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got my s3 dyno'd today.

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by S4 Omz, Jul 15, 2008.

  1. S4 Omz
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    S4 Omz top gear

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    [Jul 15, 2008]
    took my s3 for the revo stage 2 today.

    there was a slight problem as revo said they dint have the stage 2 map for my ecu but they would put 1 together for next week.

    so i decided to put in on the dyno and see how much power it was producing with the standard map but with the following mods :-

    miltek cat back (saving up for the downpipe ££££)
    carbonio induction
    forge replacement valve

    it made 270bhp.

    i also got the free trial revo software(stage 1) but the tuner said this would only be 90% power and thats why it only made 286bhp on the dyno. according to my calculations that would be 317bhp(stage 1)

    i will post graphs up later on tonight.

    omar
    #1
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  3. phantom
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    phantom On Boost

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    [Jul 15, 2008]
    100% fiddle. Unless your car is poorly ( one of your three mod's is costing you power )

    Classic example of a tuner who is selling you something , showing you " good gains " from there product.

    IMHO

    p
    #2
  4. DaveMK^
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    DaveMK^ Member

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    [Jul 15, 2008]
    Its 90% of what you get when you get the full thing, So if the full version gives you 50bhp the trial (90%) gives you 45bhp.

    So your calculation is way off :) Its more like 290 if your lucky.
    #3
  5. Iggu
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    Iggu Active Member

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    [Jul 15, 2008]
    Something well fishy there S3 Omar. Without going over old ground (search "Prosport" in the threads) 270 bhp for a standard car is unusually low and 286 bhp after a Revo remap (even at 90%) is frankly *****.
    #4
  6. rabs
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    rabs Revo

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    [Jul 15, 2008]

    What settings did he use for boost and timing ? Did you take it for a nice drive after having the trial was loaded or was it straight back on the rollers ? ECU takes quite a few miles to adapt up with any new ECU software.

    Interesting
    #5
  7. S4 Omz
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    S4 Omz top gear

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    [Jul 15, 2008]
    not 90% of 50bhp. 90% of the total 286 x 90/100 = 317.

    wel i will let you the final figures wen its done.
    #6
  8. S4 Omz
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    S4 Omz top gear

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    [Jul 15, 2008]
    its only a trial map.

    the standard car is only 260 so how is 270 with the standard map and just a few bolt on extras too slow?
    #7
  9. S4 Omz
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    S4 Omz top gear

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    [Jul 15, 2008]
    dont know about what settings were used. the car was dyno'd standard then the trial software was loaded the dyno'd again. it stayed on the rollers all the time. i dont know what the problem is if there is 1? seems ok 2 me. can you confirm tat the trial software is only 90% of the full power??

    thanks

    omar
    #8
  10. S4 Omz
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    S4 Omz top gear

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    [Jul 15, 2008]
    yeh but even 90% of 50 bhp is 45bhp + 270 bhp is 315bhp not your 290bhp that you stating. its a 2007 s3 m8.
    #9
  11. S4 Omz
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    S4 Omz top gear

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    [Jul 15, 2008]
    dont understand what you trying to say. please explain
    #10
  12. EAGLE79
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    EAGLE79 Member

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    [Jul 15, 2008]
    Mate the above calculation is wrong, that only gives you a total of 257.4....

    you can either do 286/100 = 2.86, then 2.86 x 110 gives you 314.6. This then factors in your extra 10% on the total.

    But looking at it from a different angle!

    If its only 90% of the extra offered from the map and we say the full hit would give you 310BHP (example only) then

    310 - 270 (your standard map) leaves 40 BHP, that 40/ 100 = 0.4

    That 0.4 x 90 (for the 90% statement) = 36 BHP

    Add the 36 BHP to your 270 and you get 306BHP....

