before i bought the car i got now i test drove a 2.0 140bhp diesel and i thought it was quite slow and sluggish therefore i went for the petrol instead.

    Don't get me wrong the petrol is great as its fast and torquey but i am thinking due to the mileage i do i think a diesel would have made more sense.

    Anyone had a diesel and went for a petrol afterwards?

    I got the A3 for quite a good price, i paid £18.5k and the spec is as follows:

    2.0litre T FSI S--Line Quattro
    55 Plate
    6k miles
    18'' 20 Spoke Split Wheels
    Arm Rest
    Cruise Control
    Silver Mirrors
    Xenons
    Multifunctional Steering Wheel
    6 Disc Dash Changer Stereo
    Tinted Windows

    For the price i think i have got a good deal but i always have that feeling that a diesel might have been a better option.
    #1
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  3. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Dec 6, 2006]
    You will defintely save money with a diesel. If you do around 14k per year then assuming the 2.0T does around 30mpg and the 2.0TDI-140 does around 48mpg you would save around £760 per year at current prices.

    It really depends on how important this £760 is to you.

    I've got a 2.0TDI-140 which is getting on for 3years old and I'm just about to order a new one - only this times I think I will go for the 170 version.

    By the way I've just seen on the internet that fuel duty is going up by 1.25p per litre from midnight tonight !
    #2
  4. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    [Dec 6, 2006]
    I'd have (and indeed did) gone for the 170 TDI tbh. I looked at the 2.0T but it would have cost me around £100 per month more in fuel and company car tax which I just couldn't justify.
    #3
  5. mfspen
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    mfspen Member

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    [Dec 6, 2006]
    Yes, I did precisely that in September this year.
    I had a 2.0TDI Sportback, and changed for the 2.0T S-Line.

    Fuel consumption is worse of course, but in every other respect the 2.0T is better. Much quieter and more refined, and it doesn't have that 'brick-wall' torque curve of the diesel.

    Mind you, the evil Scotsman is about to increase fuel duty, so my opinion might yet change !
    #4
  6. steve184
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    steve184 Active Member

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    [Dec 6, 2006]
    i test drove a 2.0 TFSI and i got back into my 140 TDI thinking mines gonna feel slow now..... i thought wrong - it 'felt' just as fast

    bring on march!
    #5
  7. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Dec 6, 2006]
    I know plenty of people who drive diesels,but none through 'choice'.
    They all drive diesels because they have the lowest CO2 rating,which means they pay the least amount of company car tax possible.
    None of us (in our company) 'like' diesels,we just make do with them because they cost us the least tax.
    If money were no object,we'd all take petrols every time.

    The only person I know who has bought a diesel with their own money is....err...me !

    I bought the wife a diesel Clio,for one very good reason.
    I can be quite careless with the nozzle when I'm refuelling my company car you see,and I can find it slipping into the wife's car 'by accident'.....
    Even the garage owner,whom I know personally,cannot believe how careless I can be sometimes...

    ;-)
    #6
  8. Spin140
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    Spin140 Active Member

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    [Dec 6, 2006]
    I bought a diesel by choice, I had the 2.0T previously but got fed up with having to travel to Shell garages for the 98 ron fuel, plus I found I actually drove slower as I always had an eye on fuel consumption. The 2.0T is a gem of an engine but I find the 2.0tdi a good compromise, it can be a little loud when pushed and on start up but I actually like the 'short shifting' encouraged by the narrow torque band, on long motorway Journeys there is nothing in it IMO.


    I had opportunity to drive a Volvo V50 2.0D SE at the weekend and was very pleasantly surprised at just how quiet it was in comparison to the Audi, also revved very easily to 4.5k, not all diesels are a compromise these days
    #7
  9. ahaydock
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    ahaydock Member

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    [Dec 6, 2006]
    You could always consider the 140 2.0TDi and then reamp it if you are worrying about it being slow. My remap is great and fuel economy increase's for normal driving.
    #8
  10. C_Audiboy
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    C_Audiboy Vroom Vroom

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    [Dec 6, 2006]
    That does look like a very good spec and a decent price too.

    Wish I had the xenons :(

    Anyways, there's no use worrying now - you've bought the TFSI, so just enjoy it. Worst thing you could do is sell early and loose a fortune in depreciation anyway - erasing any financial benefit you'd gain by going diesel.

