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God damn speeding ticket

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Rick106, Oct 3, 2007.

  1. Rick106
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    Rick106 New Member

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    [Oct 3, 2007]
    On my way back from a work training day I got caught doing 45mph in a 30 zone. I was in a rush, but wasn't aware that it was 30mph, however I'm sure there are signs. It was a single carriageway with out any houses near by. I came round a corner and wasn't concentrating as I was tired and didn't spot the policeman with the radar gun. Only spotted him as he looked down to check the speed I was doing.

    Anyway just got the letter through today, and I'm not happy!! There's nothing worse than getting caught speeding. Its really annoying as I usually never speed in 30 zones and it was a mistake.

    Anyway, there are certain theories around about how to avoid getting the points, do any of you guys have any ideas?

    I've currently got 3 points which expire this month!!

    Any ideas of avoidance?

    Rich
    #1
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  3. sjahS3
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    sjahS3 Member

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    [Oct 3, 2007]
    #2
  4. alanjonesbath
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    alanjonesbath VAGOwners.co.uk

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    [Oct 3, 2007]
    Why are you trying to avoid the points, when you've just admitted on a public forum that you broke the speed limit by 50%? Sorry, but it really annoys me when people come on forums openly saying they broke the speed limit and want to try and wriggle out of it. Be a man, admit to it and hold you hands up. If you wanted to avoid it, step number one is don't admit to it!
    #3
  5. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Oct 3, 2007]
    I don't mean to preach,but 45mph in a 30mph zone in pretty inexcusable.
    As pointed out,it's 50% over the limit.
    That's the equivalent of 105mph in a 70mph zone.
    To be honest,I'd have more sympathy for someone doing 105mph in a 70mph zone....
    It's far less risky than 45mph in a 30mph zone.
    BTW,I don't think you can use the 'no signs' argument,because I don't think 30mph zones have to be displayed.
    AFAIK,if there are street lights and no signs saying otherwise,it's a 30mph zone.
    So you should treat them as 30mph zones unless otherwise specified.
    Sorry for the rant,but I watch/hear people speeding past my house every day,and it does my head in.
    No signs saying it's a 30mph zone,but it is automatically one unless displayed otherwise.
    #4
  6. rxt80
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    rxt80 top gear

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    [Oct 3, 2007]
    Nah - you can't claim "lack of signs". Unless there are repeater signs (i.e. the small ones every few hundred yards), the speed limit is either 30, 60 or 70mph.

    If you want to reduce the insurance premium of having 3 points on your licence then I can recommend the Advanced driving test......me and the other half have both taken it (and we now teach it) and our insurance has dropped by over £300! Plus it would mean you wouldn't miss these things in the future ;)
    #5
  7. Rick106
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    Rick106 New Member

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    [Oct 3, 2007]
    Alanjonesbath if that's all you've got to say, i'm not interested. I do hold my hands up, it was a mistake and I never usually speed in a 30.
    And Bowfer yes I realise it was 50% over the speeding limit, but then again it was only 15mph over.

    If I put a post u asking help, I don't want these kind of replies from morons who apparently "never speed". You're telling me you guys have never accidentally touched onto 40-45 in a 30. It was a mistake and I only touched that speed for 2 secs.

    Alanjonesbath you annoy me. From now on if you have an opinion that doesn't help the thread then don't post it!

    :shutup2:
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  8. siu00adg
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    siu00adg Member

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    [Oct 3, 2007]
    I'm with you on that.

    Speed cameras are such a ridiculous way of policing our roads anyway. Rather than spending money on traffic cops, money is made by measuring peoples speed (ignoring everything else).

    Speed cameras exist for two reasons, and two reasons alone.

    1. Speed is a very easy thing to measure
    2. Speed cameras make money

    Nothing to do with safety.

    I accept that we need speed limits, but zero tolerance enforcement of them is ridiculous especially as the limits are usually way off what they should be, some limits are set far to high and some far too low. For example there is a 60mph road near my parents house that I would not feel safe doing more than 40 on in the dry, let alone in failing light and in the wet, where as on a dry motorway in the middle of the day I honesty believe 100+mph is perfectly safe (so long as you're no where near other vehicles of course).

    I honestly don't know how exactly I would go about policing people's driving but if I was in charge there would be no speed cameras.
    #7
  9. HeliChris
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    HeliChris Learning to fly 3D

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    [Oct 3, 2007]
    Like ex smokers, ex speeders like to preach

    I am an ex speeder, maybe it's because I am older, or maybe its because I have spent time on the track, but I realised speeding on public roads is just a big no no for me. I have to work hard to keep my car at 30, and often creep over a bit, but never 40, let alone 45.

