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Harris RS3 v 135M

Discussion in 'RS3 Forum' started by Dave Hedgehog, Oct 17, 2012.

  1. Dave Hedgehog
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    Dave Hedgehog Member

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    [Oct 17, 2012]
    not many surprises here

    except the Sport button does not affect the suspension ;)

    UTOOB
    #1
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  3. inti
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    inti Member

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    [Oct 17, 2012]
    Hi,

    Oh my sweet nut, where did you find this clip.......this is the highlight video of the day for me, RS3 V M135i Amazing!!!!

    I have been a owner of numerous A3, and I believe it needs a massive change, well that's my opinion.
    #2
  4. Dave Hedgehog
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    Dave Hedgehog Member

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    [Oct 17, 2012]
    its only just been put up :p
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  5. inti
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    inti Member

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    [Oct 17, 2012]
    Hi,

    I must say the BMW M135i looks amazing, and has a beautiful driving position as well as comfort.

    I'm going to be on the phone tomorrow morning to BMW, I want one *slaps him self* Ooops I just remembered it's recession and I'm married Lol.

    Great video Dave 10/10 for the upload.
    #4
  6. Brodster
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    [Oct 17, 2012]
    335BHP from the RS3??? Thought it was 360bhp. This guy states the Beemer wins in a standing start race.......well the video proves up to 150 mph the RS3 has it and then the BMW takes it after that......in my eyes 0-100 is enough and it gets creamed.
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2012
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  7. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Oct 17, 2012]
    The one area I think this review is unfair is that it's testing a platform that's nearly 10 years old with a facelift new BMW.

    My greatest reservation about the RS3 has always been that the chassis was probably never designed for 350bhp, so what Audi have achieved is fairly credible. In the new car the engine is tilted backwards and the front end overhang has been significantly reduced (along with the weight), so when the RS eventually arrives in 8V format it would probably achieve a better comparison.

    That said, the Beemer is £10k uglier than the RS3! (And I bet to spec the 135i to same spec as RS3 it wouldn't be £30k)
    #6
  8. inti
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    inti Member

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    [Oct 17, 2012]
    Hi,

    I can say the design of the A3 has been around for a long time, and the BMW does looks good, actually very good but A3 needs a new wardrobe.

    I was shocked the BMW M135i won, ok it was over a very long stretch but it won and even then looks beautiful from inside.

    I want one, no I don't, I do, I don't. OK I really do
    #7
  9. RYes3
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    [Oct 17, 2012]
    Seems like the RS3 gets killed from that but I am not sure I agree with his style of criticism. Firstly, as Warren say's, it's a 10 year old chassis. That's no fault of the BMW though.

    Fact is, the RS3 was .9 of a second quicker round the track and the BMW only overtook in the drag at the point the RS3 hits the 155 MPH limiter.

    I hear him on the understeer but again, if it goes round the track quicker then whats the issue?

    EDIT: I should point out that I am no where near a good enough driver to notice the things talked about in these tests so what would I know lol!
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  10. RYes3
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    [Oct 17, 2012]

    340 PS which is 335 BHP
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  11. inti
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    inti Member

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    [Oct 17, 2012]
    Yes, that's correct.
    #10
  12. Dave Hedgehog
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    Dave Hedgehog Member

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    [Oct 17, 2012]
    not sure why the 3 hit the limiter, none of the RSs are limited to 155, plenty of vids of the RS limiting at 167, my mate took his to 167 sat nav confirmed
    #11
  13. RYes3
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    RYes3 Member

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    [Oct 17, 2012]
    Taken from Autocar, I have seen it in Audi literature too but can't find it anywhere at the moment.
    #12
  14. Dave Hedgehog
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    Dave Hedgehog Member

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    [Oct 17, 2012]
    audi claim all the RS cars are limited to 155, none of them are, my B5 hit the high 160s, i know i did it :)
    #13
  15. RYes3
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    [Oct 17, 2012]
    Fair enough :) Can't argue with experience :)
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  16. Dave Hedgehog
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    Dave Hedgehog Member

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    [Oct 17, 2012]
    and the 3 does as well ;)
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  17. MBK
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    MBK Active Member

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    [Oct 17, 2012]
    Harris could have written that conclusion before he sat in either car, he likes RWD and is an M fan (though not as one eyed about M as he is about Porsche) but he always concedes AWD is superb for normal british roads where most of us live. He's a great motoring jouno and I like his videos but doesn't mean we agree all the time. He ran the new RS4 down for similar things against the C63 but again admitted the RS4 would be good to live with and safer for the family. I've not seen him make many mistakes like the 'adjustable' suspension on the Sport button - and this shows how much of these buttons impact is in the mind...a lot like remaps but thats another story.

