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Have I blown my engine?! PLEASE help!

Discussion in 'A4/A4 cabriolet/S4 forum(B6 chassis)' started by QUIGGS2001, Jan 17, 2013.

  1. QUIGGS2001
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    QUIGGS2001 New Member

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    [Jan 17, 2013]
    Last night my mechanic picked up my '04 1.9TDI B6 A4. Ive been having problems with the heating system. IE: only getting warm air when car is moving/engine is in motion, then cold air when car is idle. Temperate guage never moves past 90 by the way. So anyways, lastnight he's diagnosed the water pump was broken and not circulating water/coolant at all.

    On his way back to my house to drop off the car, he calls me to state he was driving along, heard a loud ping, and lost all power of engine. Pulls over, seems to be excess oil on the road and on the side of engine block. Engine wont start. Hes figured its possibly blew a piston down through the bottom end, through the sump, or out the side of this block. Thus possibly meaning a new engine?! :unsure:

    Could anyone shed any light on this. Im no expert, but Im pretty sure a car shouldnt be driven with a broken water pump? What damage could this have caused?
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  3. AlexGSi2000
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    AlexGSi2000 Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 17, 2013]
    To be honest, if the waterpump was gone, it would usually only cause the engine to overheat - blow the headgasket or warp the head at the most.

    I wouldnt associate a rod through the block with overheating or with a broken waterpump. More likely harsh driving.
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  4. Purdy99
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    Purdy99 Member

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    [Jan 17, 2013]
    when you say engine wont start, will it turn over? ie can you hear the starter motor turning the engine?
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  5. QUIGGS2001
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    QUIGGS2001 New Member

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    [Jan 17, 2013]
    So hopefully it can be fixed without any major repair work, IE a engine replacement?

    I most defintely dont drive the car hard/harsh. If he was, would a few miles of thrashing do severe damage?

    I stated I wanted a second opinion, and I didnt let him tow the car away to his garage again. I fear he's possibly done something either when checking water pump or malicious driving en route back to my house?

    Yes, the starter motor is trying to turn the engine. Ive attempted to start it a couple of times. Im afraid though, as I could be doing more damage.
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2013
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  6. AlexGSi2000
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    AlexGSi2000 Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 17, 2013]
    In my opinion I would say the driver was giving it some stick to let a rod through the block. (dont quote me on that though)
    either that or cambelt failure.
    (is the waterpump driven from the cambelt on these? - cambelt could have been fitted wrongly after the waterpump replacement?)

    Either way, if there is a hole in the block then its an engine replacement - that or the minimum of the short block replacing & whatever else has been damaged.
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  7. hades-
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    hades- Yorkshire & Humber Rep. Regional Rep VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 17, 2013]
    are you sure its chucked a piston ?
    its not that hard to tell
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  8. Essflee
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    Essflee Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 17, 2013]
    I don't know if this car is remapped generating more torque but when I put a rod through my block I wasn't thrashing the car, just accelerating in 6th at 60mph using the torque, bang !!
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  9. VagCabby
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    VagCabby Active Member

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    [Jan 17, 2013]
    If it thrown a rod you would be able the hear it when turning the car over. What does it sound like when you try and start it? What's the oil level at?
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  10. QUIGGS2001
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    QUIGGS2001 New Member

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    [Jan 17, 2013]
    It has been remapped yes. Apparently by previous owner.

    Im not sure if its chucked a piston. When trying the ignition I cant hear any banging or knocking etc.

    Its with another mechanic today, Im hoping he gets a look at it and Ill respond with progress.

    Thanks to all responses so far. Im really hoping im not into big repair bills or worst case scenario; engine replacement.

    Shes Nov 04 (which I think is kind of the end of B6's) 115 Sport with 90K, FSH etc. I think Id find it difficult to find an engine with same spec & as well looked after as this one. I wouldnt put an older engine with higher miles in.
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  11. Ste_Nova
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    Ste_Nova Active Member

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    [Jan 17, 2013]
    oil on the road....... its dead, assume mechanic broke it
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  12. Andi25th
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    Andi25th Member

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    [Jan 17, 2013]
    No one on here can diagnose properly just from what you have told us.

