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Frankenturbo'd A4 TQS build thread !

Discussion in 'A4/S4 forum(B5 Chassis)' started by Bradderz_1988, Jul 29, 2011.

  1. Jason.s

    Jason.s Active Member

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    £236.96 inc vat :)
     
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  3. Bradderz_1988

    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    ^^ pics ???
     
  4. LOBA Si

    LOBA Si Member

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    Brad if you do want a LOBA unit give me a shout ill sort a discount.
     
  5. Bradderz_1988

    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    No Worries mate will do think im putting of getting horsepower and getting the car looking good and driveability as it should be and refresh the whole car mod it a little then when the time is right ill be doing something with it in terms of horsepower just out of curiosity what would your turbo be good for bhp with supporting mods and also what we talking moneys ???
     
  6. aragorn

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!"
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    The problem on the A4 is that no matter what shiney bits you build up, your still stuck with the TINY turbine housing.

    I dont really think 280hp is achieveable, as even with a massive compressor the hot side housing is simply too small.

    If i was starting from scratch, i'd use a K04-020 from a TT/S3, and fit the A4 turbine housing. The compressor is good for about 270hp, and thats probably already past the limits of what the turbine housing will flow. Realistically, if you want more than around 250-260hp, a hybrid using the original K03 hotside just isnt the right option for these cars.
     
  7. LOBA Si

    LOBA Si Member

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    Aragon the hot side (CNC PORTED) on our LO280 Is same size as our S3 1.8 LO320 Turbocharger and 340hp has been made ... LO280 has same running parts as KO4 s3 2.0 unit... also note size of our Billet intake

    280Hp can be made and beaten no problem we feel on LO280 so much so we decided not to use a cut back turbine





    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    regarding price please contact me
     
    #86 LOBA Si, May 19, 2012
    Last edited: May 19, 2012
  8. aragorn

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!"
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    The hotside isnt anywhere near as large as the S3 one. The size of the volute is nowhere even close, and the turbine discharge area is smaller. The A4 housing is even smaller than the A3 1.8T part.

    You can easily machine the S3 housing to take the 45mm RS6 turbine for instance (and 340hp has only ever been made on a 2283 wheel on an S3 with a 45mm turbine), but the A4 part is already very close to the limit when its bored out to take the 42mm S3 turbine.

    The turbo on my car has a compressor that was rated to something like 265hp (2077ETT) and on Marks 1.8T with every bolt on imaginable it hit a ceiling at 245hp and just wouldnt make any more power without sending the EGTs skyhigh.

    Not only that, but the 2283 wheel was causing surge issues on S3's with their larger housing coupled with the bigger 45mm turbine, so i can only imagine this issue would get worse on the A4 with its tiny restrictive exhaust side.

    Do you have any supporting data for your LO280 product? Theres been quite a few years of hybrid info on this forum, and to date i've never seen a UK car beat 245hp on the B5 platform with a bolt on turbo.

    Bearing in mind the cost of buying a GT28RS or similar which will make a solid >300hp without breaking a sweat, vs the cost of an LO280, coupled with the fact that everything you need to change to fit the 28RS also needs changed to get the most out of the LO280 (ie manifold, turbo intake, downpipe etc) makes trying to squeeze silly power out of the tiny standard parts a futile exercise IMO!
     
  9. LOBA Si

    LOBA Si Member

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    First of all our LO280 has a 5.88 throat cross-section. This is the specification BorgWarner call their turbine housing sizes.
    For example a stock Audi S3 1.8 Turbo has a 5.82 throat cross-section. As you see it´s not bigger.


    By the way you are not right saying our LO280 turbine housing is not capable for the biggest K04 turbine (50 to 44,5mm). And using this we are not at the limit.

    As you know the turbine wheel we are using is much bigger than the stock S3 1.8T.

    Thereby we increase the throughput to turbine as we are using the biggest KO4 turbine wheel. In this way we work against the smaller turbine outlet.


    Further this is the reason why we call that turbo LO280 and not LO320 as the upgrade unit for S3 1.8T.