    What a shame he didn't bring along a 1M so the 135i could also have been proven 'nearly' as quick as that too - ah but no BMW marketing wouldn't have that would they! It's also worth remembering Evo dyno'd some 'test' cars last year and the RS '250' Megane they were given was running 276bhp. I mean BMW wouldn't turn up the wick a bit on this car knowing it was going up against the RS3 would they...

    Good luck to anyone who chooses the BMW, I've driven a lot of miles in a company 120d beater (yes the old one not the new one) over the past 3 years and I wouldn't buy one - floaty nasty suspension and no feedback at all through the wheel, not a car you push in anything but dry conditions. It would take a lot to convince me of the 135i and I doubt many will leave the showroom much under £40k once the salesman has convinced the buyer of all the essential resale options.

    As for the 155 limit, my car goes quite a bit beyond that, maybe I just got lucky.
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  18. poverty
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    [Oct 17, 2012]
    My TTRS stuck to the 155mph limiter, same as a few other owners.

    Anyway did we really expect a different outcome???

    I call BS on the driving positions thing though. The RS3 seats can go up and down, and the steering wheel goes up, down in and out, so dunno how thats a complaint, he needs to set it up better himself maybe.

    Also the m135 is wearing michelin supersports tyres, those tyres are worth nearly 2 secs on a 2.6km track. The supersports tyres where designed to rid cars of understeer and specifically developed on the TTRS and some porsche models. I fitted a set to my TTRS and they turned the on limits understeer into neutral handling. Big thumbs up from me those tyres and they do make a big difference.

    And just to make us VAG guys feel better, the TTRS with ultra high performance tyres as fitted to this m135 has absolutely smashed the e92 m3 over 3 different tracks.

    TTRS, 991S, M3, Corvette Grand Slam performance test | VAGOC.co.uk
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  19. RYes3
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    [Oct 18, 2012]
    Lol, I love how many of you have either been at the limiter or beyond haha :)
    #18
  20. Vtec Abuser
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    [Oct 18, 2012]
    In what world is 0.2 secs being 'creamed'?!?! Given that the RS3 takes that advantage (and a few car lengths) from the launch, it's pretty obvious to see that they are near enough inseparable upto triple figures once on the move (or without the RS' LC) and the BM takes over from there. Given it is 2 or so car lengths behind from the launch, don't forget it has to make that up before going past, so people saying it's only quicker after 150 just aren't taking this into account.
    On normal roads and unless you take them to daft speeds, you just aren't going to see much between them performance wise IMO. Also 99.9% of RS3's aren't bought as a drivers car, so whether Audi take that into account or not I don't know? What they do do well is give brilliant practicality and performance and much up the miles in comfort (one of the reasons I may have one next, as perfect for my job). If you want something a little quicker, better handling and more of a sports car, but with the same engine, go for the TT. Using "the platform is 7 years old" excuse isn't exactly a fair shout, as most RS models don't appear until the end of that platform's life, so I doubt that is going to change..
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  21. Brodster
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    [Oct 18, 2012]
    That would be My World where a nano second = advantage on the tarmac.....lol.
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  22. BigWillyStyle
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    [Oct 18, 2012]
    So true!

    The New 1 series styling is so wrong.The styling before was so much better. To be honest most of the new BMW's now are pretty disgusting which i'm disappointed about because i've alway been a fan ever since i owned one. I now see Audi going down the same route with the new A3 etc...
    #21
  23. gilford
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    gilford Member

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    [Oct 18, 2012]
    I'm sorry, but that guy is just a mong, I have never heard such one sided tripe in all my days! He's as bad as Clarkson!

    If he lived where I do (North Wales) he would have a different view! I have had an E36 Evo, an E46 M3, an E46 M3 CSL and an E92 M3 and NONE are as quick on these roads here as the RS3 FACT!
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  24. Vtec Abuser
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    Vtec Abuser Member

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    [Oct 18, 2012]
    Think you might be missing the big point that CH is making here pal...
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  25. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Oct 18, 2012]
    Jeez, it's been a while since we've seen you in these parts lad, are you still driving a 1er???
    #24
  26. Vtec Abuser
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    Vtec Abuser Member

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    [Oct 18, 2012]
    Now then mate, how's tricks?

    Yes, still have the 1er (hence adding to the discussion lol) and all running well. How's S3 the II going? I assume there is a sneaky mod or 2 on there? ;)
    #25
  27. warren_S5
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    warren_S5 Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Oct 18, 2012]
    Only S1 at present, waiting for some new Revo hardware to arrive before going back to 2+!

