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Golf GTI or A3 Equivalent

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by Boydie, Nov 11, 2008.

  1. Vtec Abuser
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    Vtec Abuser Member

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    [Nov 12, 2008]
    You're right, it's not the best example... :no::laugh: About as usefull as this one.. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-ljDKj9xLZw&feature=related
    It's plain physics really.. Two cars with the same engine, chassis etc but different weights, the lighter one is generally going to be quicker on the whole (unless the other has a short ratio box, which it doesn't).
    There won't be a lot in them either way. But I very much doubt the A3 will be quicker mate..
    I'll race you down the 1/4 mile if ya want.. ;) :laugh:
    #41
  2. NHN
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    [Nov 12, 2008]
    I do like the look of the scirocco its stance on the road & I'm guessing with wide stance does it have good handling or not?

    Only thing I dont like about it is the interior, its a golf simple as that & I buy for the whole picture not 1 thing.

    & no dont need your coat mate, we'll chuck you out without it, lol, lol
    #42
  3. PaulAr
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    PaulAr S3 (8P)

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    [Nov 12, 2008]
    Good choice IMO, I like the look of the new Scirocco, not driven one yet but the motoring press seem to like it.
    Nice car.

    Sincerely hope they do a bonkers 4wd version in the future, it might even tempt me away from another S3.
    Enjoy

    Paul
    #43
  4. A3JB
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    A3JB New Member

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    [Nov 12, 2008]
    Not given it the full beans yet.. only done 500 miles.It does feel well planted on the road though especially when in sport mode.. Only time will tell on this though.
    The dashboard is from an Eos. Not a Golf.. there is a subtle difference. Honest.. Agreed the A3 interior quality is without compare but i am genuinely happy with it and the Dynaudio and new RCD510 touchscreen head unit is the dogs :rockwoot:
    #44
  5. PaulAr
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    PaulAr S3 (8P)

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    [Nov 12, 2008]
    The MK5GTi is great, but if you want seat of the pants hot hatch fun where back road blasts are the most important part of ownership, then dont bother.
    Save yourself some money and buy the old model Civic Type R.

    The Civic was a much more `hardcore`and focused hot hatch than the Golf, however that was was the problem and very thing that made it a bit tiresome for me after 18month. The Golf was an excellent comprimise.
    The ideal allrounder.
    Im guessing the A3 is a better finished, slightly tamer version of the Gti, not for those wanting to drive everywhere like their arse is on fire.

    Paul
    #45
  6. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Nov 12, 2008]
    I'm not so sure Paul...
    The old CTR was a tame old Hector next to the old EK9 import CTR - the last proper CTR in my book. The last gen CTR was a decent hot hatch, but I believe the GTI has the same pace but just does it less frantically.

    The CTR you had to drive flat out everywhere...whereas in the Golf you have enough torque low down not to have to.
    #46
  7. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Nov 12, 2008]
    You found a GTI boring (I agree about the Mk5 R32 as it happens) and you bought an A3 TDI?
    The A3 TDI is a fine car...but it's hardly one of the greats, now, is it?


    Feel? Of what?
    The interior plastics?
    Certainly not of the road as Audis are some of the numbest cars available...either that or you have never driven a car with genuine 'feel'.



    Yes, it's generalising...based on my observations of the pathetic 'keeping up with the Jones' attitude of deepest Suburbia nowadays...where 6 years ago there were a brace of BMWs on the driveway, there are now a brace of Audis, via a brace of SUVs of 3 years ago...
    It's the fashion concious car to have for the Suburban fool-done-good round my way.

    Sadly, that's enough to put me off the generic models
    Shame really...

    I do still aspire to a few S and RS models...but whilst they appear at a glance to be a cooking model in S-Line spec, I shan't be bothering. Horses for courses again....and my personal view.
    #47
  8. biggiep
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    biggiep Member

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    [Nov 12, 2008]
    Just to add my two cents about the styling, I bought an A3 because its good looking but understated and I dont think the same can be said for the ED30. I'm not sure on the ED30 rediduals but Aui seem to be the only brand not really affected in these times.

    You pays ya money ya takes ya choices but at the end of the day I dont think you'll be unhappy with either.

    If your not a racer and dont need the focused side of things then the A3 is a nicer place to be and i dont know if its just me but both my A3 8P's have had comfier seats than the MK5 golf i had? Mind you they might just be wider hahaha!
    #48
  9. rollon
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    rollon Member

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    [Nov 13, 2008]
    Quattro weights more than the fwd vw in that video, on top of that gear changes play an important factor.