    Regarding surge this is nothing new and we are fully aware, surge can be minimzed to the maximum and has also a lot to do with tuner.


    This is a new unit and we have no Dyno as yet, will provide one to show.

    (also ive seen many dynos over 340Hp on 2283 s3 compressor and 45mm turbine ....stage 2+ revo tunes and APR)


    Sorry for that short reply, but we don´t want give away our experiences and technology as many competitors are watching us and i haven't the time to go into more details against or argue your wrong.
     
    #88 LOBA Si, May 19, 2012
    Last edited: May 19, 2012
  10. Bradderz_1988

    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    So what turbine housing is the FT based on k03 or k04 ?? I may order the FT CHRA and get the internals replaced with a genuine rebuild kit and have it balanced at turbo rebuild in blackpool as it has come to life these are chinese special turbos he has.

    [​IMG]

    What comp wheel is this ??

    [​IMG]


    And finally dougs headquaters is in his garage which i found whilst searching the net on FT's gone wrong.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  11. LOBA Si

    LOBA Si Member

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    Quality costs im afraid..... Above says is why they are so cheap
     
  12. aragorn

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!"
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    I believe the FT is a 2080 ETT wheel, next size up from the 2077 in mine. Not sure on the turbine, there are quite a few similar but different wheels all around 42mm.

    Si: what turbo is the LO280 based on then? What exactly does this "5.88" represent?
     
  13. aragorn

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!"
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    Just because the guy happens to be storing his stock in what looks like a small lockup, doesnt tell you anything about the quality of workmanship or anything about the quality of parts involved. Its somewhat unfair IMO to somehow suggest that his products are **** because he works out of his garage.

    Quality parts assembled professionally in someones back bedroom are no different to quality parts assembled professionally in a huge expensive workshop.
     
  14. LOBA Si

    LOBA Si Member

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    i never said **** ...you did ! your always going on about our price trying to compare, and even pointing people to Ft Units, but we only use Genuine parts only, not Chinese or even copy parts and haven't had a failure for many years , OEM quality. but price does come into it if you have low overheads as they must and choose not use genuine BW parts.
     
    #93 LOBA Si, May 19, 2012
    Last edited: May 19, 2012
  15. aragorn

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!"
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    I never mentioned price?

    Its my belief that if your spending the best part of a grand on a turbo, which i assume is how much the LO280 will cost given your suggestion that the FT is cheap, then your better off just fitting a proper garrett unit like a GT28RS. For me its all about bang for buck, and if i was going to the effort of upgrading the turbo, and not doing it on the cheap, a hybrid isnt the best approach.
     
  16. LOBA Si

    LOBA Si Member

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    As i said we wont share to much info on specs.
     
  17. LOBA Si

    LOBA Si Member

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    "Bearing in mind the cost of buying a GT28RS or similar which will make a solid >300hp without breaking a sweat, vs the cost of an LO280."

    you have done in past too if i remember correct ? about Ft to loba maybe on here or another forum maybe

    unlike you ive never been about bang for buck, ive always gone down the route of quality counts and maybe make a little less power but it lasts... in all forms of motorsport or any machine or tuning that ive done over the many years.
     
  18. aragorn

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!"
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    So now your suggesting a GT28RS wont last and isnt a quality product?

    And roasting your engine trying to get 280hp out of the standard tiny housing is somehow better for longevity than a proper sized turbo making a comfortable level of power?

    Stick a GT28RS next to your LO280 and i think its fairly obvious which is going to more comfortably manage to make 280hp. the garrett will do it with less boost, less heat, and most likely a lower shaft speed, all of which are GOOD for longevity.

    If you dont apply some sort of "bang for buck" calculation to a purchase then you have to be ****ting money and have no issue doing things again and again.

    Dont get me wrong, hybrids have their place, but in my view only as a small upgrade or as an easy bolt in solution when your not going to town on other mods. The missus car has a hybrid, but its also completely standard in every other way. It'll be getting tuned once i sort the clutch, and i'll be accepting what it will make within the limitations of the standard exhaust and intercooler, probably 220-230hp. For that type of upgrade a hybrid is perfect.