    All good here Ben, usual debates as you can see. Prefer your 1'er to the facelift! To be fair the 8P is an old platform so I'm not surprised he enjoys the Bimmer, and given what I'm having to do to engineer out some of the under steer on the S3 I do wonder why Audi don't take a more aggressive approach to this, but then the way most cars are driven on the road it's not a critical problem for owners. Haven't heard of any RS3 owners posting about how they've ended up in a field due to severe under steer!
    #26
  28. gilford
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    gilford Member

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    [Oct 18, 2012]
    I don't think I am. Model as tested, £37k, still ugly, says he can't get more than 26mpg out of the RS3? Bull****! Says he can get 38mpg out of the M135? Again, bull. He is just being one sided as always towards BMW and writes his tests accordingly.

    Also, he SLATES the RS3 when he takes it round the track, yet we have all seen how competent it is around the Ring in even an amateurs hands against an M3 GTS!

    It's a shame really, some people will really listen to what this guy says, thankfully I'd rather make my own decision and I think I made the only choice ;)
    #27
  29. Vtec Abuser
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    [Oct 18, 2012]
    The point being - it didn't matter which was slightly quicker round the track / across North Wales. It would be a lot more fun in the BMW and you would have £10k in your wallet whilst doing so..

    Nobody is saying that CH is the god of motoring and all must obey. After all, we all like different cars for different reasons. But I would much more sooner take his opinion on the 2 cars, rather than judge them on the result of some bellend driving like a hooligan around the Green Hell and trying to bully a (most probably unsuspecting) £100k M3 GTS owner into proving who has the bigger EGO.. Not surprised he waved him past tbh..
    I think if we look at the times of both stock cars when piloted by pro drivers, we will see that the video mentioned is worthless..

    Oh and 38mpg is quite easy from that engine mate, trust me ;) But I do agree/know that the 2.5TFSI is a lot better than 26mpg also..
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  30. slade777
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    [Oct 18, 2012]
    The RS3 is on the old chassis granted but it is still an RS. Lets see what the new S3 can achieve that's a fair comparison! I won't be surprised if its rated as a " better drivers car" for "real driving enthusiast" but lets be honest unless your Chris Harris you won't get the most out of that BMW. 99% of the public could get in that RS3/ new 8v S3 and drive fast safely!

    Also has anyone sat in the new 1 series, really the cabin is shocking. It's hard plastics here there and everywhere.

    I'm not saying this as an outright Audi fan as I'm even swaying from the brand but some critics are just anti Audi anti 4 wheel drive anti true quality. Chris Harris appears to be one. Each to there own.
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  31. Real Thing
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    [Oct 18, 2012]
    Although not happy with the slagging the RS got must say that BM for under £30K (admittedly low spec) is one hell of a bargain would still have my RS3 over it but that's as like most know everyday use in the real world with 4wd it's always going to get the average driver from A-B safer when driving fast.
    If BMW bring a 4wd version to the uk then I might change my mind.
    #30
  32. shady-ninja
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    shady-ninja Active Member

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    [Oct 18, 2012]
    the BM's are still overrated and stupidly expensive to spec up plus its gonna get stolen anyway with its security system that Steve Wonder can decode
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  33. Sticks
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    [Oct 18, 2012]
    hi guys just to say id have my rs3 anyday over that bm, coming from an m3 e93 2010 i still prefer my rs3 ,
    maybe my one does magic or somthing ,
    bmw as a company imo and ime for over 6 years is poor very poor, from sales to the service dept putting wrong oil in cars ,real silly billy backstreet motor stuff with a big price tag ,but after dealing with audi i cant applaude them enough so far

    has anyone seen the ad on tv for the new merc a class? the black car in the ad looks like they copied the black rs3
    #32
  34. shady-ninja
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    shady-ninja Active Member

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    [Oct 18, 2012]
    i would have to agree with you.
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  35. Dave Hedgehog
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    Dave Hedgehog Member

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    [Oct 19, 2012]
    I have watched it a couple of times, it certainly appears to be a deliberate hatchet job, clarkson would be proud of how he is over driving the 3 to exaggerate its handling characteristics (and destroy the tyres), the weight transfer from side to side of the car is pretty extreme, shame he didnt drive it as smouthly as the bimmer. The french lad lapping the ring and beating the M3 GTS shows what the car can do when driven smouthly.

