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Good & Bad Fuel Economy 1.6TDI

Discussion in 'New A3/S3 (8V Chassis)' started by Flugel Hound, Dec 16, 2013.

  1. cuke2u
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    cuke2u Well-Known Member

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    [Dec 23, 2013]
    No car I've had remapped had ever failed an mot, thus they have been perfectly legal to use. I doubt if 'type approval' has any legal legitimancy at all. I have also been able to reprogram my mk3 focus's ecu at will...
    #41
  2. Daveotto
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    Daveotto Well-Known Member

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    [Dec 23, 2013]
    Not disputing that you have not had any problem with MOT's on remapped cars but....as a word of caution passing an MOT does not mean your car is street legal
    #42
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  3. cuke2u
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    cuke2u Well-Known Member

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    [Dec 23, 2013]
    Pray tell me if my cars pass mot's and my insurance company knows about the modification what on earth makes it illegal to use on our roads? Please elighten me...
    #43
  4. PilotAudi
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    PilotAudi New Member

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    [Dec 23, 2013]
    You have to tell you insurer about mods . Tick
    You comply with all appropriate regs etc . Tick

    If so what's the problem?
    #44
  5. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Dec 23, 2013]
    All vehicles used on the roads in the UK have to comply with The Road Vehicle (Construction and Use) Regulations. The EU Type Approval system is the way that manufacturers show that their vehicles comply with these regulations and all the equivalent regulations for all the other European countries without each country having to test each vehicle. Type Approval does therefore have a very legal status.

    The current MOT introduced in 2012 does not include a specific reference to 'remapped' engines but there is a proposal being considered at the moment that basically says, any kind of modification could mean the car fails the MOT. If the proposal gets the green light then "components of the vehicle must comply with characteristics at the time of first registration" effectively outlawing any deviation from the factory specification. This would make the rest of the EU the same as the situation in Germany. Any car fitted or modified in any way that is not TUV (the German car testing authority) approved would mean the car would fail an MOT. This would include remapping, wheels, bodykits, headlights and even towbars.

    This could mean that, if these changes are implemented, a car that is new today and is remapped could fail the MOT in three years time.
    #45
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  6. Daveotto
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    Daveotto Well-Known Member

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    [Dec 23, 2013]

    This is a general statement regarding road worthiness not any challenge to your modification.....sorry officer I have an MoT does not preclude you from failing any number of the complex laws that govern the road worthiness of your car. For example most after market fitted xenon lights are in effect illegal as there is no self leveling mechanism or compulsory headlight washing system.

    the saving grace is that at least we don't have to put up with some of the stupid French rules of the road.
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2013
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  7. J6YAK
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    J6YAK Active Member

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    [Dec 23, 2013]
    Interesting!

    Answer- trade in before the the first MOT!!
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  8. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Dec 23, 2013]
    If the proposal does happen before three years and you know your car has been remapped, could that mean you know you are selling a car that you know is illegal. Interesting!!

    Remapping of new cars is getting harder and harder as the manufacturers try to stop it. If this proposal goes ahead it could mean remapping becomes a lot more expensive as each 'remapper' would have to have their particular map tested and approved for each vehicle.
    #48
  9. cuke2u
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    cuke2u Well-Known Member

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    [Dec 23, 2013]
    Type approval is for manufacturers to demonstrate their cars meet a certain criterea not owners or drivers. As long as the cars are roadworthy, safe and legal and not being driven in a dangerous manner then no 'officers of the law' can do anything as they have no juristriction...
    #49
  10. Daveotto
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    Daveotto Well-Known Member

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    [Dec 23, 2013]
    That's my original point having an MoT does not necessarily mean your car is roadworthy....think we are agreed and maybe splitting hairs
    #50
  11. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Dec 23, 2013]
    I generally agree, but 'officers of the law' can issue a ticket for a driver to have a car checked at an MOT station if they consider a item on the car is not in accordance with the Roads Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations. This obviously would not apply to a remapped engine but could, for example, apply to the fitting of 'poor' aftermarket HID units without washers and self-levelling.
    #51
  12. cuke2u
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    cuke2u Well-Known Member