    There may or may not be a lot in it, either way the manufacturer quoted figures are there for a reason and it shows the A3 has the edge (even if it is ever so slightly). If they were completly identical in performance the edition 30/pirelli would just be cosmetic changes, but it is not; you get that extra 30bhp giving the same performance as an A3 2.0T.

    Oi I have a tdi ...remapped though, so I beat you...on fuel economy and road tax :asskicking: :eyebrows:
    #49
  10. dc240969
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    dc240969 Member

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    [Nov 13, 2008]
    Golf simple. Yup thats what made up my mind between the Mk5 R32 and S3. Having had a MK4 R32 and loved it l was taken to buy the MK5 but didnt like the new shape, under played unlike the bold stance the MK4 has. At the time, still have, a MK5 1.6 and when l sat in the MK5 R32 l thought this is just the same. After doing figure work l opted for the S3. Best choice ever.:salute:
    #50
  11. Vtec Abuser
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    Vtec Abuser Member

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    [Nov 13, 2008]
    So you need a Ed30 to keep up with a A3 2.0T now...? :wtf: :lmfao:

    I think you are paying a little to much attention to 0-60 figures mate. IMO 0-60 means next to fook all nowadays (just flatters 4wd cars). 0-100 and 30-70 is a lot better for comparison sake.
    Just remember, a lot of manufacturers can be quite conservative with there figures and some aren't..;)
    #51
  12. PaulAr
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    PaulAr S3 (8P)

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    [Nov 13, 2008]
    Comparing apples with apples so to speak, the JDM EK9 isnt really a GTI peer IMO, and was long gone when the MK5 was released. The later CTR was/is HONDAS equivalent and was on sale at the same tme as the MK5 hence the comparison.

    Anyway, I owned the MK5 and CTR back to back and genuinely thought the CTR was more `fun` and more focused than the Golf. It felt much lighter on its toes, quicker steering etc.., but as you say, a bit`frantic` which was great for the first 12months and after that it became all a bit too much.
    Thats why I only missed it 5% of the time when I was having a particularly`spirited` driving episide, but it was much better to `chuck around` than the Golf I thought.

    That said, I would have the Golf over the CTR any day of the week.

    I think Ive gone off topic a bit now, cant remeber CTRs being in the thread title! :blush:

    Back on topic, cant really compare the Golf with the A3 20T as I havnt driven one, BUT I would urge the doubters not to write the Golf off as an alternative to an AUDI, its really is a fine car. Especially an ED30 in Candy white, lovely, the only other car I considered before an S3.
    Similarly its inaccurate to say ALL AUDIS are dull, the S3 is FAR from it.

    Cheers
    Paul
    #52
  13. dc240969
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    dc240969 Member

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    [Nov 13, 2008]
    At the end of the day its what you really want from a motor and what you feel comfortable with. My wife loved the MK4 R32 and its 4wd. l liked the look of the ed30 but wasnt confident my wife could handle fwd and the power that was going through it in standard or modifed state, hence my choice of S3.

    In the end, everyone makes thier choices through thier own reasoning.
    #53
  14. rollon
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    rollon Member

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    [Nov 13, 2008]
    0-60 is definatly far from everything, however it is an indication of what the car is capable of. Manufacturer figures are not always 100% correct for all vehicles it could always be in or out by a few milliseconds however VAG would not make the mistake of saying a GTI is slower than a A3 T without reason.

    I still believe the A3 2.0T has the slight edge over the Golf with performance, which is how it should be.
    #54
  15. Spin140
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    Spin140 Active Member

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    [Nov 13, 2008]
    I was in exactly the same boat just a few weeks ago, I decided to PX the wifes car, hand her the keys to the 335D coupe and buy another car sub £20k that could be used for some track events and provide fun transport for my short commute.

    The ED30, GTi, Scirrocco and used 8P S3's were all in the running, I test drove all the cars with the exception of the S3 as ownership of that was fairly recent, the ED30 was an attractive prospect due to the S3 running gear.

    The GTi does have a certain image that makes it very desireable IMO, it is the sort of car you could own for a few years and it will continue to look cool but having owned a Jetta made the interior too familiar, ditto the S3 plus all were on the higher siide of my budget.

    The Scirrocco was ruled out due to its high price once leather is factored into the equation.

