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haldex performance controller

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by yuan2211, May 22, 2011.

  1. yuan2211
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    yuan2211 Member

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    [May 22, 2011]
    hey guys just wanted to know who's got one whats it like and most of all how much and where from.


    cheers
    #1
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  3. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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  4. yuan2211
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    yuan2211 Member

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    [May 23, 2011]
    :salute:
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  5. brough74
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    brough74 Member

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    [May 23, 2011]
    what about a reply on here ?

    As im intrested in getting one
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  6. jungleman
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    jungleman Well-Known Member

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    [May 23, 2011]
    its not really worth considering till youve got the rest of your suspension sorted, so either coilovers or uprated & matched dampers & springs as well as ARBs

    those alone will get rid of most of the understeer and the haldex controller will deal with most of the rest, its also transfers torque to the rear a lot faster then the OEM system, but you need the uprated suspension to make the most of it

    parts are about £700 plus a couple hours fitting

    thats me paraphrasing from conversations with and reading Alex's previous posts :)
    #5
  7. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [May 23, 2011]
    I think you'll find that the quoted price from the TT Shop is now about £1000 plus fitting.

    If you've already done the suspension,and got it set up properly,then the controller is worth having,but without it,I think you won't get anything like the most out of the investment.

    It does transfer torque faster,and in greater proportions to the rear wheels than the stock controller does,and whilst it may not be a totally obvious transformation,you will notice it if you switch back to stock,as the understeer is dialled out quite well by the performance and race modes.
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  8. jungleman
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    jungleman Well-Known Member

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    [May 23, 2011]
    AMD quote about £750 inc fitting
    #7
  9. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [May 23, 2011]
    I'd get down there right now then.!
    #8
  10. LWNY
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    LWNY Member

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    [May 23, 2011]
    If you make changes to the OEM suspension where it understeers less, then you will likely have other side effects like throttle lift oversteer, which to many will be much worse than some understeer. In a haldex based system, when changing suspension components like bigger RSB in order to make it have less understeer, you are actually the rear tires have less overall grip, thus balancing out the rear slip with the front slip. Thus you will have less overall grip, and having less rear grip will more easily upset the cars balance when lifting off the throttle, bringing the tail out.
    #9
  11. quattro81
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    quattro81 All the gear.. No idea

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    [May 23, 2011]
    I had this on my TT along with coil overs, ARB'S, bushes, spacers, and engine mounts.. And I can honestly say it made as much difference as the coil overs, if not more.. I would agree that you need these parts to take full advantage, however I MASSIVELY disagree that these mods will result in less grip, that's just ****** if you'd excuse my French.. The standard setup is designed to be safe for the average driver who finds understeer a lot more of a predictable characteristic in a lack of grip situation.. If you are a confident experienced driver, give me this setup any day against standard and you will whip someone with the oem setup....... My 2pennies mate
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  12. LWNY
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    LWNY Member

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    [May 24, 2011]
    There is tradeoff in designs of all suspensions. Balancing the understeer with more oversteer might give a neutral feel in all out cornering, but throttle lift will cause even less grip to the rear wheels, where in normal suspension setup, might not result in any unexpected resullt, but if the rear were at the edge of its grip, then the tail will much more likely slip out.

    As you can see with the RS3 setup, they didn't tune the understeer out by putting fat RSB (which results in less rear grip and worse rear suspension). They put fatter 235 tires in the front to get more front grip. They even allow an optional 255 front tires to give more front grip relative to the rear.

    Why do you think the old Golfs with the semi trailing arm were so loved for their handling? It was because the semi-independent rear suspension lifted the inner rear tire durig cornering, resulting in vastly less rear grip, balancing the front understeer with rear oversteer.
    #11
  13. quattro81
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    quattro81 All the gear.. No idea

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    [May 24, 2011]
    The old golf! One of the cars (although one of my favourites) that is prone to the most massive scary lift off oversteer! (typo lol) of any FWD I've ever driven, youre talking techno garbage now dude.. It's just nonsense.. Ask anyone on here with coilys and arbs and I'm sure they won't tell you their car handles worse!! lol.. The trade off you get with these components is generally a shorter life on them due to them being stiffer and transferring more stress on our **** roads... Have you ever driven a car with a haldex performance controller out of interest?
    Last edited: May 24, 2011
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  14. LWNY
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    LWNY Member

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    [May 24, 2011]
    You mean lift off oversteer. which is exactly what I am saying. Less traction in the rear to balance off the front understeer, when the front understeer disappears (as in lifting the throttle), will result in oversteer.