    Something not right about that matey but i'm no maths expert and could be wrong.... (wouldn't be the first time! LOL)

    Anyone agree disagree with me?
    #11
  13. Iggu
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    Iggu Active Member

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    [Jul 15, 2008]
    260 is what the manual says - 285 is what the dynos say for Standard 8P S3s (like I said search "Prosport" for examples). I think that's what Phantom means when he says something is costing you power if your modded car is putting less than a lot of Standard cars on here.
    #12
  14. EAGLE79
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    EAGLE79 Member

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    [Jul 15, 2008]
    What he's saying is that the right honourable gentlemen could be fudging your figures to get a sale on the remap...... not an un-common practice.

    Look at your low BHP and look what it could have! get or drift?
    #13
  15. rabs
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    rabs Revo

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    [Jul 15, 2008]
    I have to be careful what i say, but if any of you guy have a remap done by any company take the car for a nice long drive before any power figures are taken, the ECU adapts all the time so when you load on a new map it is at it's lowest setting.
    I normally find on new remaps that they are not getting to optimum until at least 30 mins of driving time.

    Sometimes i can map a car and not feel much of a difference until after the 3rd or 4th run...it really does take a while to adapt...trust me. Having it put on the rollers straight after has not done you any favours.

    You are right the trial will only give you 90%, but the settings used and no adaptation will be the biggest reason for the poor show.

    I bet you have found it is getting quicker on your route home.
    #14
  16. S4 Omz
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    S4 Omz top gear

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    [Jul 15, 2008]
    sorry meant to say 286 /90 x 100 = 317
    #15
  17. Iggu
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    Iggu Active Member

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    [Jul 15, 2008]
    I agree with you Eagle. The tuner is obviously quoting 90% of the GAIN - nothing else makes sense. He's saying the map at the moment is only delivering 90% of what it should. So if 16bhp (286 - 270) is 90% then 100% will give you 18 bhp (16 x 90/100) which equals a total of 288 bhp.

    Either way S3 Omar - its fishy. Go somewhere else before spending any money.
    #16
  18. S4 Omz
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    S4 Omz top gear

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    [Jul 15, 2008]
    so your saying 270bhp for a s3 is low? standard is only 260bhp. its only got a cat back and an induction. the extras wont add any bhp until its been mapped correctly.

    when i get the stage 2+ next week will let you know the figures. then tell if there low or not.

    its not like he was trying to sell me anything the car was already booked in for a stage2. hes my local revo dealer and has also done some work on my 410bhp evo IX MR
    #17
  19. Iggu
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    Iggu Active Member

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    [Jul 15, 2008]
    YES ! Very low. Like I keep saying - search "Prosport" and read the whole thread. It IS low mate !
    #18
  20. S4 Omz
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    S4 Omz top gear

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    [Jul 15, 2008]
    this guy is one of the best evo tuners in the uk am sure a little s3 is a piece of p"$$ for him. wouldnt trust any1 else with my car. like av said b4 in the post i will let every1 know how i get on when the car is mapped with the stage 2.
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  21. phantom
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    phantom On Boost

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    [Jul 15, 2008]
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  22. S4 Omz
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    S4 Omz top gear

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    [Jul 15, 2008]
    awesome use a different dyo to the 1 used by my car. dont know if prosport use the same aswell. my car was dyno' d on dd rollers.

    am sure my car on them rollers would produce that power aswell.
    #21
  23. phantom
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    phantom On Boost

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    [Jul 15, 2008]
    Ok mate.

    The TSFI engaine ( S3 , Cupra , ED 30 ) is known to put out 20+bhp on rollers all over the country.

    Do you use V-power / Tesco 99 fuel?

    p
    #22
  24. Spin140
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    Spin140 Active Member

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    [Jul 15, 2008]
    I think you guys pissed on his parade !! :)
    #23
  25. Iggu
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    Iggu Active Member

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    [Jul 15, 2008]
    Not intentional - from what I've seen REVO offer the biggest gains of any tuner. But this particular franchise (an evo specialist rather than VAG specialist) just seemed to be talking ****. Don't want to see the fella getting ripped off !
    #24
  26. PaulAr
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    PaulAr S3 (8P)

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    [Jul 15, 2008]
    To be fair, the whole issue of S3s making way over book figures us hard to get your head around.