    I don't know wether I dare on here but what the hell - another marmite car, have you considered a ...

    3 door BMW 130i,
    260+ bhp
    3.0 litre petrol 6 cyl
    197g co2
    30+ mpg
    0-60 = 5.9secs
    Max - 155mph.

    Most importantly great bargains are out there.

    I have just bought a Jun 07 8,600 mile car with every concievable extra from lthr to sat nav for £16,000, this car would have cost £32,000 new.

    It sounds excellent, goes like stink and in its high spec is relatively exclusive, interior quality lies somewhere between VW and Audi.

    The handling imo is far superior to the Gti and ED30's I tried and provides fantastic entertainment in the wet, just a thought ?!?
    #55
  16. NHN
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    NHN Retrofitter - Audi - VW - Skoda - Seat Site Sponsor VCDS Map User

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    [Nov 13, 2008]
    about as far as I'd go, BMW (sorry for swear word)
    #56
  17. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Nov 13, 2008]
    I don't agree, I think 0-60 can be very misleading.
    My A3 2.0tdi DSG was deliberately geared for a semi-impressive 0-60 time (it was claimed to be around 8.6 seconds, at the time).

    So a prospective buyer could have been forgiven for thinking it was a sprightly enough performer.

    However, it died an absolute death after that!
    0-60 under 9 seconds, but 0-100 a whopping 26 seconds.
    So it took a mind-numbing 18 seconds to drag its sorry ass from 60-100.

    I try and find 0-100 times now, I think they're a far better indication.

    With regard to the Scirocco, I read a report saying the handling was infuriating for a sporty driver.
    The report said that chucking it into a corner off the throttle (which I would think 99% of us do) had the stability control thinking you were trying to avoid an accident and taking over.
    I suppose you could switch it off though, assuming you can switch it off completely.

    With specific regard to the Gti/A3 debate.
    Whenever I see a nice standard Gti, I get an urge to drive/own one.
    I've had several, I still have a secret hankering to own/drive one again.
    I don't get that urge with any A3.
    #57
  18. NHN
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    [Nov 13, 2008]
    Problem isnt the exterior as it does look good, its the interior that for me lets it down, also the drive wasnt that good either, better than r32 but still preferred the a3, but thats only my personal choice not neccessarily anyone else's
    #58
  19. Spin140
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    Spin140 Active Member

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    [Nov 13, 2008]
    Got to agree with this, the GTi has a certain attraction, to me it just looks like fun and thats before you drive it, the new one promises to be brilliant.

    I still really love the Audi brand but folk on here can become blinkered but it is an Audi forum afterall :)

    The S3 in particular is subject to an awful lot of praise and remember I am qualified to comment having owned one, it is good but certainly doesn't set any new standards especially when it comes to driver entertainment, I found the FWD TT and Golf GTI more exciting if not quicker behind the wheel, the S3 is an awesome car for covering long distances at very high speed, is built to perfection and exudes quality but Fun, Hmmmm still undecided on that one, the answer is Yes if fun can only be had at high speeds IMO.

    Anyway the thread is A3 2.0T v GTi - I vote whatever floats your boat, but everyone should be able to look back and say they have owned a Hot hatch, try the GTi and come back to Audi when your budget increases.

    Good luck wahtever you decide.

    Spin
    #59
  20. L60N
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    L60N Guest

    [Nov 13, 2008]
    I simply cant believe that. :wacko:
    #60
  21. NHN
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    [Nov 13, 2008]
    he didnt have your big engine on top leon, lol
    #61
  22. NHN
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    [Nov 13, 2008]
    Some are but not me, I like to drive a car before I quote about it so then I am not just purely speculating
    #62
  23. Lukeyb
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    Lukeyb Active Member

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    [Nov 13, 2008]
    And if i hadnt just changed cars 3 weeks before i finally decided to take a closer look at the 1 series, only because i was suffering from BHP withdrawal, the 170 audi feeling slow after selling my 300BHP car before it (i havent ever really liked BMWs simply for their "owner image" so was blinkered to them) i would have prob had one of these, just like yours fully loaded excpet sat nav 6 months old pre reg for 21k, at first i just thought 3 litre ive just swapped cars cos of mental tax brackets but it must be the most powerful fastest biggest engined car you can buy in the sub 200 bracket.