    Suspension setup will not improve the oversteer/understeer capability, if it does affect it, it will exacerbate the problem since turn in will be much faster, increasing initial understeer, whose traction you might never regain given this is a FWD based 4WD system.

    What I am discussing is what people here say suspension will make the car feel more quattro than the haldex performance controller. The only suspension that might affect that is fatter RSB, which has negative consequences. If you got a fat rear rollbar, go to a turnabout or an empty lot and spin around it at a high speed. When you suddenly lift off the throttle, the sudden weight shift will have a higher chance of spinning the tail around than a suspension w/o the fatter rear rollbar.

    RS3 coming out with fatter fronts proves the case. They could have just gotten with thicker rear ARB, but they didnt.

    I got a haldex performance controller on my car, and I've driven it hard in the snow, rain and dry. Tested haldex in all scenarios, such as brake and sudden smash of throttle in mid corner, light throttle then mash the throttle....
    #13
  15. quattro81
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    quattro81 All the gear.. No idea

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    [May 24, 2011]
    Jungle man never said that coil overs increased oversteer, he said the arbs can affect it which is 100% correct.. But why would you want to lift off mid corner, that's just bad driving, if you do that in a Lamborghini gallardo you will find yourself facing the wrong way in a cloud of smoke wit your instructor bollocking you lol.....! I think h&r might disagree with you about a fatter arb at the rear having a negative effect too...... Either way the haldex performance controller I had was an excellent mod and worth every penny.. Lke I said coilys, arbs, haldex, stiffer bushes etc and the quattros handle like they should, but you best have half a clue bout driving or beware lol..
    #14
  16. eddyd
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    eddyd Member

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    [May 24, 2011]
    LWNY is perfectly correct in my opinion.
    What I take from it is that stiffer rear arb=less rear grip. Lift of oversteer proves this, simple.

    There is plenty of info online on this and thicker arbs are definitely not always better.
    I have a quattro with H&R springs and arb's and at the stiff setting(front and rear) imo there is less overall grip, but less body roll makes the car feel nicer to drive.
    #15
  17. quattro81
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    quattro81 All the gear.. No idea

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    [May 25, 2011]
    Ok you guys win.. We're arguing different points here so I give up.. Have a smoke for me :drag: when you've finished making love to each other :sex: lol from the chairman of the fatter rear anti roll bars are better society...:p
    Last edited: May 25, 2011
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  18. tcardio
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    tcardio Active Member

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    [May 25, 2011]
    as I have said before Race Mode HPA GEN IV plus HPA DSG flash puts a smile on my face everyday
    #17
  19. quattro81
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    quattro81 All the gear.. No idea

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    [May 25, 2011]
    I can't wait!!
    #18
  20. eddyd
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    eddyd Member

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    [May 25, 2011]
    If you actually read through the posts you replied to you would be on the same point lol.

    The pros and cons of thicker arb's are quite simple, a little research before such agressive replies would go a long way.
    Upgraded rear arb does the job of making the car oversteer but there is always a trade off!(there may be a happy medium though)

    A performance controller imo would have less of a trade off as it really does make the rear end more lively.
    #19
  21. quattro81
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    quattro81 All the gear.. No idea

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    [May 25, 2011]
    er.. never once did i say anthing to disagree with the fact that a fatter arb at the rear would create oversteer.. i just really don't agree that this has a "negative effect".. faster turn in and less understeer is surely what you'd be aiming for? not the safety orientated standard setup.. otherwise why are we on a modding forum?:uhm:
    #20
  22. quattro81
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    quattro81 All the gear.. No idea

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    [May 25, 2011]
    and adding a fatter rear anti roll bar does not simply make the car grip less at the back:haha:.. i think you are the one who needs to do a little more research lol
    #21
  23. LWNY
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    LWNY Member

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    [May 25, 2011]
    Adding rear ARB makes the inner rear wheel have less grip and eventually lift if the ARB is big enough. Besides lift oversteer, you will also be giving a driving wheel less grip, and likely for it to spin given it having less grip than the outer rear wheel. With the rear open diff, you basically will lose power to all the rear wheels.