    Having not seen the previous threads on this subject and just heard this in the pub I would have though some one was having a laugh.

    I still cant understand why AUDI would `hide` the real figures though?

    Maybe its a whole `trade descriptions `issue and they quote figures based on a `poor` example and cack fuel on a bad day etc...so no-one can kick up a fuss when their car `only` make 261.5ps or whatever, and opening the floodgates for a league of whingers.
    Maybe this is the `worst` figure produced during development and therefore is a safe number?
    Who knows.

    S3 OMAR - IMO you are rightly sceptical, Im sort of convinced now purely based on the `evidence` presented here.
    I guess you cant ignore the same consistent RR figures across a range of tuners and owners and thats what the guys here have seen.

    Still think its very odd though and Im almost a little disappointed as the remapped vs Standard headline figures now dont look as dramatic on paper.

    That said, as long as the car clears the 300bhp mark then thats a real world, rapid, tractable, 5 seater weapon, whichever way you look at it.

    Good luck with the REVO remap, Ive had excellent experience and service with REVO and both my Golfs felt completely transformed the minute it was mapped.
    Well recomended if not cheap.
    I think REVO need to look again at their pricing.

    Thats My 2p anyway

    Cheers
    Paul
    #25
  27. phantom
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    phantom On Boost

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    [Jul 15, 2008]
    Somebody mentioned the other week about having a sticky thread about the Std out put figures so new members see it right away and are armed with the facts before they go to ANY tuner and pay there money.

    We know the Std cars are putting out alot more than book , but you still get 300 and odd bhp after a remap and most people won't even bother with a before and after run anyway!

    Look at Statller the most used tuner on on the forum , they don't even have a rolling road!

    A new sticky saying STD S3 280+BHP in the title.

    p
    #26
  28. newbiecrg
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    newbiecrg windsurfer

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    [Jul 15, 2008]
    forget bhp figures they will never be objective, depend on rolling road spec and calibration.... I am a lot more interested in pre and post remap comparisons!!! Those are more accurate...


    Also this figures are like mine is bigger than yours kind of talk... maybe, just maybe S3 Omar car would leve you behind on a standing start!!! And you are producing 300+bhp... That would be a story...

    Pedro
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  29. jamiekip
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    jamiekip Guest

    [Jul 15, 2008]
    S3 Omar - fist of all welcome to the dragons den! :ohmy:

    Just kidding, we're a good bunch really, but I notice you're pretty new to this forum, so welcome on board. :thumbsup:
    There is HUGE debate about the standard output of the new S3, but several rolling roads have consistantly demonstrated high figures for standard cars, and not quite the anticipated gains for mapped cars (albeit bar Revo which produced over what was expected!).
    What I would consider, in my personal view is the gain you see between standard and mapped on what ever rolling road y use. If after your stage 2, you're seeing a lift from 270bhp, to 320bhp - happy days.
    On another day, on another roller that may translate to 280bhp standard and 330bhp mapped!

    As has been said before - it's a rolling road lottery in terms of actuals. What the prosport day demonstrated is that the differential between standard and mapped is not as great as some would have us believe!

    Enojy the motor and keep us posted with how you get on.

    J
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  30. PaulAr
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    PaulAr S3 (8P)

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    [Jul 15, 2008]
    Good idea.

    Ive never questioned previous REVO figures, and never felt the need to. Never felt the need to put it on a RR, never felt the need to put it against a stock car to prove to myself it was quicker.

    Basically, I drove my std 200ps Golf into the local REVO agent (Alan Fishburn-The Golf Centre, Darlington).

