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fuel pump fuse keeps blowing?

Discussion in 'A4/S4 forum(B5 Chassis)' started by Karlos the Avant, Oct 8, 2009.

  1. Karlos the Avant
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    Karlos the Avant A4 1997 18t Avant,17" Chromes

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    [Oct 8, 2009]
    hi guys,

    I have broken down twice now at the side of the motorway{one time last night}.

    Both times it has been the fuse blown for the fuel pump, I change the fuse and it starts and runs with no issues at all.

    Could anyone suggest what may be doing this and has anyone had the same issue to help me out abit with this one.

    I have noticed that the car has lost power when driving along exactly the same as it does when the fuse blows but it has only done the fuse twice but has suffered the same symptoms a few times now.

    any help or suggestions would be greatful

    Kindest regards
    Karl
    #1
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  3. Siena
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    Siena Active Member

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    [Oct 8, 2009]
    Your fuel pump's on its last legs, and is drawing more current than it should.

    Replace, and all will be well.
    #2
  4. rasA4
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    rasA4 Four Rings Mafia Specialist

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    [Oct 8, 2009]
    #3
  5. Karlos the Avant
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    Karlos the Avant A4 1997 18t Avant,17" Chromes

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    [Oct 8, 2009]
    Thanks mate,

    Are they expensive and are they fitted in the tanks on the 1997 avant 18t or is it a bolt on job under the car?

    Another problem to tackle then and are we sure that would be the fault before i buy anything Siena{not that i doubt your oppinion at all, ive seen the work you do on here manytimes, just checking mate thats all}

    regards
    Karl
    #4
  6. Karlos the Avant
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    Karlos the Avant A4 1997 18t Avant,17" Chromes

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    [Oct 8, 2009]
    #5
  7. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Oct 8, 2009]
    It cant really be anything else. A fuse will only blow if yyou draw too much current, either meaning something has shorted out in the wiring harness, or the component is faulty.

    If it was a short, it would be unlikely to unshort again hence i would look at the pump first.

    You should be able to pick one up from a breakers yard for not much cash. We changed the pump in my brothers E30 recently, cost us £25 for a pump from an E46 M3 which we then made fit in the original cradle. Most pumps are pretty standard shape/size, they just get fitted into various shaped cradles by the manufacturer.
    #6
  8. Karlos the Avant
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    Karlos the Avant A4 1997 18t Avant,17" Chromes

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    [Oct 8, 2009]
    I thought Siena was prob spot on and that has just has just assued me that he was and yet again you guys have impressed me big time.

    i will have to sort one asap ive just been on hardshoulder again on way home and after a 10hr night shift its not the best place I like to be lol

    put fuse in again and off i flew like mad man trying to get it off the motorway but managed to get it home with no more issues.
    #7
  9. Karlos the Avant
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    Karlos the Avant A4 1997 18t Avant,17" Chromes

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    [Oct 11, 2009]
    #8
  10. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Oct 11, 2009]
    The part number suggests its from a B6 fwd.

    You might still be able to make use of the pump itself though. Usually most cars use a similar size/shape pump, then its fitted into various plastic housings etc to fit a particular model.

    If you remove the actual pump from that housing, then hopefully you can swap it out for yours. You may need to solder the wiring connections on though.
    #9
  11. Karlos the Avant
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    Karlos the Avant A4 1997 18t Avant,17" Chromes

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    [Oct 12, 2009]
    thanks Kev

    Did they change the set up on the B6 fwd and is there a big differance from the B5 fwd?

    i will give it a go when it gets here and for £36 brand new im sure i will make it fit some how.

    I just thought they would all be the same to be honest, didnt think they would have changed the tank pump unit from model to model.

    regards
    Karl
    #10
  12. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Oct 12, 2009]
    Ye i'd imagine they will be different housings, B6 has a rear subframe and independent rear arms, B5 has a torsion beam, so the tank will likely be laid out differently.

    You should be able to swap the pumps over if your careful.