    The ruling on 30 mph zones states that all unmarked roads with street lamps are 30, so I expect this is the reason the road is a 30 zone.

    BUT

    I sympathise with your situation, I think a ticket in the post is no way to get a message across, and hence, has done nothing to change your views on speeding, so it's completely pointless, apart from generating revenue. I think you are going to have to take this one on the chin or you are going to dig an even deeper hole for yourself.

    I also think your points won't cost to much extra around insurance time, after all there a lot of worse things, so finger crossed, just remember to tell your insurer when you renew.

    Chris.
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  10. Von Maximo
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    Von Maximo The Damned

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    [Oct 3, 2007]
    Because he's asking for advice and the best way of getting this type of advice is on a forum and if you can get away with it then both your lisence and wallet are better off! What a muppet!
    #9
  11. alanjonesbath
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    alanjonesbath VAGOwners.co.uk

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    [Oct 4, 2007]
    ... but the child he hits next time he does it won't be better off, will they. Remember Rick106's first post? "I only spotted him when he looked down at his gun to see my speed" So if that was a child, he wouldn't have seen him until it was too late either.

    I'm sorry if people don't like my opinion, but I have no sympathy whatsoever for people who speed in a 30. 30 limits are there for very good reasons, even if you can't actively 'see' them when you're driving, and if you get caught, then you deserve everything you get.

    Anyway, I think if you read my first post, it gives a very good and worthwhile piece of advice that everyone seems to have missed. IF YOU WANT TO WORM YOUR WAY OUT OF AN OFFENCE, DON'T ADMIT TO IT ON A PUBLIC FORUM! Remember, while you may a member of the general public, it doesn't mean that everyone is ;)
    #10
  12. consilio
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    consilio Up the owls!

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    [Oct 4, 2007]
    "I only spotted him when he looked down at his gun to see my speed" So if that was a child, he wouldn't have seen him until it was too late either."

    Thats a massive assumption, he could still have been a fair distance away, well within stopping distances.

    Speeding in a 30 is unacceptable, BUT it can be easily done, and we all have moments where we dont concentrate as much as we should - we are only human after all.

    What does annoy me is the amount of stealth speed camera's and mobile vans that are about, which actually divert my attention away from watching for other motorists and children. No wonder the number of casualties is actually increasing!

    Also, does anyone remember that advert about the stopping distance at 30, where a car goes SKIDDING down a high street past several shops!! Now i understand why this advert was made, but please dont lie to me. Stopping at 30 is not that difficult
    #11
  13. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Oct 4, 2007]
    The law states speed cameras have to be 'advertised' beforehand.
    So,there would have either been fixed camera warning signs on posts,or a temporary sign placed by the side of the road,a fair distance from the van.
    Yet he STILL went past it at 45mph in a 30mph zone.
    Sorry,but this looks more and more like a complete lack of concentration,rather than a mistake.

    To be honest,these days,I'm amazed when people get done by fixed cameras or mobile ones.
    They have to abide by such visibility laws that you have to be a bit of a numpty.
    Not like the old days,where they would sneak up behind you !

    I don't mean to sound holier-than-thou.I do enjoy putting the foot down on quiet country roads.
    But I never speed in urban areas and have no sympathy for those that do.
    It has to be said,where I live,the worst urban speeders are women...
    Women who would be the first to moan if a child was knocked down by a speeder...
    #12
  14. motorbikez
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    motorbikez Active Member

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    [Oct 4, 2007]
    Since april this year the camera partenerships can site camera vans anywhere they feel like it without warning signs.Although in this area you see very few camera vans now because again since april this year all areas get a grant from the government so they have no incentive to catch more speeders because they carn't keep the money.
    #13
  15. Rick106
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    Rick106 New Member

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    [Oct 4, 2007]
    alanjonesbath your advice was not what I wanted and you know it. As I have said I usually never speed in a 30mph zone for the same reasons as you've said, but telling me to NOT SPEED doesn't help my current situation. So once again, if you have nothing useful to say, then don't say it.

    The annoying thing is I'm a considerate driver. I have been driving a lot over the past 5 years (ie bout 30k per year) and these are my first points in 3 years that I have received.

