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Governments response to speed camera petition

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by AndyMac, Jun 28, 2007.

  1. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jun 28, 2007]
    And we say they never listen to us! What a crock of shyte!
    "Thank you for taking the time to register your views about safety cameras on the Number 10 website.
    Speeding kills. It is a contributory factor in 26% of all fatal accidents in Great Britain.
    The facts are stark. If a child pedestrian is hit at 30mph they stand an 80% chance of surviving. But if they are hit at 40mph they stand an 80% chance of dying. That is why the Government is committed to achieving appropriate vehicle speeds on the roads as part of its integrated road safety strategy.
    We are succeeding in changing attitudes, and in making drivers realise that one of their responsibilities is to comply with speed limits. The proportion of car drivers who comply with the 30mph limit has greatly increased over the last few years.
    Safety cameras provide a valuable and cost-effective method of preventing, detecting and enforcing speed and traffic light offences. Their use is based on solid evidence. All reliable research from around the world clearly demonstrates that cameras reduce speeds and save lives.
    Independent research (new window), published in December 2005, shows that safety cameras had saved around 1,745 people from being killed or seriously injured, and had prevented around 4,230 personal injury collisions on Britain's roads each year.
    And while they are saving lives, safety cameras will remain a key part of our road safety strategy."
    Where they got those stats from is anyones guess, they certainly don't bear any relation to the independent research done by TRRL or even the published stats on road deaths and serious injury published by the police & hospitals.

    What amazes me is the latest "speeding kills" TV ad, with the little girl by the road side. The message is, hit me at 30 and I'll live, hit me at 40 and I'll die. Shouldn't the message be more about "not hitting me at all"?
    It's like they have no regard for improving the standard of driving, just resigned to the fact that drivers in the UK are terrible, so if we slow them down at least they'll do less damage.
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  3. NEiLS3LK51
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    NEiLS3LK51 Member

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    [Jun 28, 2007]
    I'd have to question these 30/40 mph statistics.

    How many kids did they run into in the laboratory at precisely 30 mph and 40 mph to produce these figures?
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  4. rodenal
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    rodenal Active Member

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    [Jun 28, 2007]
    I know what you mean about the statistics i've thought the same about the 30/40mph stuff. To be honest though thats not the point, in areas where kids are running about 30 or less is a far more sensible speed to be doing there's no questioning that.

    I like the way that government like to tell us what our own opinions are, and back it up with the same argument that we have already told them we dont agree with, idiots.
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  5. Beerzo
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    Beerzo Masa'warty 3200... Talk To Me!

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    [Jun 28, 2007]
    Also they are still using the highway code breaking distances from back in the 70's (i think).

    Modern cars have probably halved the distance that they tell you it takes to stop. Its just a big area that they will not go into. Topgear stated at one point that there were more cameras on the roads than ever and that the number of people killed on the roads went up so where is the governments logic.
    Also i agree with putting speed cameras up on routes where there is a danger to pedestrians or other drivers or areas where there has been numerous crashes. How many people have seen a GATO so in said place. I totally disagree with is the road side vans. Their pure purpose is a money making scheme.
    The fixed cameras people get to know and will slow down on approach and accelerate after them. So I bet they don't make a 1/4 of the money from them as they do with road side vans.
    From my experience on the vans they never tend to be in the same place twice and are often on random stretches of roads that 99% of people will be doing more than the speed limit but in no way en-dangering other people with exessive speed.
    I seen one recently on a stretch of road that was a 30 mph limit but there are nothing but fields at the side of the road no hedges or houses or kiddies running about and the road is striaght no tight bends. So they obvious sat the fecking thing their to get their numbers up.

    RANT OVER! LOL
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  6. Caesium
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    Caesium My BM is fixed!

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    [Jun 28, 2007]
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  7. SteveS
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    SteveS S6 avant

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    [Jun 28, 2007]
    i agree. which would you rather your child was hit by - a modern car with plastic bumpers, headlamps etc at 40mph ?

    or an 18 wheeler at 30 mph ?

    in my opinion speed is not completly relevant. a good fit young driver could stop a decent new car with new tyres and abs from 40mph quicker than an 80 year old pensioner in a 1983 metro could react at just 30mph.

    its all b*llocks!
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  8. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jun 28, 2007]
    There was footage on Road Wars or similar the other night. An 80 year old woman managed to overturn her car on the forecourt of a petrol station! These are people with driving licences!
    They were also using physical tests on drivers to see if they were high on something, like they do in the states. I doubt any OAP could have performed them satisfactorily whether high or not.
    You can't drink & drive as it drastically effects your reaction time, perception etc etc. Basically exactly the same as the effect of old age, yet they do not even need a retest.
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  9. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jun 28, 2007]
    I don't really have an issue with fixed speed camera's as such. My issue is with the whole obssession with speeding that the speed camera epidemic has created. This is to the exclusion of all the major causes of accidents and death on the roads, as they have to be seen to be justifying the 6000+ camera's on our roads.
    It's amazing how quickly they can stick up a network of 20 SPECs camera's on a section of roadworks on the motorway, and the infrastructure behind them, but then take months to replace the crash barriers the roadworks are there for.