    If your starting out with a target of 280hp, then selecting a hybrid K04 (regardless of manufacturer) just isnt the best way to go about it, espeically when the costs to install a proper turbo arent really any greater.
     
    #97 aragorn, May 19, 2012
    Last edited: May 19, 2012
  19. LOBA Si

    LOBA Si Member

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    Lol no ARAGON im not suggesting a GT28RS wont last and isnt a quality product? i feel your just being very augmentative, and this could go on and on with you so im OUT.

    Our turbochargers are built with QUALITY in mind (we also use and are a GARRETT supplier) and all our turbos have numbers and near all make the number nominated, we try to air on side of caution when giving a number.
     
    #98 LOBA Si, May 19, 2012
    Last edited: May 19, 2012
  20. aragorn

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!"
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    Your sort of missing my point, and taking it as a personal dig.

    I dont disbelieve you when you say your turbos are manufactured from quality parts.

    What i'm saying is if your spending Genuine turbo money, then there are better options for the same spend.

    In the same way as an S4 owner with failed K03's will almost invariably never install a pair of brand new K03's, they'll look at the costs, and realise that for the same spend they can buy a pair of K04's with potential for 150hp extra over what the K03's can do, and they'll go K04. Thats what i mean by "bang for buck". If they're not prepared to spend that money then they'll likely pickup a cheap second hand pair of turbos or have their broken ones refurbished.

    In the case of the B5 1.8T, its my belief that if your prepared to spend the cash that a genuine borg warner turbo costs, be it a standard K03, a K04-015 or a hybrid product such as those mentioned in this thread, then you have to consider that for the same money, you can buy a turbo like the GT28RS, which i believe is a better option. Not only that, but it then leaves you better set to go further in future, as something like a GT30 becomes a drop in swap.
     
  21. Bradderz_1988

    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    Look what ive arrived home too a month later :)

    [​IMG]

    Looks like im busy saturday now then lol

    Any one now were the two copper washers go i have in this kit are they for the rear calipers male ends i take it ???
     
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  23. aragorn

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!"
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    Copper washers arent required IIRC.
     
  24. Bradderz_1988

    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    Ok ill take them to work with me just incase lol

    Do you have to remove the calipers on the TQS or not as im pushed for time but a work mate is going to be helping me so he will be doing all the hard part of pumping the pedal whilst i get the easy part of cracking the bleed nipples open lol
     
  25. aragorn

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!"
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    For the rear, screw the pipe onto the caliper first and you wont need to remove it.

    Front doesnt matter, it can be done without removing no probs.
     
  26. NineNails

    NineNails Proud sponsor of the snack food industry

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    I didn't find a use for the washers either. I had a few dodgy moments un-doing things but patience and taking my time won the day ;)
     
  27. Bradderz_1988

    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    Well new hoses are fitted and seem to give a bit more bite but i need to do the rear disc and pads as the rear inner pad on one side has about 2mm left of pad and the discs have seen better days so hoping this will improve some more as there seams to be about 1-1.5" of travel in the pedal doesnt drop with engine off after being pumped so dont think master cylinder is shot (how much are these and whats best to go for any upgrades or just oem?), going to order them end of month with some gear oil as ive also got on order the center diff flange seal and new bearing along with the rear diff seal i havent fitted lol and also hopefully going to order rear diff poly bushes, front snub mount and bracket and gearbox mounts through hecktor would track density line mounts from 034 be ok or am i just better of going with street as i doubt i will ever go on a track with it lol
     
  28. Broken Byzan

    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator
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    How's the turbo doing?
     
  29. Bradderz_1988

    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    Ok still going just not got round to doing anything with it yet its still boosting and exhaust manifold has cracked which keeps throwing 00541 mixture code iirc going to do that after my other bits and bobs as still havent decided what to do, i want an atp elim lol
     
  30. aragorn

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!"
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    Forget the eliminator and just buy a real GT28RS.