    And drove out with a significantly quicker car with not reason at all to believe that the car wasnt achieving REVOs figures at 250bhp 300ish of those mythical torque things.

    Did what it said on the tin.
    Simple as that.

    Thats what a remap on a Turbo car should feel like.


    Cheers
    Paul
    #29
  31. phantom
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    phantom On Boost

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    [Jul 15, 2008]
    Rubbish Pedro , whats a matter with you? no jelly for afters?

    The fella thinks he's getting a good deal ( he's still getting 300+bhp ) but he's not getting the 50bhp gain he's paying for.

    He may not think it's worth £500,600,700,800+ for a remap when he knows Std cars put out more than book.

    Yes some RR can vary.

    Nowhere in this thread has anybody give it the " mine is bigger than yours " kind of talk.

    p
    #30
  32. julians
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    julians Member

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    [Jul 15, 2008]
    I dont think it matters where you buy your revo map from. They're all the same map. A revo map from prosport will be the same map as from this guys tuner.
    #31
  33. DaveMK^
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    DaveMK^ Member

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    [Jul 15, 2008]
    yes you are correct but your car did not make an extra 45bhp from the trial map did it. I am using percentages of what your car made and an extra 10% of what you made on the trial is 1.6bhp.
    #32
  34. PaulAr
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    PaulAr S3 (8P)

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    [Jul 15, 2008]
    Absolutely agree.

    A generic map, should be generic.
    Many tuners, installing identical and proven software.
    #33
  35. phantom
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    phantom On Boost

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    [Jul 15, 2008]
    I think this thread as got a bit lost , Me and Iggu was trying to make S3 OMAR aware that S3's make more than claimed , in his case 270bhp , with other mods.

    I 100% agree that he will get 320bhp from his Revo map ( wherever he gets it put on )

    p
    #34
  36. S3 Big Andy
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    S3 Big Andy Stealth Beast Baby Yay

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    [Jul 15, 2008]
    This is what the guy from AD superchips did to mine he took it for a run before letting me have it said they adapt to your driving style!
    #35
  37. jamiekip
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    jamiekip Guest

    [Jul 15, 2008]
    Sorry dude - on the rollers he was on, he may see 300bhp, on the rollers you were on he may see 320bhp.
    Rolling roads are a lottery - I think most will agree.
    What was interesting from the prosport day was the fact the gains between all the standard cars and the modd'd cars were nowhere near what was expected.

    I'm not discounting the figures - its the gains that should be focussed on.
    And I agree, the 'trial' software quotes of 90% given to S3 Omar are a little confusing.
    For starters why let some one trial 90% of the proposed output or 90% of the gain, what ever they said.... just give them 100% and show a customer what they can expect!!!! Weird!

    I agree with your warning though - be careful and make sure you get the 'gains' you're expecting!!!!

    :thumbsup:
    #36
  38. S3 Big Andy
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    S3 Big Andy Stealth Beast Baby Yay

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    [Jul 15, 2008]
    It is not really the tuners falut though if they are saying 50bhp gain from std, but a car is giving over that already, what they should say is it will give you 300,310 300 bhp etc so you know what you will have.
    I was told mine would go to about 310 bhp, once tested with the full milltek on I got 328.5 bhp, not a bad gain even from 280!
    #37
  39. jamiekip
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    jamiekip Guest

    [Jul 15, 2008]
    Agree with you mate - you'd like to think they test a standard car to get their 'base' findings and then show the increase they get on base?????
    Instead it seems manufacturers quotes is used......
    #38
  40. phantom
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    phantom On Boost

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    [Jul 15, 2008]
    I wasn't 100% guaranteeing that he would get 320bhp , i was 100% agreeing with Julains and PaulAr that he would get 3??bhp or whatever Revo give for there remap with the mods he has.

    :icon_thumright:

    p
    #39
  41. S4 Omz
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    S4 Omz top gear

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    [Jul 15, 2008]
    i probably would even with my down on power s3

    omar
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