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    [Dec 24, 2013]
    But we are talking remaps here not some 'chavmobile' tacky mods. Perhaps Audi should follow Ford as they approve of Mountune performance upgrades thus any ford warranty is still honoured and the upgrades are done themselves by selected Ford dealerships. If it were illegal I'm sure that they would know. Mountune Online


    And to answer the question about selling a car with a remap, I always go for the method where I can remove a remap just as easily as applying one. Of course the Audi has 'anti-tamper', but the so did my present car until a tuner found a way of cracking it. I think with the Audi it is possible with a 'piggy back' device...
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2013
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  13. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Dec 24, 2013]
    I think you will find that Audi do approve some 'tuners' but they are German based. MTM are one and the other one I know of is ABT. Both of these are I sure must have agents in the UK but their remaps etc are generally quite expensive, partly because their have to get TuV approval before they are allowed to sell them in German.

    With the current EDC16C64 engine management units used in the latest Audi diesel engines the only way these can be remapped is for the complete unit to be removed from the car and the changes made by direct connection to the chip that holds the information. I have emailed one of the companies that I understand can do this and I am waiting for a reply.

    I have already added to link to an article which explains the problems with remapping the EDC17C64 in an earlier post (no40) on this thread.
    #53
  14. cuke2u
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    cuke2u Well-Known Member

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    [Dec 24, 2013]
    For the 2011 onwards 2.0l 170ps diesel superchips charge £60 to open up the ecu. From their site:
    "The vehicle's ECU will need to be removed, opened, reprogrammed and refitted, which will then allow us to communicate with the vehicle through its onboard diagnostic port. This process is done with specialist equipment at one of the Superchips dealers listed, from whom you buy the bluefin at the same time.
    The process is not detectable diagnostically by the servicing dealer.
    The RRP of this procedure is £60 inc. VAT, although regional variations may apply."

    Of course this might not be for the same ECU
    #54
  15. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Dec 24, 2013]
    It's not. The latest EDC17C64 that is used on the 1.6 and 2.0 diesel engines has even more anti-taper system built-in. If you look at Superchips and others list of the cars they car remap none of the latest A3s or Golf 7s appear in the list. It may be that it's just that the list on their website is out-of-date or it may mean they have not yet worked out how to bypass the anti-tamper system.

    I had a 2009 A3 2.0TDI-140 remapped to around 170 by a company called Performance Torque in Wolverhampton. In the News section on their website there is an item dated November 2012 that reads "Performance Torque are now offering tuning on the latest VAG EDC17C64 equipped vehicles (VW Golf MK7 etc etc) please contact us for more info! I have emailed them to see what is the current situation with regard to the latest 1.6 and 2.0 engines. I will post their reply as soon as I hear from them.
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  16. cuke2u
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    cuke2u Well-Known Member

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    [Dec 24, 2013]
    That's what I though, looking forward to hearing the response you get. It took over a year before any maps became available for the 1.6 ecoboost engine as fitted to the focus and they started out in Germany before filtering through to British companies.
    #56
  17. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Dec 24, 2013]
    Looking again at the MTM and ABT websites it seems that both of them take the same approach to remapping. In both cases they replace the EDC with one of their own rather than remap the one that is there in the first place. This probably explains the cost of around €1200. The EDC supplied as a part by Audi costs £1098.
    #57
  18. cuke2u
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    cuke2u Well-Known Member

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    [Dec 25, 2013]
    I would have thought that was quite detectable. There own would have to include elements from an original one as a basis because the ecu does more than just control the engine, injectors and turbo...
    #58
  19. StefRobinson
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    StefRobinson Active Member

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    [Dec 26, 2013]
    My 1.6TDI has only done 1200 miles so far. My route to work is around 17 miles, between Matlock and Chesterfield and Sheffield in Derbyshire. Going to work I've got to go up a number of hills. There are less hills coming home, but still some smaller ones to negotiate.

    I've found the 1.6TDI is very economical on the flat or downhill, although it does struggle with hills to keep up the economy. I'm getting around 54MPG going to work and high 50's or low 60's coming home. This is all rural or sub-urban driving. No motorways etc.

    I would have thought I'd get more given that I'm driving it ultra carefully using as little of the accelerator as possible. My old 2.0 TDI 8P would get similar figures.

    What's the most economical way to take hills. Use as little acceleration as possible and cruise up them slowly, or use a bit more power, blast up and get them over with and lift off again?
    #59

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