    You'll find it'll cost more to get the spec you've got with the diesel too....

    If you do a lot of motorway miles you can get upto 35 MPG from the TFSI which is a small price to pay for the refinement IMO.

    13 - 14k miles a year aint that much anyway ;)
    #9
  11. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Dec 6, 2006]
    I must admit I thought 13-14K was a typing error.
    That's not a lot at all.
    Average is 12K a year,so it's barely above average.
    #10
  12. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Dec 6, 2006]
    I also have a diesel by choice. At the time I bought my current car it was a choice between the 2.0FSI, 2.0TDI or 3.2. I tried the FSI and TDI and the TDI was by far the better car and much closer in performance to my previous 1.8T Sports. That was back in March 2004 and it was my first ever diesel.

    This afternoon I have ordered another new A3 and again it's going to be a diesel - a 2.0TDI - 170. I do some long journeys across Europe where diesel is so much cheaper than ordinary un-leaded let alone the 98 recommended for the 2.0T. As I have to buy all my fuel out of my own pocket it can save me around £800 per year at todays prices.

    When I had a test drive in a new TDI-170 it was actually quieter than my current 140. That may be because it was newer or it may be that Audi have made some improvements in this area. Personally I am only aware of the extra noise of a diesel when it's on tickover. Once cruising at a reasonable speed I'm never aware of any extra noise. I can quite easily talk to a passenger without have to talk any louder for instance.
    #11
  13. steve184
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    steve184 Active Member

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    [Dec 6, 2006]
    Diesel by choice here too..... other choices when i bought my car were.... 1.6 petrol (are you serious?)... 2.0 FSI (no thanks) 3.2 (lovely if you like petrol stations)
    #12
  14. d3fy
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    d3fy Active Member

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    [Dec 6, 2006]
    You tooting on the crack pipe on your way back ....
    #13
  15. marriedblonde
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    marriedblonde Moderator

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    [Dec 6, 2006]
    I bought my car out of choice but I chose diesel due to the mileage I cover, i suppose I could have gone for a NA small engine in a smaller car...

    This is my first diesel and I guess I will go for another next time round as I am kind of used to getting 40mpg and even droppping to an average of 30mpg is going to hike my fuel bill by a fair margin... Thats if I can achieve 30mpg in a 2.0T...

    But I have been known to change my mind. Tell you what though I know 100% for certain what gearbox it will have :)

    J.
    #14
  16. Beddie
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    Beddie Member

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    [Dec 6, 2006]
    Diesel out of choice here too and spent my own money and not the employer's lol!
    My recent car history has been MK4 Golf 1.8T which was unbelievably unreliable and drank fuel at an almost criminal rate...swapped for a Bora PD130 which never missed a beat in 3 years, averaged 48mpg over that time and rolling roaded at Awesome GTI 2 months before i sold her @ 150BHP!! :w00t: , and imo, no 'real world' performance loss over the 1.8T...

    I then bought a MKV GTI which apart from some quality issues (rattles etc) was a great drivers car although i never did get to grips with the low quality interior if i'm honest, although economical for a 200BHP car my average of 29MPG and the need for 98Ron fuel started to grate....

    Hence my new A3 2.0TDI, back to 50MPG and more than adequate performance (for me anyway) although still having it Bluefinned lol! and dare it say it #put's on flamesuit# much nicer to drive than the GTI as i guess i just prefer the low down lazy nature of a diesel engine?

    In short, petrol power's great and diesel power just as great imo, each will always have its fan's and one type will always be better for someone than the other and i no longer believe diesel power to be a 'compromise' anymore :happy:

    Different strokes for different folks and all that.....
    #15
  17. tinka
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    tinka Guest

    [Dec 6, 2006]
    diesel for me too,i drive my cars the same,so i would gain nothing by driving a petrol of similar or more power over my now 320d m sport,infact i would lose on fuel costs,so i see no benefit in ever owning a petrol again,unless they ever match the frugality of the diesel.
    #16
  18. ahaydock
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    ahaydock Member

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    [Dec 6, 2006]
    Yep agree with that. The only time I notice was for example today when a mate dropped me off home and we were stood outside his car with the engine running and you barely noticed. Can't say that is exactly true of my A3. But yes I have a diesel by choice and certainly will have another one.
    #17
  19. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    [Dec 7, 2006]
    The vast majority of the noise in an A3 at cruising speed is wind and tyre noise, not the engine.