    So its possibly just head gasket failure.
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  13. Andie0
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    Andie0 Member

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    [Jan 17, 2013]
    In the end of the day why was the mechanic driving a car that had possible complete water pump failure! He should of been more wise and trailered it to its destination! What a total bell end...
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  14. QUIGGS2001
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    QUIGGS2001 New Member

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    [Jan 17, 2013]
    exactly! Surely driving a car knowing its water pump was broken is complete stupidity. Cant believe it myself.
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  15. Ian-83
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    Ian-83 Member

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    [Jan 17, 2013]
    With a 1.9 tdi chuckilg all its oil over the road I would say possibly a rod has gone. Or he has smacked the sump on something.
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  16. QUIGGS2001
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    QUIGGS2001 New Member

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    [Jan 17, 2013]
    Ive ruled out he smacked the sump - simply because he'd obviously be immediately liable, own up, get it fixed. Case closed.
    If hes blew a piston, its easier to wash his hands of it surely? Say its been on its way out anyway?

    Im so angry. Ive owned this car 3 months. Its incredibly immaculate and until this incident, bar my cabin heating problem, was 200% sound.

    'IF' it needs an engine, is it worth hunting down a B6 engine, or upgrade to something newer like a B7 1.9 if possible. Or a TDI from a new Octavia etc.
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  17. quattrojames
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    quattrojames Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jan 17, 2013]
    The B7 1.9's are all 115bhp's. The 2.0TDi's are quite different, I don't know much about them but I think it would be common sense to replace it like for like really.
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  18. marktdisport
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    marktdisport Active Member

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    [Jan 17, 2013]
    Get a new mechanic who knows what they are talking about, oil on the road sounds very terminal...
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  19. tazzy baby
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    tazzy baby Rookie

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    [Jan 18, 2013]
    any more ews on this yet fella
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  20. QUIGGS2001
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    QUIGGS2001 New Member

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    [Jan 18, 2013]
    Its being picked up today (I hope) to be looked at. Feel so anxious - have no idea what kinda repair shes gona need. Im praying its not an engine.
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  21. tazzy baby
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    tazzy baby Rookie

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    [Jan 18, 2013]
    hope its good news and a quick fix for you butty. theres nothing worse than waiting and not knowing i should know i just went through seven months of not knowing if my engine was dead or not, but last night me and my brother finaly got her running so fingers crossed for you and keep us updated butty
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  22. QUIGGS2001
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    QUIGGS2001 New Member

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    [Jan 22, 2013]
    OK, so my new mechanic has called me today.

    He's diagnosed its a blown turbo. Thus restricting air to the engine = it wont start. He said hes never seen a turbo in such bad shape.

    Normally when a turbo is on its way out, it whistles right? I didnt have that?

    So has my first mechanic been thrashing it so hard he's blown it within the space of 4-5 hours which he had it, and been driving around in it like a lunatic?!

    Hopefully none of the smashd pieces have been sucked into the engine :(

    Or should the engine still start with a blown Turbo? Im not sure if its a reliable diagnosis?
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2013
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  23. Andie0
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    Andie0 Member

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    [Jan 22, 2013]
    Right first off my experience and blown turbos doesnt include vag cars so im not sure...
    but in saying that it should be possible to start the car still but be bellowing blue smoke out all over the place, but this was concerning a jap car so not sure if it is the same with vag! But if the turbo has blown into pieces blocking any of the feeds then yes the engine may not be able to recieve air in order to create a bang to start it... Again im no professional just my general opinion

    and if your having mega problems with mechanics why not take it to a audi specialist, where are you based?
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  24. QUIGGS2001
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    QUIGGS2001 New Member

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    [Jan 22, 2013]
    Mechanic explained that about the air not getting to engine. Im hoping thats the problem :(
    Im based in Derry, N.Ireland. They guy that has the car at the minute claims to be VAG specialist. Im hoping hes right and one of the feeds are blocked. Will know more tomoro!
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2013
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  25. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 22, 2013]
    Rods break trough the block due to hydro lock- either from ingesting water or when the turbo seals go and the engine runs on own oil bouncing off the rev limiter ! If the engine was running then they are liable to fix to the state it was before ! I have bought several cars with broken engines, bent rods and the like, only one so far thrown a rod trough the block ! You will need a short block assuming the head and injectors are good. Getting a whole new engine is a much better perspective and might prove cheaper in the long run !
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  26. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 22, 2013]
    The turbo does not chuck oil on the road, when seals o it's either massive smoke on the exhaust or engine runaway ! Engine does not need turbo to start, they have produced several Non turbo charged engines, VAG called them SDI ! Engine is funked, period !
    #25
  27. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 22, 2013]
    Your 2nd mechanic is worse than the first !
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  28. QUIGGS2001
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    QUIGGS2001 New Member