    I also have an issue with their stats.
    "It is a contributory factor in 26% of all fatal accidents in Great Britain"
    Does this exclude motorbikes, does this exclude joy riders, drunk drivers, drugged drivers, stolen cars in a police chase? None of which are addressed by speed camera's.
    I'm pretty sure it doesn't, which makes the stat totally fraudulent IMO.
    When TRRL did the research it concluded that only 7% of serious accidents/deaths on the road were speeding related.
    If we could get away from this speed obsession there might actually be bandwidth to address some of the real causes.
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  10. Caesium
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    Caesium My BM is fixed!

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    [Jun 28, 2007]
    I agree with you 100% Speed cameras suck, there should be more police about to catch the dangerous drivers, the driving I see on a daily basis is enough to make me want to sign up as a copper just so I can go and bust some of the pricks!
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  11. Beerzo
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    Beerzo Masa'warty 3200... Talk To Me!

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    [Jun 29, 2007]
    Totally agree with this, the amount of times that I have nearly been taken out by an old person is un-real.

    I was in a petrol station one time and waiting in a queue to use the air pump. The old guy in front took the generic 8 minutes getting in the car then a further 4 or so to get it started. Then to my complete shock instead of driving forward and out, he decides to stick the car in reverse and starts moving towards me I toot the horn still no reaction i then stick mine into reverse and move back until i cant any more and he keeps coming by this point i am shitting myself and wanting to kill this guy all at once. I hold the horn on solid and at the last second the whole car jerks as he finally sees me and stabs the breaks. He then proceeds to drive over next to a pump and then walks over casually saying o sorry never seen you there. I said Yeah, u never seen me when i was 15 feet further forward either i take it.

    Seemingly statistics say that older people are involved in more accidents than younger people, but as there are less of them on the road the insurance companies hide behind dated statistics saying young people are more at risk as there is more of them on the road and they can charge them the high premiums.

    Totally agree that once you hit bus pass age at the oldest that you should be made to regularly sit a proficiency test say every year. To make sure physically and mentally your able to drive a car.

    Did anyone see Britains worst driver a year or two back when they through a cardboard cut out of Quentin Wilson in front of the old guys car to be treated as a real pedestrian. The old guy ploughed right over it and then after a wee bit said to the passenger or himself "did i hit something there."

    Will give the guy the benefit that we all want to hit Quentin Wilson in a car.
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  12. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jun 29, 2007]
    Driving up the wrong side of a motorway seems to be their favorite trick. Seems to happen every month, don't know if its the same guy.
    What makes me laugh is the way the police treat these drivers - "ha ha poor old guy got confused, no harm done". I don't remember them being so relaxed when I've been stopped just for speeding on the motorway. They don't even prosecute most of them.
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  13. motorbikez
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    motorbikez Active Member

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    [Jun 29, 2007]
    ("It is a contributory factor in 26% of all fatal accidents in Great Britain"
    Does this exclude motorbikes, does this exclude joy riders, drunk drivers, drugged drivers, stolen cars in a police chase? None of which are addressed by speed camera's.)

    Regarding motorcycles
    I also have an issue with stats.The government commission on intelligent speed adaption identified in 2005 that only 4% of fatalities and serious injuries were due to speeding and 9% of fatalities and SRIs were due to inappropriate speed for prevaling road conditions.These are a governments commitees own figures so where 26% comes from I haven't a clue.
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  14. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jun 29, 2007]
    So from that we could blinkeredly deduce that the speed kills campaign/speed camera policy has increased fatalities and SRI's from 9% to 26% in just 18 months - what a result! I'm sure Mr Darling and Mr Ladyboy are very proud.
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  15. motorbikez
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    motorbikez Active Member

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    [Jun 30, 2007]
    absolutely one government dept says one thing another something else and the scamera partenerships trot out the worst figures to justify their presence on the planet.
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