    And you're right, the 170 is more refined than the 140.
    #18
  20. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Dec 7, 2006]
    Which just reinforces my belief that people choose diesels for reasons other than actually wanting a diesel,if you get my drift.

    If money was no object,I doubt you'd find anyone who would choose a diesel over a petrol.

    Put it this way,I doubt anyone's dream car is a diesel,and I doubt many young boys bedrooms are adorned with posters of diesels.

    Diesels are a compromise,but an acceptable one to lots of people.
    Ultimately though,petrol engines still rule.
    #19
  21. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    [Dec 7, 2006]
    What a ridiculous observation! If money was no object then I doubt you'd find anyone who'd choose an A3 at all.

    Unless you're stupidly rich then money is always a limiting factor in the choice of car. If money was no object why would you buy a 4-pot petrol over a 6-pot. Why would you buy a 6-pot over a V8. Why would you buy an Enzo rather than a Veyron!
    #20
  22. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Dec 7, 2006]
    Okay,wording it differently/better.
    If running costs were no object,then no-one in their right mind is going to choose a diesel over a petrol.
    If it weren't for company car tax rules,diesels wouldn't sell like they do.
    #21
  23. TDI-line
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    TDI-line Uber Post Whore

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    [Dec 7, 2006]
    Robin, how many miles do you get from a full tank?
    #22
  24. marriedblonde
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    marriedblonde Moderator

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    [Dec 7, 2006]
    Daemon Hill drives an A3 and I am assuming that he isn't short of a bob or 2...

    Gordon Murray drive's a smart coupe...
    #23
  25. RobinA3
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    RobinA3 Well-Known Member

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    [Dec 7, 2006]
    i get about 340miles per tank everyday driving to and from work @ 28-30mpg

    when i go to see the girlfriend its a 120mile motorway trip and i will get 400 to a tank @ around 36mpg.
    #24
  26. Spin140
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    Spin140 Active Member

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    [Dec 7, 2006]
    Turned into an interesting debate, if I had to choose for example either a 140 petrol or equivalent diesel and didn't pick up the fuel costs I believe I would still choose the diesel because I like the low down torque, in fact the only downside for me as no longer much of a rev head is the sound of diesels outside the vehicle, for example I would be unlikely to leave mine running whilst defrosting or wind down the windows to go through tunnels.

    Having said all this I still feel a little drawn to the new TT 2.0t so would consider another petrol but if Audi decided to pop a 170 DSG diesel in it there would be no contest...
    #25
  27. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    [Dec 7, 2006]
    No, they certainly wouldn't sell in the same numbers but running costs go beyond car tax alone. Of the £100 extra it would cost me to run a 2.0T over a 2.0TDI 170, more than half would be fuel costs rather than company car tax. The difference would be smaller, yes, and many would go for the petrol but many would also stay with the diesel.

    The other factor to consider is that many people prefer the characteristics of a diesel over a petrol, i.e. huge torque reserves. It makes for a far more relaxed form of motoring where you don't have to rev the nuts off it to make rapid progress. Turbo petrols suffer less from a lack of torque but I'd never buy a normally aspirated petrol engine at the same price point as the diesel alternative, even if the running costs were the same. The 2.0FSI engine, for example, is a nightmare and needs to be revved to death to make progress. I'd take the diesel over this every time, the added fuel savings of the diesel merely being a bonus.
    #26
  28. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Dec 7, 2006]
    With regard to low down torque,the 2.0T evidently beats the 2.0tdi hands down.

    As I stated earlier (or in another thread,can't remember),I couldn't keep up with a 2.0T out of slow corners yesterday morning.
    It was pulling yards on me every time.
    He wasn't revving it either,he was just flooring it from low revs.

    So it knocked my belief that diesels have better low down torque right into a cocked hat.
    #27
  29. southpaw66
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    southpaw66 Member

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    [Dec 7, 2006]
    I believe max engine torque figures are 140TDI 320Nm, 170TDI 350Nm, the 2.0T 280Nm, 3.2 320Nm and S3 350Nm, but given the final gear ratio is different between diesel and petrol they'll be a comparative loss at the wheels.

    Anybody know the gearbox ratios then you might have a true comparison...
    #28
  30. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Dec 7, 2006]
    Weight will come into it too.
    I'm assuming the 2.0tdi will be heavier than the 2.0T ?
    Maybe the 2.0T spins up quicker too (lighter crank/flywheel) ?

