sakkie69
2008 Audi S3
According to Haldex the new facelift S3 will have the newest generation Haldex on it (generation 4). Does anyone know what difference this makes, as the current S has gen2 in it? (gen3 was used in I think the VW Tiguan)
If as seems likely it is the Gen 4 system on the S3 now, does that mean the eLSD that is fitted to the Saab XWD and new Insignia can be retro fitted to the S3?
Yeah, in addition to sakkie69 above I sent the following to the Haldex AWDclub folks...
Q: Can you please advise which Haldex system is used on the latest "facelift" Audi S3.
A: Audi S3 has a Haldex Gen IV coupling.
I'm just trying to find some decent documentation that lists the difference between Gen II and Gen IV Haldex.
Timbo and I ran our cars at Wakefield Race Track last week.Both are 2008 S3's,so presumably run Gen 2 Haldex.Yeah, in addition to sakkie69 above I sent the following to the Haldex AWDclub folks...
Q: Can you please advise which Haldex system is used on the latest "facelift" Audi S3.
A: Audi S3 has a Haldex Gen IV coupling.
I'm just trying to find some decent documentation that lists the difference between Gen II and Gen IV Haldex.
MACCAA said:Hi I have a 2008 Audi S3, and was wondering what model Haldex it has?
Also, I have a friend who has ordered a new S3, due next month.
What model Haldex will it have, and, if not the same as mine, what are the differences.
Thanks
MACCAA
Haldex said:Hi MACCAA,
In your 2008 Audi S3 it can be either a Gen II or a Gen IV. You can check this by looking at the part number engraved to the coupling, it can be seen from underneath the car.
If it says OAV 525 554 it is a Gen II, but if it says OBR 525 554 it is a Gen IV.
Your friend will receive an Audi S3 that is equipped with a Gen IV.
There is no big difference between the two, weight is one and the other is that the reaction time for the Gen IV is slightly faster.
HALDEX TRACTION SYSTEMS DIVISION
Marketing Coordinator
A Jönsson
Hello all,
I recently scanned my car with Vag-Com and this is what I came across
Address 22: AWD Labels: None
Part No SW: 0BR 907 554 A HW: 0BR 907 554 A
Component: Haldex 4Motion 3016
Coding: 0000005
Shop #: WSC 00000
No fault code found.
So in other words, it should be equiped with Gen4 haldex ECU. Btw the car is an S3 Sportback late 2008 production. To be honest at first when I pushed in into a few corners it did give me a feeling that the back end was a bit lets say more... "alive and eager to pop out" something that the 07' test drive car did not do for me. Oh well, dunno, i guess the newer the better
cheers!
You would need to go on the HW version to find out if it is gen4. I dont think Haldex 4motion means its gen 4 necessarily(maybe someone else with vagcom can compare a known earlier car). Haldex may well call all the couplings 4 motion after all thats what VW have used to signify awd on cars for years including haldex equiped ones.
Part No SW: 0BR 907 554 A HW: 0BR 907 554 A
What was gen 3 then?
Address 22: AWD Labels: 1K0-907-554.lbl
Part No: 1K0 907 554 L
Component: Haldex 4Motion 0116
Coding: 0000001
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
No fault code found.
Might get one!
You would need to go on the HW version to find out if it is gen4. I dont think Haldex 4motion means its gen 4 necessarily(maybe someone else with vagcom can compare a known earlier car). Haldex may well call all the couplings 4 motion after all thats what VW have used to signify awd on cars for years including haldex equiped ones.
New all-wheel drive on the Golf R
As standard equipment, the Golf R transfers the TSIs power to the road via the latest generation of Volkswagens 4Motion all-wheel drive system. Compared to the version implemented in the Golf R32, the system underwent significant advanced development. Above all, power transmission between the front and rear axles especially the all-wheel differential that operates in an oil bath exhibits clear advances compared to the previous generation. The most important one: Activation of the all-wheel differential no longer requires a difference in speeds between the front and rear axles.