    The 200BHP 123D MSport is cack though, my 170 is much more spritley, have to say in the 123 i was severley disappointed
    #63
  24. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Nov 13, 2008]
    Valid point...I suppose what I was trying to say was that the EK9 was frantic and edgy...a wild thing. The EP3 (is that the right type number?) feels frantic, but without the edgyness. to me anyway.
    It was a lot of fuss over little, to me...does that make sense?
    Almost engineered to feel wild...whilst not being wild.

    Anyway...

    So would I.


    Again, I disagree...I think the S3 IS dull.
    It's a lovely car, superbly built, well appointed, good looking, quick, stable...but dull as dishwater.
    Almost too well sorted.
    It's safe...to the point of frustration. It is still numb of steering, and will tend to understeer out of trouble. So, although it's a lovely car...it's dull.
    Completely in line with other quick Audis...

    I've had the privelege of driving ChriS3s RS4 and it's a brilliant car...great engine note, a car that betrays it's size and weight...but it's dull to drive.
    It goes and grips with no fuss...you go faster than you ever thought...it brakes well with little fus other than wagging it's tail...but you get out without breaking a sweat, having not had to try, and feeling cheated.

    Same with the S3.
    Good...just not involving.
    My old modified 8L was the same...despite 3 years of trying to waken the damn thing up.

    To some, that's a good thing - and fair play to them.
    To me, that's dull.


    The GTI felt more alive out if the box...which bodes well.
    #64
  25. Lukeyb
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    Lukeyb Active Member

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    [Nov 13, 2008]
    The EP3 was still edgy, treat is dirty and it would love to catch you out. The FN2 is totally numbed down with a "safer" trailing back end
    #65
  26. Boydie
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    Boydie Guest

    [Nov 13, 2008]
    #66
  27. TDI-line
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    TDI-line Uber Post Whore

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    [Nov 13, 2008]
    I think you've made the right decision. ;)
    #67
  28. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Nov 13, 2008]
    Ooh...that's nice!
    #68
  29. Matt
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    Matt Active Member

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    [Nov 13, 2008]
    Like the Coupe but minus that bodykit and wheels
    #69
  30. NHN
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    [Nov 13, 2008]
    I like the lines but wonder how that drives, who was it who got one of these recently, was it Bowfer??
    #70
  31. Boydie
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    Boydie Guest

    [Nov 13, 2008]
    the bodykit and wheels make the car - how cant you like it!
    #71
  32. N8
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    N8 Kowalski Details VCDS Map User

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    [Nov 13, 2008]
    Those tartan seats are terrible
    #72
  33. PaulAr
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    PaulAr S3 (8P)

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    [Nov 13, 2008]
    I guess its what pushes your buttons.

    Having a quick car car that lets you exploit the power in pretty much all conditions and flatters the driving skills of `Joe average` (Me) is what I want, like and now have in an S3.
    Buttons pressed, job done.

    The 2 Mk5s I owned were both too slow out of the box in modern terms. Fun, but too slow IMO.
    The second one was transformed with a 250bhp remap but you could only exploit the power in a straight line on a dry day.
    Meaning torque steer was the order of the day from Sept to April.

    Exciting? probably, in the same way as pressing the gas pedal to the floor and letting go of the steering wheel is.

    Not having owned, but driven a fast rwd car (E46 M3) I was very impressed however everytime time you give it the beans I felt like it was going to kill me. A real weapon in the right hands.

    Did I find find it exciting? yes, in the same way as getting chased home from the school bully who was ready to bash you and pinch your sweets.

    That said, I wouldnt say no to any of them. All fine cars in different ways for different reasons.

    Interesting suggestion regarding the 130i (Spin140), something I would have looked at in the past if it wasnt for the looks.
    On paper its sounds great.

    I find the whole `AUDI is dull dabate, fascinating.
    (I have no history of AUDI ownersip and/or deep rooted brand loyalty btw. )
    I always liked the look of the S3 (8L too) , like the headline figures, liked the idea of quattro.
    Drove one, loved it, bought one.
    Ive owned a few comact performance cars which are widely considered as `fun` and well sorted, from old school hot hatches, corrados, CTR, Mk5Gti as mentioned and find the S3 as good if not better than any of them.

    There just doesnt seem to be any consistency in opinions between owners/ex owners and the motoring press as to whether AUDIs are in fact dull.
    I cant speak for the rest of the range but I would LOVE to bore myself in an RS4 for a few hours.

