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Food for Thought, DPF Removal, Legal Implications

QuattroCalum Sep 12, 2017

  1. QuattroCalum

    QuattroCalum Well-Known Member quattro Audi A4 Team Avus Silver saloon Manual

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    According to the article, if you're caught with this you can be charged with no insurance as it would be void because of the modification and also you can be potentially be charged with road tax evasion. Here's the article
    http://garagewire.co.uk/news/government-investigates-dpf-removal-ahead-of-crackdown/

    I know we've heard all the scare stories before but the government are taking steps towards eradicating the DPF removal, will they get them all, I seriously doubt it but some deserve all they get judging by the clouds of smoke out of some diesels.

    http://garagewire.co.uk/news/mot-te...ng ban for mechanics advertising DPF removals
     
    Mario likes this.
  2. DieselJake

    DieselJake Well-Known Member

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    No smoke no poke.
     
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  3. QuattroCalum

    QuattroCalum Well-Known Member quattro Audi A4 Team Avus Silver saloon Manual

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    Typical attitude, if you were driving behind one of them you might change your mind.
     
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  4. DieselJake

    DieselJake Well-Known Member

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    You drive behind one and give a full review :playful:

    You've already stated before you don't like diesels so you obviously won't like them with or without DPF's and allot of us would prefer to run without something that clogs up every so often reducing mpg and performance, same as taking a cat off a petrol/older diesel.
     
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  5. QuattroCalum

    QuattroCalum Well-Known Member quattro Audi A4 Team Avus Silver saloon Manual

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    I don't mind legal diesels, I do mind diesels spewing black smoke. DPF's clog up due to another problem with one of the engine management sensors OR people who don't use a car enough to justify having a diesel in the first place. I was at the garage last week and they had a diesel in and it was sitting idling for a while, the exhaust fumes made my eyes nip, what person would think that was acceptable?


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  6. B5NUT

    B5NUT Well-Known Member VCDS Map User quattro Audi A6 Audi Avant Owner Group s tronic S-line owners group

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    Other problem is you cannot legally insure a car that has a CAT / DPF removal, as no insurance will cover illegal modifications.
     
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  7. QuattroCalum

    QuattroCalum Well-Known Member quattro Audi A4 Team Avus Silver saloon Manual

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    Yep, there's no telling some people. Would probably be quick to berate an uninsured driver but essentially condone it when driving the car with DPF/CAT removed.


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  8. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User quattro Audi A4 Audi Avant Owner Group TDi

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    So are all the VAG cars driving around that have not had the remap to correct the emissions also without insurance and illegal. They are putting out emissions beyond what the manufacturer initially specified and as such could potentially be in a higher group.
    I am more concerned about the tens of thousands of people on the road in some of the large cities that are driving around with no licence, tax, insurance, in vechicles that don't get MOT'd.
    Most of the diesel cars I see smoking excessively are older cars with no DPF originally fitted that obviously have some kind of issue.
     
    martin1984 and DieselJake like this.
  9. QuattroCalum

    QuattroCalum Well-Known Member quattro Audi A4 Team Avus Silver saloon Manual

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    Well that's up to the insurer not me, but you can bet your last penny they'll do anything to wriggle out of covering anyone that's not 100% within the law. I wholly agree with your concerns regarding drivers with no MOT road tax or insurance, that's either through choice or circumstance or they just don't care.
     
  10. QuattroCalum

    QuattroCalum Well-Known Member quattro Audi A4 Team Avus Silver saloon Manual

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    The technology they have at their disposal regarding tax, insurance and MOT these days, I don't know how so many slip through the net. They regularly check for cats etc up here but it's only in the northbound lane, what are the chances of being checked, not much I think.


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  11. A19quattro

    A19quattro Active Member

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    The worst emitting cars I see are Busses and Trucks, which the government don't seem to have deemed to require DPFs. There's also industrial engines generators and so on that I don't think come within this law either, just the general public, ordinary people who need their cars to get to and from work and so on. When they make it fair I will take it seriously, in the meantime they are just spreading more fear and fake news, which is probably just a distraction of what they are actually up to, think about it ;)
     
    DieselJake likes this.
  12. QuattroCalum

    QuattroCalum Well-Known Member quattro Audi A4 Team Avus Silver saloon Manual

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    Did you actually read the article?


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  13. A19quattro

    A19quattro Active Member

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    ...and your point is?
     
  14. QuattroCalum

    QuattroCalum Well-Known Member quattro Audi A4 Team Avus Silver saloon Manual

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    Two year testing ban for the mechanics carrying out DPF removal, I don't think that qualifies as fake news, but who knows these days :unamused:
     
  15. A19quattro

    A19quattro Active Member

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    Why haven't they done this already and what are they waiting for? Until they actually do it , it's just scaremongering. Also what about the other garages or back street places who do DPF removal but are not MOT stations, are they going to do anything about them or maybe they will just leave them, the same way they never legislated for everyone to be clean in the first place!
     