    Von Maximo cheers for the support.
    #14
  16. rxt80
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    rxt80 top gear

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    [Oct 4, 2007]
    .....I think anyone would moan if a kid was knocked down by a speeder....not just women. Generalising a bit there!
    #15
  17. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Oct 4, 2007]
    My point is that it is women who will stand around the nursery,clucking like hens about a child being knocked down by a speeder,before loading their kids into the Q7/X5/Voyager and driving at 45mph+ on the way home.
    Honestly,I see it every day where I live.
    They are members of the '45 everywhere' brigade.
    45mph through 30 zones,45mph on rural 60 zones.
    They do my head in.
    #16
  18. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    [Oct 4, 2007]
    I'd take it on the chin if I were you and not even try to get out of it. They're getting hotter and hotter on the tactics advocated by sites like pepipoo and you could end up with even more points or a bigger fine for "trying it on".

    Whilst I sympathise with your predicament, the fact remains that you were speeding and there's not much you can do to escape this fact. Whilst I do speed, I also accept that I'm in control of the vehicle and I'm making a conscious decision to do so. If and when I get caught (and I have been on a couple of occasions) I accept it as my fault and move on.

    Whilst I know you're saying this was a momentary lapse of concentration rather than a conscious act, if anything that's rather worse. By your own admission you were tired yet came round a blind corner (must have been blind or you'd have seen the officer) at 50% over the posted limit. What if there had been a stationary or slow moving car in the road? Or a pedestrian?

    Over-dramatic? Perhaps, but these are questions which will be asked if you try to "wriggle" out of it. All they will see is that you came round a blind bend at 50% over the limit.

    Just take the points and move on.
    #17
  19. Von Maximo
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    Von Maximo The Damned

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    [Oct 4, 2007]
    Two things Alan,

    Firstly you are preaching as if you have never broken the speed limit before! Which I would disbelieve you if said you hadn't!

    And secondly how do you expect someone to get advice without stating the facts of the problem!

    What a yogut top!
    #18
  20. Rick106
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    Rick106 New Member

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    [Oct 5, 2007]
    That's pretty much what I've decided to do. I was just annoyed about it is all.

    Well it wasn't quite a blind corner and I was in the middle of nowhere (no houses around) at 7pm at night. It had just gone down from a 50 to a 30, so it wasn't quite like that. But thanks for all your advice anyway guys. Looks like I'm gonna have to get these 3-5 points and live with it.

    Rich
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  21. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Oct 5, 2007]
    Why 3-5 points ?
    Not just 3 ?
    Because of the 50% over thing ?
    Just curious.
    #20
  22. joost
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    joost Active Member

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    [Oct 5, 2007]
    I got caught doing 61 in a 40 a few years back, sneaky bastard was hiding behind a parked car - only got 3 points and the fine.
    #21
  23. CJP80
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    CJP80 987C

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    [Oct 6, 2007]
    Any Lawyers/Solicitors on this forum explain why people get a £60 fine for a speeding offence when the RTOA states:

    53 Amount of fixed penalty

    (1) The fixed penalty for an offence is—
    (a) the amount mentioned in subsection (2) below, or
    (b) one-half of the maximum amount of the fine to which a person committing that offence would be liable on summary conviction,
    whichever is the less.
    (2) The amount referred to in subsection (1)(a) above is—
    (a) £24 in the case of any offence involving obligatory endorsement, and
    (b) £12 in any other case.
    (3) The Secretary of State may by order substitute a different amount or amounts for either or both of the amounts for the time being specified in subsection (2) above.

    Also, if there are any police officers on here, can you clarify where in the law it states that a given speed will attract a fixed amount of points or is it at the discretion of the courts, seems strangely ambiguous given Joost's comments above?

    Thanks
    #22
  24. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Oct 6, 2007]
    There is no definitive threshold, it varies from county to county.
    But typically, in a 30, anything under 50mph will be dealt with by fixed penalty (3 points £60 fine), 50 and over goes to court, 60 & over (i.e. 30mph over limit) and you're looking at a possible ban (same for any speed limit).
    Really stupid that they can generalise about 30mph limits as we all know there are 30 limits and 30 limits. Some where 30 is way too high and some dual carriageways that should be a 40mph.
    There are no ways out of it other than getting someone else to take them for you, (all the loopholes were closed way back). Though with a clean licnce I really don't see what you're complaining about.
    It won't effect your insurance, if it does then move your policy.
    As someone who has had a 12 month ban for totting up, and only recently came off 9 points down to 3, (all motorway speeding), I can't really comment without sounding like a hypocrite, but agree that fixed/mobile camera's are a joke, demoting some fairly serious speeding offences down to nothing more than a parking ticket while continuing to promote the falacy that as long as you stay within the speed limit you're a safe driver. They don't change anyone's behaviour other than maybe getting a laser jammer installed. Being stopped by a real traffic cop is far more effective and also catches the drunk/uninsured/mobile phone user etc. who contribute way beyond the speeders to the death toll on our roads.
    #23
  25. siu00adg
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    siu00adg Member

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    [Oct 7, 2007]
    Totally agree.
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  26. CJP80
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    CJP80 987C

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    [Oct 7, 2007]
    Why is this accepted? To me it's f&*king crazy being penalised further for trying to defend yourself! Surely this contravenes your human rights? If there is even some chance that a laser gun operated by a human is inaccurate then it should cease to be utilised going forward!