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    [Jan 23, 2013]
    Been to see the car today. The turbo was halved! Basically blown apart. Mechanic claims thats where the oil is from. So a new turbo is undoubtedly on the list when I visit my bank manager - possibly a new engine. Mechanic said hes doing a compression test on it and will flush intercooler/air filter etc once new turbo is on. Im lost. Not mechanically minded & have no idea if any of this is right/wrong.
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  29. marktdisport
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    marktdisport Active Member

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    [Jan 23, 2013]
    Has the turbo blown and then the engine ran on the excessive oil in the inter cooler resulting in over revving and throwing a rod ??
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  30. QUIGGS2001
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    QUIGGS2001 New Member

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    [Jan 24, 2013]
    He thinks the propeller was sucked into the engine when the turbo blew/halved.
    So Im possibly needing an engine as well as a turbo
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  31. QUIGGS2001
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    QUIGGS2001 New Member

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    [Jan 28, 2013]
    Now since my last post on here, users on other forums have told me the intercooler would've caught any foreign objects from reaching the engine?!

    Hes done a compression test, and said 3 of the 4 cylinders arent working?
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2013
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  32. Purdy99
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    [Jan 29, 2013]
    you would be surprised with what can get past an intercooler and into the engine,
    low compression tho on 3 out of 4, one thing for sure is with a garage... its gunna cost you! low compression can be a number of things,
    blown injector seals, blown head gasket, possible that parts may of got past jammed the vavles open then the piston smashing into them, which can cause a number of issues, bent/snapped vavles, bent con rod, damaged piston, however you mentioned no banging or knocking, so i can only assume that when the turbo blew and it will dumb most of the oil in a matter of seconds so that the engine cyclinders/piston rings ran dry of oil, and only in a matter of seconds they'll wear away, so you wouldnt get compression as it'll just blow pass, again the same problem can be cause by small metal filings from the blown turbo rubbing away wearing it all down,
    low compression on 3 cylinders will certainly make it hard to start, and very possible that it wont start,

    either way you might be better off finding a breaker and buying the whole engine with the turbo rather then repair yours, unless your happy with stripping it down and repairing it yourself, that'll probs be the best option
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  33. @udi A3
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    @udi A3 Site Sponsor Site Sponsor VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 29, 2013]
    Wow this sounds harsh!
    First off did the first mechanic fix the waterpump? If he has worked on the car he should have had oppertunity to invesigate the problem caused under his care.
    If the turbo has gone bang in such a way that the internals were sucked up the pipes into the engine, I would expect bent valves on those three cylinders, posibly some piston/bore damage from fragments too. If there is no bottom end damage, you could replace the head or valves, and put a new turbo on. You need to investigate the cause of the turbo failure though, I hear oil starvation is a common one, maybe the pipe burst oil dropped and turbo seized? Pipe blocked maybe?

    Probabaly easier and cheaper to find a complete engine with turbo from a salvage car, thats what i would do myself anyway.
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  34. QUIGGS2001
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    QUIGGS2001 New Member

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    [Jan 29, 2013]
    Thanks for the replies..

    First mechanic flushed the heater matrix & "checked" water pump. He concluded it needed a new water pump, as it aparently wasnt working at all.
    On the journey back returning the car to me, is when all the damage happened.

    I refused to let him near the car again, as I was afraid something was fishy about the whole scenario and advised I wanted a second opinion from another mechanic.

    It seems the best way to resolve this is to source an engine from a salvage vehicle. But as Im sure everyones aware, its the worry of what condition the new engine is in, what milage its done, has it been looked after etc. Bloody Nightmare!

    I found these guys online - Ivor Searle Ltd :: Remanufactured Engines Special Offers

    They sell the exact engine code to fit my Audi. Fully remanufactured. Anyone heard of them? Would I be better buying a remanufactured engine from those guys, or just source an engine from a scrappers?

    Would it have to be the same engine code? I think it'll be hard to source a BKE (115) engine.
    #33

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