    Swapped a pump a few months ago in my brothers E30. Wasnt any E30's in the scrappy, but we spotted an E46 M3 that had been properly gutted. Pump was still there though, so i ripped it out the cradle paid £25 for the "318i pump" and made it fit!
    #11
  13. Karlos the Avant
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    Karlos the Avant A4 1997 18t Avant,17" Chromes

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    [Oct 12, 2009]
    cool, thats well worth a try for me then, as soon as i get them both out i will have a better idea what im up against and if i get stuck i will post pics of them both pumps before i start to pull them apart.

    ive just been looking at the pics of B5 and B6 pumps via google and the main part, what i assume is the actual pump unit looks prety much the same.so may get away with the change over you managed on the BMW.

    if i can manage to get my turbo off and split it in half, then back on and actualy working lol, im sure with a little help i could tackle the fuel pump because now the car is running sh*t hot its really really 'P'ing me off keep stopping when the fuse blows.
    #12
  14. Karlos the Avant
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    Karlos the Avant A4 1997 18t Avant,17" Chromes

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    [Oct 19, 2009]
    afternoon all

    my new pump arrived today
    [​IMG]

    as i was already advised by Kev{cheers mate} the pump i ordered was from a newer model and not same as mine but is new Audi pump in box for £30

    thats the top off my old pump on top of tank
    [​IMG]

    thats the inside bit in the tank
    [​IMG]

    thats the new side pump section of the new pump
    [​IMG]

    thats my new pump wire conector
    [​IMG]

    thats my pump wire conector
    [​IMG]

    The first thing is how do i get the tank section out of my fuel tank?

    The next thing is it possible to make one good pump out of the 2 or could i take all my pump out of the tank and drop the new one in there?

    Any help or advise would be greatful

    kindest regards
    Karl
    #13
  15. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Oct 19, 2009]
    ok in the third last image there is a cream bit in the middle with the pipe connections and wires going onto it and its held in by three plastic clips round the outside...

    Push those clips and the pump should slide out of the swirl pot.

    Then on the same part on your car you need to do the same (theres more clips) then compare the two pumps once they're both out.

    The B6 pump seems to have an extra pipe, perhaps just the return? Might be more obvious once you get the pump out the carrier.
    #14
  16. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Oct 19, 2009]
    It must smell loverly inside your car at the mo,lol
    #15
  17. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Oct 19, 2009]
    Hmm i've noticed something...

    The Pump says 051M on it...

    8E0919051M is the pump from 2.0 FSI engined B6 cars, and i have a feeling that the pump is different on FSI engines.

    Most cars run a system where the pump pushes fuel continously to the fuel rail and a regulator on the rail controls the pressure. I THINK an FSI engine has a PWM controlled pump and no return. I may be wrong however, as there are certainly what looks like a return on that pump.
    #16
  18. Karlos the Avant
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    Karlos the Avant A4 1997 18t Avant,17" Chromes

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    [Oct 19, 2009]
    thanks Kev,

    i have managed to get the old pump out and found 2 things that dont look good.

    this is the side view exactly as it came out
    [​IMG]

    this is another view of the old tank that looks twisted and not sat together correctly
    [​IMG]

    this is the other thing i dont like, the black wire near my thumb is all bent and showing wires hanging out.
    [​IMG]

    the connector from the sender on the side of my tank section that plugs into the top section also has dodgy conections

    could any of these be causing my fuse to blow ?
    #17
  19. Karlos the Avant
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    Karlos the Avant A4 1997 18t Avant,17" Chromes

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    [Oct 19, 2009]
    I have fitted new wiring to the pump and new connectors on the sender unit to see if this resolves the issue before i go pulling the old and new pump apart.

    it seems to be ticking over a little smoother and seems to go ok but the fuse only ever went on the motorway on the way to work after about 10-15 miles on the motorway.

    I looks like the actual pump its self is the same in both units but cant see exactly till if and when i pull them apart.

    fingers crossed it may be ok now because the wires were in a bad way and large chunks of connector plastic now cleaned out the tank with new filter on.