    Cheers
    Paul
    #73
  34. NHN
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    [Nov 13, 2008]
    I cant see how they would be considered dull at all TBH, I dont consider my audi dull in any shape or form or the other 2 before, ok I was admittedly let down with the power of the S4 B6 Avant in a big way, but it was a lovely car to drive if you didnt want the fun of the turbo charging engine, the golf's I had before that wernt dull either but stepping into the S3 from the golf's were a different story, made the golf look very boring & tbh still does, lol.
    #74
  35. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Nov 13, 2008]
    I guess so...the trouble with all discussioins is that people approach it with their own set levels of what's good and what's not.

    At the end of the day...I can't see anybody being completely let down by any of the cars mentioned...but if people are brutally honest (not easy for some it seems) the car they own is NOT perfect. No car is. They are all weak in some areas...you just have to prioritise which areas are more important and buy based on what YOU want.

    Personally, I get bored of dull cars...so I change bits (modify/tune) to try and get what I want from it...which in itself adds more compromises.

    What I like / live with would appall others...
    But unlike some, I can acknowledge faults in every car I've ever owned...doesn't stop me buying cars. But the faults are there...i've never owned the best car in the word. How I'd love to find it.



    I find that difficult to understand. I'm not having a go either, by that comment...but I found the E46 to be utterly planted and unless driven like a complete prat and booted right on the apex, it was unflappable. Not as easy to drive as an S3 for example...but certainly not some uber death machine.

    But as you say...a real weapon in the right hands (not mine either, by the way!)


    I guess that's the individuality again...
    I like being frightened. I like the feeling that I only know 70% of what the car is capable of after 4 years - whereas it was 100% in a month or so with the S3 - so it's all down to what floats your boat.
    A healthy element of fear and respect is always a sure fire way of avoiding the ditch, in my book.


    Don't get me wrong...ChriS3s RS4 is quicker up the 1/4 mile than my C4s (as proven at GTI Int'l this year), as quick on the road most places (not as good under braking), has so much grip it's beggars belief, has an amazingly torquey engine that makes a great noise and the ability to move 5 adults, watching TV, whilst moving a wardrobe about...it's an astonishing car. But it doesn't thrill like some cars do.
    As a fast everyday car it would take some beating.
    But as a weekend drivers car...snooze....

    Anyway...way off topic now. Sorry.
    #75
  36. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Nov 13, 2008]
    But do you see how others might?

    It doesn't mean they are bad cars...just dull to drive, to some people.
    #76
  37. julians
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    [Nov 13, 2008]
    Got to agree with Ess Three here, I find the S3 amazingly competent as a car, very fast in all conditions,practical etc but really dull.

    I took it on a trackday a few weekends ago, just to see if I could get it to be exciting, but I failed. I reckon there must be an exciting car in there, maybe some changes to the geometry/tyre pressure might wake it up, I'll keep at it.

    I think whether you find it dull or not depends on what other cars you have experienced, if all you've had is front wheel drive cars then I reckon you'd find it pretty exciting, but if you ever driven a good rwd car for a decent length of time then I reckon you'd find it dull.
    #77
  38. robintegra1
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    [Nov 13, 2008]
    I Sell these if your interested ^ the mapped 335ds go very well.

    Looking for an A3 2.0 TDI at the moment as this seems a nice everyday car, nice styling and interior. Thats for the OH,

    I drive this ............ :p

    [​IMG]
    #78
  39. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Nov 13, 2008]
    That is rather nice!
    #79
  40. PaulAr
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    PaulAr S3 (8P)

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    [Nov 13, 2008]
    Maybe, Ive always stuck with smaller cars which rarely have a 4wd variant so by default have generally ended up with a fwd car.

    Tempted by M3s in the past but was always deterred by the running costs.
    Like I said, I driven (not owned) an E46 a couple of times and loved it, but didnt feel underwhelmed in any way when I got back into mine.
    In fact my mate who owns the M3 drove mine and loved the traction (it was p!ssing down btw) and in his words wished he didnt have to tiptoe around in the wet not being able to open the taps.

    Did you try the S3 out before you bought it?
    Surely if its dull now, it was dull when you test drove it?

    Its a lot of money to have tied up in a car that you see as `dull`.

    I agree the S3 wouldnt give the most track thrills but mine will never see a track so its not a factor.

    Sorry guys, off topic further, been a good thread though.....

    Cheers
    Paul
    #80

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