    Anyway, as eddyd said, the haldex controller gives the rear wheel more driving power. Suspension upgrade doesn't do much to overall balance of the car. rear ARB give the tail less grip, thus giving the impression of more balance, at the same time having unintended side effects. Some might like that effect cuz it take the tail out, but then some like to pull the parking brakes to do drifting too.
    #22
  24. eddyd
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    eddyd Member

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    [May 25, 2011]
    If I have lift off oversteer that I didn't have before, surely the rear cannot have as much grip?
    Enlighten me with your knowledge.
    #23
  25. quattro81
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    quattro81 All the gear.. No idea

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    [May 25, 2011]
    This I totally agree with.. all of it.. settled?
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  26. quattro81
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    quattro81 All the gear.. No idea

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    [May 25, 2011]
    This I also agree with, but this is not ALL stiffening the rear arb does...
    #25
  27. eddyd
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    eddyd Member

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    [May 25, 2011]
    Yes afaik stiffening the rear will decrease the load transfer on the front(increase on the rear) and so more grip at the front and less at the rear. The danger comes from 1) It's not a "safe" handling car for the inexperienced and 2) There is a danger that if it is too thick an arb, the outside rear will become overloaded (inside rear not loaded at all)too easily producing oversteer, while at the front the wheels are nowhere near overloading. In this scenario there is less overall grip.
    Another thing to consider is that arb's go against the principle of independent suspension, but are necessary because of the high centre of gravity, so possibly the softest possible set up front and rear would be best?(That doesn't upset the suspension geometry too much when cornering)
    I'm not an expert but this is how I understand it anyway.

    Basically I'm saying just be careful and I'm sure there is alot more too it than above aswell.
    #26
  28. LWNY
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    LWNY Member

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    [May 26, 2011]
    ARBs are a trade-off that makes independent suspension less independent. The body my roll less, but the desire for the chassis to roll in the corner translates into more load on the outer wheels. That is why McLaren came out with the ARB-less car, which uses other technology to prevent rolling of the chassis.
    #27
  29. A3SBQ
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    A3SBQ A3 SportBack 2TFSI quattro DSG

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    [Dec 11, 2011]
    Let it snow, let it snow...

    I would like to bring up this thread again.
    This time lets talking about the Haldex performance controller. I am about to order.

    What kind of switching method do you use? Wire with a switch or the remote controlled one?

    I am all for the stock look, and do not want any odd looking switch in my dash. A nice switch to be integrated in the centre console that is easy to activate would be perfect. Something tike the Sport button for the magnetic ride suspension or a switch like for the heated seats. 1-2-3 to select the complete program.

    Does any one have the cable switch type? I've would like to know if it is only a 4 wire switch, where on is common to be switched on to the three others in steps. If this is the case a new stock like switch should be easy to fine. Or?

    If some one have a picture of there setup to post I would be happy.

    The snow is falling down, and I will be reunited with my car in 10 days. can't wait to test here.
    My care is equipped with the Haldex 4 generation. I have only tested the Haldex 2gen on the snow. Any one with experience on this in the stock setup?

    J
    #28
  30. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Dec 11, 2011]
    Mine uses the switch...it's mounted in the little pocket by the right hand side of the steering wheel,and unless you get down on the floor and look for it,you wouldn't see it.
    #29
  31. A3SBQ
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    A3SBQ A3 SportBack 2TFSI quattro DSG

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    [Dec 11, 2011]
    Thanks S3Alex

    how is it during changes of the program?
    Can it be don on the fly or only during startup?

    Hase any on filmed the different on snow?
    #30
  32. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Dec 12, 2011]
    It can be done whilst running.....it's also recommended not to run it in race mode continuously,but I can't say whether the transfer box wear I had on mine was down to that or simply the torque it's now running!
    If you've already done the suspension,then it will dial out most of the remaining understeer and definitely aids traction.
    #31
  33. Gavin0478
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    Gavin0478 Active Member

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    [Dec 12, 2011]
    I've prob missed it somewhere but what sort of torque are you running and is this on a manual or a dsg?
    #32
  34. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    [Dec 13, 2011]
    Manual,about 460bhp and 440lbs.
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