    I am still getting smooth running and boost is going up to 1.3-1.4 bar so its cool for now
    #18
  20. rasA4
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    rasA4 Four Rings Mafia Specialist

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    [Oct 20, 2009]
    Good luck!
    #19
  21. Karlos the Avant
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    Karlos the Avant A4 1997 18t Avant,17" Chromes

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    [Oct 20, 2009]
    lol it smells cooooooooool maaaaaaaaaaaaaaan :puke2:
    #20
  22. Karlos the Avant
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    Karlos the Avant A4 1997 18t Avant,17" Chromes

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    [Oct 20, 2009]
    im a bit stuck as to what to do for the best to be honest mate.

    do i pull the new pump apart and go for the swop over or do i stick it on here and ebay for sale, then buy the exact one i need.

    do the fuel tanks fit from newer models? then i can run the exhaust through the middle and put twin exits on the back.

    I dont mind paying for the tank if it resolves my exhaust issues as well and then i can do it how i want it and not just the only way i can now.

    what issues are there chainging the tank? would it fit?

    any thoughts on this would be greatful.
    #21
  23. Karlos the Avant
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    Karlos the Avant A4 1997 18t Avant,17" Chromes

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    [Oct 20, 2009]
    lol i may need it
    #22
  24. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Oct 20, 2009]
    Doubt the tank from another model will fit. The tank will be shaped to fit the cars floorpan.

    Take the FSI pump out of the plastic housing and post a pic of it. Might be a bit clearer once its out if it will be usable or not.

    If it was my car, i'd find a pump that fits and stick it in the original cradle. A B6 pump would probably have worked, as i'd imagine had it been from a normal petrol model it'd have been identical anyway.
    #23
  25. Karlos the Avant
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    Karlos the Avant A4 1997 18t Avant,17" Chromes

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    [Oct 20, 2009]
    thats the pump section took out
    [​IMG]

    it came out of this:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    thats top view:
    [​IMG]

    thats bottom view
    [​IMG]

    pump shown inside casing:
    [​IMG]

    they look prety much same as the one i had out the tank Kev ?

    do you think i could drop this part in the tank
    [​IMG]
    to repace this part as direct swop:
    [​IMG]

    that way i wouldnt have to get the actual pump out the outer casing mmmmmmmmm
    #24
  26. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Oct 20, 2009]
    Well theres an extra pipe on the new one, need to work out what that does... What does it connect to?

    Also, i would remove the pump itself (the shiney metal cylinder) from the plastic, and swap just the pump over into the B5 plastics....
    #25
  27. Karlos the Avant
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    Karlos the Avant A4 1997 18t Avant,17" Chromes

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    [Oct 20, 2009]
    the other pipe goes down the back into the side bottom hole from the outside of this case and sits behind the valve inside {yellow valve}
    [​IMG]
    #26
  28. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Oct 20, 2009]
    So it comes out of the top of the pump and discharges into the swirl pot?
    #27
  29. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Oct 20, 2009]
    Is there another return pipe somewhere else on the new pump?

    Your original pump housing will have had two pipes going to the top plate, the one from the pump and the other feeding into the swirl pot ye?

    Does this new pump also have two connections on the top plate?
    #28
  30. Karlos the Avant
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    Karlos the Avant A4 1997 18t Avant,17" Chromes

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    [Oct 20, 2009]
    thats the new pump with all the pipes showing just not screwed together
    [​IMG]

    thats the pump back in place in case
    [​IMG]

    i dont mind messing about if i get it to work because its still the fraction of the price of a new audi pump.
    #29
  31. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Oct 20, 2009]
    So on the sender head there are two pipes? one with a black fitting that presumably connects to the pump, and anohter that goes inside the swirl pot?

    I really dont know why the pump has that additional pipe that runs down the side of the swirl pot...

    Can you take the pump itself out of the plastic and see if it has a manufacturers part number on it?
    #30
  32. Karlos the Avant
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    Karlos the Avant A4 1997 18t Avant,17" Chromes

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    [Oct 20, 2009]
    the pipe coming from the top of the pump goes on the plastic pipe conector just in front of it on the pic of the new pump together
    [​IMG]
    #31
  33. Karlos the Avant
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    Karlos the Avant A4 1997 18t Avant,17" Chromes

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    [Oct 20, 2009]
    could i take all my insides out of the tank like this pic
    [​IMG]

    if so how do you get the small tank the pump is sat in ? and if i do, can i then just drop all the new pump in my tank and cut my conecting plug off and the spade conect my wires to the new pump ?

    was the tank shape changed or just the pump and the way it was put together?
    #32

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