    It especially infuriates me when I hear people talk about grumpy magistrates who double the penalty for wasting the courts time! Wasting time? We pay your f&*king wages my lord!

    As far as I'm concerned, if you're caught speeding then the fixed penalty should be pre-defined and not open to adjustment for time of day and road traffic conditions or some other bull and it should definitely not be able to change if you fail in a court to defend yourself.

    :no:
    #25
  27. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Oct 7, 2007]
    The fixed penalty is an offer of a more lenient fine/points to plead guilty by post and not tie up court time & costs in the process. Just like pretty much all other criminal charges, if you plead guilty in light of overwhelming evidence, then you get a lighter sentence, it's as simple as that.
    "As far as I'm concerned, if you're caught speeding then the fixed penalty should be pre-defined and not open to adjustment for time of day and road traffic conditions or some other bull"
    The fixed penalty is fixed, the clue is in the name, if you want to dispute the offence then you have to decline the offer of a fixed penalty and take your chances in court, where all the evidence is then used. But ultimately nothing has changed, except the fine will be more as you now have court costs. The points remain the same as the offence is the same.
    #26
  28. CJP80
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    CJP80 987C

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    [Oct 7, 2007]
    I understand the additional costs involved and don't dispute liability if you are found guilty.

    However, a migistrate can give you more points than the offence would previously have attracted under the fixed penalty notice, especially when he is in a bad mood!
    #27
  29. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Oct 7, 2007]
    Who says? Very unlikely. Even if he does it'll only be 4 or 5 points which are effectively the same as 3 points in terms of totting up, so who cares?
    #28
  30. jdp1962
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    jdp1962 Grumpy Old Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Oct 7, 2007]
    I think your reaction to alanjonesbath's replies is totally wrong. Regardless of the subject or the merits of the argument, if you post on a public forum inviting people's view, you have to accept them all, favourable or otherwise. It's not your place to pick and choose what opinions people can post. You don't have to like or agree with what he has said, but you have no right whatsoever to tell him he shouldn't say it.
    #29
  31. CJP80
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    CJP80 987C

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    [Oct 7, 2007]
    My friend was caught speeding at 61 in a 40 zone, same as Joost above, which had previously been a 60!

    He decided to take it to court and was treated as if he was guilty from the outset. The Sherriff gave him 10 points because, he was "sick of dealing with stupid, irresponsible young men speeding in the area"!

    He had no previous convictions and had been driving for 5 years prior to conviction.

    :wtf:
    #30
  32. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Oct 7, 2007]
    Well if you turn up with an attitude, no suit, no brief and a smug look on your face then they can & will throw the book at you. What element of the "61 in a 40" was he contesting? If they perceive all you are doing is arguing black is white then of course they will come down hard - welcome to the real world.
    If you have actually done your homework & prepared to argue legitmately through a brief then they can be sympathetic.
    I presume you are also talking about Scottish law which can be different.
    #31
  33. JamS3
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    JamS3 Active Member

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    [Oct 7, 2007]
    Its also up to individual police force policy in what they offer endorsable ticket and to which speed attracts a summons to court, a endorsable ticket is only a conditional offer and people who get one may get prosecuted by means of summons etc (not accepting ticket when get home, not surrendering driving licence etc).

    Thats why a NIP (notice of intended prosecution) must be given in every case of sppeding when a ticket or summons is issued on the street EXCEPT when a accident occurs or other traffic matters.
    #32
  34. marriedblonde
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    marriedblonde Moderator

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    [Oct 7, 2007]
    This isn't really an A3 issue so if you want to continue please take it to the general discussions forum.

    Cheers.

    J.
    #33
  35. consilio
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    consilio Up the owls!

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    [Oct 8, 2007]
    So he was walking at the time then?
    #34
  36. s3avo
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    s3avo .

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    [Oct 14, 2007]
    was the officer holding the gun or was it on a tripod???
    #35
  37. s3avo
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    s3avo .

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    [Oct 14, 2007]
    Was the officer holding the gun or was it on a tripod?
    #36

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