    All I know is,I got quite a shock when I found out my supposed low-down advantage evidently isn't...
    #29
  31. RobinA3
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    RobinA3 Well-Known Member

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    [Dec 7, 2006]
    to be honest i find the 2.0T FSI VERY torquey low end, at 1800rpm there is a massive lump of torque when the turbo gets spinning!

    the diesel i drove felt the same but i actually think the petrol feels better than the diesel as it doesn't come in a huge lump and then dissapears, it stays all the way to 6000rpm

    i find the petrol feels like a diesel lower end due to the turbo and i can easily spend most of my journey using 6th gear at 1500rpm.
    #30
  32. RobinA3
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    RobinA3 Well-Known Member

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    [Dec 7, 2006]
    it would be interesting to see a Torque curve of the Turbo and the diesel and see how they compare.
    #31
  33. marriedblonde
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    marriedblonde Moderator

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    [Dec 8, 2006]
    I've test driven a couple of the 2.0T's and that is a cracking engine! Definately very torque'y (sp!) This would be the engine of choice in my next car if I went VAG and it is nice and smooth and makes for effortless driving. But like I said I guess I would be luckyto see around 28mpg with my driving style.

    J.
    #32
  34. mfspen
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    mfspen Member

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    [Dec 8, 2006]
    You might be pleasantly surprised.

    I find I get 29mpg even on short (10 min) journeys to work during frosty weather. Long runs on A-roads typical give 35-38mpg.

    On motorways, a constant 70mph gives 36mpg, dropping to 34mpg at a constant 80mph.
    #33
  35. marriedblonde
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    marriedblonde Moderator

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    [Dec 8, 2006]
    Really?
    #34
  36. RobinA3
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    RobinA3 Well-Known Member

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    [Dec 8, 2006]
    Is your's a quattro?

    The Quattro will drink more fuel

    Also how many miles has your engine done?
    #35
  37. mfspen
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    mfspen Member

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    [Dec 8, 2006]
    No, mines FWD.
    The official figures indicate that quattro will be 3-4mpg worse.

    My car's still quite new, so it's only done 2000 miles. It was about 2-3mpg worse during the first 500-1000 miles. Also, I haven't bothered using 98 RON either. Tried it for a couple of tankfuls, and couldn't tell the difference, so I've used the standard stuff ever since.

    I think the key is that you don't have to rev the 2.0T hard to make rapid progress. The low-end torque means you can drive it like a diesel and let the torque do all the work.
    #36
  38. RobinA3
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    RobinA3 Well-Known Member

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    [Dec 8, 2006]
    I always use 99ron in my car and did so in my other cars as well

    i noticed better mpg and also i never use supermarket fuel as i have heard lots of stories about problems with FSI engine injectors blocking with **** fuel

    at work i sometimes use a injector ultra sonic cleaning and testing machine and the supplier of the machine has 40yrs of experience in injectors and mentioned that a large number of warranty claims are underway due to **** fuel being used in FSI engines
    #37
  39. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Dec 8, 2006]
    I must admit I would have assumed the same, but having just looked in my Owners Manual for something else I noticed that the Gross Vehicle Weight given for the 147kW 2.0T with a DSG is 1930kg. The same GVWs for the 103kW 2.0TDI with a DSG is also 1930kg.
    #38
  40. Macduff
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    [Dec 8, 2006]
    I found the complete opposite. I've had a 140 and 170Q as courtesy cars recently and found the 170 louder and rougher than the 140. they're both better in every respect than my 1.9 130 except that the 170Q only did 32MPG on the DIS!
    #39
  41. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Dec 8, 2006]
    Incredibly,according to audi.co.uk,the 2.0T is actually heavier !

    I am assuming the car I was following was an SE/sport.
    It certainly wasn't an S-line,as it sat high and had small wheels
    Doesn't matter,as they are the same weight.
    I am also assuming it was a manual,for no other reason than guesswork !

    So if it was a Sportback SE/Sport 2.0T manual
    Unladen 1470 kgs
    Gross 2030 kgs

    My car is a Sportback S-Line 2.0tdi s-tronic
    Unladen 1410 kgs
    Gross 1970 kgs

    So the 2.0T is actually 60 kgs heavier !

    Which makes the fact it out-accelerated my car with ease even more surprising !
    #40

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