    Shame he decided to take this route as i like monkey a lot [​IMG]

    Still its funny to watch him have a lewis hamilton moment [​IMG]


    And I have no agenda against the bimmer, I love the 1M coupe, came close to buying one, but i needed DSG and 5 doors, the 135 is bargain of the century although it will be close the 3 in price when the spec is similar and no doubt it will be a more pure driving experience but you will need some decent skill to get the most out of it, which i certainly dont have
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  36. sulaiman
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    [Oct 19, 2012]
    You must have an SE or **** tyres, having driven a 116d msport (old shape) it has the most direct steering of any other car I've experienced, and has no problems in the handling department. Ok its **** slow but one thing it does best is go in the direction that you point it whilst giving you feedback through the steering.
    #35
  37. Brett Butler
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    Brett Butler Member

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    [Oct 19, 2012]
    It is a Good test, and it reminded me why I cancelled my deposit on an RS3, though The RS3 has been known to be quicker standing start and in the real world and UK weather I would prefer an RS3, but 10k more than the BM, and an old Platform.
    I look forward to comparisons of the new AMG A class, think that will cream the lot of them around a track.
    #36
  38. JonnyG
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    JonnyG Active Member

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    [Oct 20, 2012]
    An interesting video .. and thanks for posting

    He seems a little one sided from the start ! but most of the points he makes on the RS3 have some truth in them IMHO (S mode apart!)

    I'd be interested to see the price comparison based on a very similar spec (as far as possible).

    However for me I'd never ever consider a powerful RWD for everyday use through a full 3 years ownership. I'm an AWD convert and will stick with them forever now. I note that EVO magazine ran a long term 1M and by the end of ownership the EVO writer was fed up with the lack of traction from the rear wheels.

    I don't doubt that the 135M is a great car to drive, but on a cold wet Winters night when you're travelling with the family, I know which car I'd prefer to be in, and that's a consideration most motoring journos seem to underestimate.
    #37
  39. Brett Butler
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    [Oct 20, 2012]
    Jonny G I sort of agree, though of late and due to my age I find it odd and do not know the reasons why but driving my 2010 S3 in the dark I find myself more and more thinking I really hate driving in the dark in this car the oncoming head lights etc just blinds me, I know it is part age but one thing makes me think, when I drive my Vito Sports van I do not have issues at all in the dark,,, is it the ride height or something windscreen related. So I think now maybe a large fast AWD higher, for night time, and bad weather, and the appealing 135M for fun and daytime, 38 to the gallon as well.

    Anyhow, I Ackknowledge and one thing I do love about Audi cars (only AWD) the saftey factor it is the best car as an all rounder, (put winter tyres on it too) and love the sound of the RS3 too. Still I wait for the new AMG A Class, or hope for a New A3 Saloon with the RS3 engine.
    #38
  40. fanshu
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    fanshu New Member

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    [Oct 22, 2012]

    Totally agreed with JonnyG, look at this video:

    That's why Quattro rules in rainy days... - VORSICHT Hong Kong

    I have driven both RWD, FWD and 4WD cars, I'm sure the next one I buy will still be a 4WD car.
    In HK, over 80% of people will drive the RS3 faster than M135i in city, we do not have those car racers skills. As some of the comments saying, what's the problem if the track time is in fact faster in such understeer condition? That means if we are able to make the understeer less by choice of tyres, or a Halex Controller, the RS3 is even more lovely!!!!
    #39
  41. P_G
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    [Oct 22, 2012]
    The comments on all the forums regarding this video Harris did are interesting. I still rate him as a reviewer more than most but then it is just a review. The M135 having PSS's and comments that the RS3 should have been the same are correct but then who's fault it that? Audi. Harris is given the cars as they are and drives them accordingly. I have no doubt a car on PSS's would have been better than Conti's as I do not rate them as tyres, let alone on a track. I do find it amusing however that the stats are glossed over with quick captions, says it all really

    Not being a great BM interior fan I'm not fussed about his comments on dated RS3 cabin etc, OK the A3 the RS3 is based on is 10 years old but I didn't put a deposit down on an RS3 for the cabin even though for me personally the ergonomics on Audi's are about as good as it gets. So I took some of his comments and left others.

    The M135i is no doubt a bargain of a car but I suspect most of us bought RS3's for the engine and its power delivery through the s-tronic box, AWD capability and brand prestige and what you get from it in roughly that order which the BM only ticks 1 or 2 of those boxes. The fact an M135i could go past me at 140+mph is neither here nor there unless in Germany but for the weather we get and the roads we have as an everyday proposition much like Harris said the RS3 is for me better and afterall, it can't be that bad becaause they are all sold? And as for the RS3 faaults which harris focused on the understeer, a decent set of tyres during ownershipa nd less than £1k on a set of ARB's and a Haldex controller would make it far more to Harris' and probably my liking. You'd need a lot more than that to make the 1 series visually appealing in my eyes.
    #40

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