That is because, different than on the previous generation, for the first time an electric pump is used to build pressure. The electric pump supplies oil to a hydraulic reservoir whose working pressure is 30 bar. A control module computes the ideal drive torque for the rear axle and controls, via a valve, how much oil pressure is applied to the working pistons of the multi-plate clutch. The contact pressure at the clutch plates rises in proportion to the desired torque at the rear axle. The amount of torque that is transferred can be varied continuously with the magnitude of the pressure applied to the clutch plates. Compared to the previous 4Motion generation, the system operates independent of slip, since the systems working pressure is always available. When starting up and accelerating, this prevents spinning of the wheels at the front axle more effectively, since the control module regulates the torque distribution based on dynamic axle loads. In extreme cases, nearly 100 percent of the drive torque can be directed to the rear axle. This results in further gains in active safety and dynamic performance.
The VW quote is not accurate, since the Gen II did not require slip in order for it to operate. In most types of driving where the front wheel is not pointing dead straight ahead, there is a difference in wheel rotation between the front and rear wheel, which is enough to operate the differential pump for the clutch pack. It is the Gen II standard module that does not have a sport mode, thereby, keeping the clutchpack disengaged until slip occurs. With the Gen II performance module, if the throttle is utilized aggressively, the pump will in fact be ready and clutch engagement would occur even before any notice of slippage.The press blurb from the Golf R has a bit more of an explanation about Gen IV (rememering the R32 they refer to ran Gen II and the new Golf R runs Gen IV Haldex, same as facelifted S3s).Compared to the previous 4Motion generation, the system operates independent of slip,
The VW quote is not accurate, since the Gen II did not require slip in order for it to operate. In most types of driving where the front wheel is not pointing dead straight ahead, there is a difference in wheel rotation between the front and rear wheel, which is enough to operate the differential pump for the clutch pack. It is the Gen II standard module that does not have a sport mode, thereby, keeping the clutchpack disengaged until slip occurs. With the Gen II performance module, if the throttle is utilized aggressively, the pump will in fact be ready and clutch engagement would occur even before any notice of slippage.
BTW, It was Land Rover's LR2 that had the Haldex Gen III, not Saab, which has the Gen IV.
That's not right. "In most types of driving where the front wheel is not pointing dead straight ahead, there is a difference in wheel rotation between the front and rear wheel, which is enough to operate the differential pump for the clutch pack." This is what the mean by slip not wheel spin as some people believe and the difference is there the whole time the car is being powered fwd not just on corners. The Gen II does require an amount of slip(don't forget its not wheel spin but a slight difference in axle speeds) to control the clutch pack otherwise the mechanical pump wouldn't supply any pressure to the clutch pack. Gen II pre-x(only used by Volvo) used an electric motor to supply power to the clutch pack when the car was stationary so it could close the clutch and engage all four wheels with no movement , once moving the mechanical pump took over.
The Gen 2 HPP upgrade works exactly the same as the original module but it acts faster and more aggesively to transfer more power faster.
You are saying what I am saying, which is the rotational difference btw the front and rear wheel, when driving into a turn, etc, is enough to operate the pump. But the stock Gen II controller does not take advantage of that pressure and only engages when there is actual wheelslip (you almost don't feel it unless you have no pressure in the pump, as when starting from a dead stop).
The Gen 2 HPP module, doesn't just transfer power faster (with a different valve unit, I presume), also reads the accelerator pedal movement via the CAN bus and could estimate how aggressive you are driving and engage the clutch pack if possible.
You are saying what I am saying, which is the rotational difference btw the front and rear wheel, when driving into a turn, etc, is enough to operate the pump. But the stock Gen II controller does not take advantage of that pressure and only engages when there is actual wheelslip (you almost don't feel it unless you have no pressure in the pump, as when starting from a dead stop).
The Gen 2 HPP module, doesn't just transfer power faster (with a different valve unit, I presume), also reads the accelerator pedal movement via the CAN bus and could estimate how aggressive you are driving and engage the clutch pack if possible.
Just may well be but doesn't TVD also adjust brake input?
If as seems likely it is the Gen 4 system on the S3 now, does that mean the eLSD that is fitted to the Saab XWD and new Insignia can be retro fitted to the S3?