    The only advantage of the eliminator is you can keep the stock manifold/downpipe, and given your manifold is burst, and its likely the replacement will also burst given the track record of these things, you might as well go proper T25/T3 flange with a decent manifold from the start.
     
  31. Broken Byzan

    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator
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    I went elim for 2 reasons, 1) it meant my existing hardware would bolt up, and b)it was a sensible price.

    If i munch this one, something full frame will replace it given the actual turbo rpice is much the same, it would then be a decent manifold and a modified DP, as well as the intake setup.. Hmm this does show how much more needs to be done to go FF
     
  32. aragorn

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!"
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    Aye, you got the tubby for a steal, which shifts the goal posts.

    But i'm sure you also had to replace your manifold anyway, so really the only thing you saved was the downpipe, so had you paid full price for the eliminatior it wouldnt have been saving all that much over full frame anyway!
     
  33. Broken Byzan

    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator
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    Aye, the mani was cracked, but whatever turbo i was fitting would have required it's replacement. Restricting factor is a decent full frame manifold is best part £500 where as a KKK style log is £90
     
  34. aragorn

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!"
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    Psi's is £250, but then postage and duty on top.
     
  35. Bradderz_1988

    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    Well saturday was a good day at it replaced the prop flange seal and the n/s/r diff seal, all wasnt to bad apart from the rear diff fill plug was one tight mutha f***er lol ended up rounding it off so the air chisel came out and try my hardest to keep on the plug as not to hit the casing few shocks and it was out.

    Prop and exhaust dropped
    [​IMG]

    Centre diff removed (which i found later didnt need to be lol)
    [​IMG]

    New seal
    [​IMG]

    Rear lower arm dropped to allow shaft to clear flange
    [​IMG]

    Acces to the flange
    [​IMG]

    Out with the old ....
    [​IMG]

    ... In with the new
    [​IMG]

    I built it back up then noticed the spring ring of the seal on the floor lol so had to strip it again but was lightning quick second time round lol

    And today i recieved the right rear disc so am very pleased with the seller best ebay experience ive had which has been solved with little hassle, so i fitted them after work -

    [​IMG]

    Next month im thinking of ordering a replacement CHRA for the turbo and pull my finger out lol
     
  36. Bradderz_1988

    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    Well ive gone and treated myself again (well it is my birthday this month so why not misses wont be happy though) lol couldnt let this one slip away but for £320 notes with bumper shocks, side mounts, fogs, headlight washers and some rs4 mesh what can i say and its also the same colour as the car so bonus as it just needs a good polish hopefully going to get it fitted buy end of the month then its turbo time !!

    [​IMG]
     
  37. B5QUAT

    B5QUAT Member

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    Nice one. Have to put some pics up when you fitted it. :)
     
  38. Bradderz_1988

    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    Cheers mate no doubt i will lol

    Oh and some more goodies arrived today :) cant thank Hektor enough for all his help and patience with the trouble he had nice one mate !!

    [​IMG]
     
  39. HEKTOR

    HEKTOR Member

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    No worries brad, it was a pleasure dealing with you. Now get on and fit those parts and let me know what you think ;-)
     
  40. Bradderz_1988

    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    Lol will do mate, going to go to work on my day off this saturday and have some fun lol
     
  41. HEKTOR

    HEKTOR Member

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    Lucky for some, i wish i had access to a ramp. Some pictures will be a must.
     
  42. Bradderz_1988

    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    Well once again ive been at it on my day off, got the S4 bumper on in the end its a tight fit as the fog mount on passenger side catches the intercooler duct but can live with that for now as will get a fmic at some point but have no pics as my phone went dead.

    So i changed the snub mount and bracket, both gearbox mounts (track density ones there like concrete more vibration and noise but the noise makes you wana floor it more as it sounds deep as tho i have a exhaust system lol) and change out the rear diff carrier bushes.

    il shut up and show you some pics
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Will up load some of the bumper at some point today or tomoz.
     

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