  16. QuattroCalum

    QuattroCalum Well-Known Member quattro Audi A4 Team Avus Silver saloon Manual

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    You have actually seen who's running the government?


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  17. Gazwould

    Gazwould Well-Known Member

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    Fake news...
     
  18. QuattroCalum

    QuattroCalum Well-Known Member quattro Audi A4 Team Avus Silver saloon Manual

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    There we go then, it's verified now.
     
  19. A19quattro

    A19quattro Active Member

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    Tell me you don't think there is no fake news?
     
  20. QuattroCalum

    QuattroCalum Well-Known Member quattro Audi A4 Team Avus Silver saloon Manual

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    I never said that there was "no fake news" I just don't think this is fake, ok?


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  21. A19quattro

    A19quattro Active Member

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    OK and you are entitled to your opinion.
     
  22. QuattroCalum

    QuattroCalum Well-Known Member quattro Audi A4 Team Avus Silver saloon Manual

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    So kind of you


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  23. A19quattro

    A19quattro Active Member

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    No kindness intended, just truth. I essentially don't disagree with you, I don't like sitting behind vehicles that smoke heavily and I don't think peple should be flouting the law for the sake of performance or running their cars at everyone else's (health) expense. I do think though that if the Government were going t tackle this they wouldn't need to fore-warn us, they would just do it and if they were serious, they would close the loophole tight and no-one would be able to do it. Sadly they aren't that serious so they are releasing scare stories in the hope that people will think they can't do these things any more, when in actual fact they have done nothing but to release a story (cheaper option obviously). It seems eveything that is released nowodays is meant to initiate a reaction from the reader, with one of the most recent fads being to berate Diesel cars and hope people will get rid of them, sadly many people will, and have swallowed it hook line and sinker!
     
  24. Gazwould

    Gazwould Well-Known Member

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    There's always a happy medium , a well remapped egr and dpf less modern diesel doesn't smoke .

    The two early Land Rovers I seen today , one a Disco and a Defender , OMG . Crush them .
     
  25. A19quattro

    A19quattro Active Member

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    Yep, I have to agree, I know of some DPF removed cars that run well and no visible smoke.
     
  26. DieselJake

    DieselJake Well-Known Member

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    My car smoked more when it had a cat and egr, think allot of it must come down to the map or something, either way I echo previous comments on this being one law for buses, etc and another for the common people. Diesel drivers are being penalised enough with new laws, taxes, "emissions scandals", fuel cost increments and this whole "ban" thing. The government wants people to buy new cars, same reason they promoted "clean diesels" way back when, wouldn't be surprised if down the road we get told electric cars are bad and we need to switch to hydrogen or something.
     
  27. QuattroCalum

    QuattroCalum Well-Known Member quattro Audi A4 Team Avus Silver saloon Manual

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    Smoke/no smoke, you can't see particulates but they will nestle in the deepest receptacles of your lungs


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  28. Gazwould

    Gazwould Well-Known Member

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    Then prevent from breathing them whilst driving .
     
  29. QuattroCalum

    QuattroCalum Well-Known Member quattro Audi A4 Team Avus Silver saloon Manual

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    That's a good idea, hold my breath while driving


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  30. DieselJake

    DieselJake Well-Known Member

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  31. QuattroCalum

    QuattroCalum Well-Known Member quattro Audi A4 Team Avus Silver saloon Manual

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    Plenty of poke in this one for you Jake?
     
  32. DieselJake

    DieselJake Well-Known Member

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    The car was produced before DPF's were added and states the smoke was down to intercooler piping.
     
  33. QuattroCalum

    QuattroCalum Well-Known Member quattro Audi A4 Team Avus Silver saloon Manual

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    Yep, I thought it might float your boat though


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  34. DrEskimo

    DrEskimo Well-Known Member

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    Oh the irony....

    I think you'll find current Euro VI trucks emit less NOx than modern Euro VI passenger cars:

    http://www.theicct.org/nox-europe-hdv-ldv-comparison-jan2017

    "In the meantime, high excess in-use NOX emissions from diesel cars are likely to continue. Even in 2019, the future Euro 6 (RDE/WLTP) regulation will not be as stringent as the current Euro VI HDV regulation."

    Not to mention that trucks predominately drive long distances and on motorways, were the health issues of NOx are pretty much negated. It's the high volume of diesel passenger cars in cities doing stop/start journeys in populated areas that is the problem.

    I'm all for exposing media outlets for publishing misleading articles, but don't post misleading information in the process...!
     
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  35. DrEskimo

    DrEskimo Well-Known Member

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    Back on topic, they have been threatening a clamp down on DPF removal for a while now. There are efforts to bring in emissions testing to the MOT procedure, but the major block AFAIK is that the equipment is not cheap, and expecting every MOT garage to get one is a bit wishful...

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vehicle-emissions-testing-programme-conclusions

    I personally have never understood the risk that diesel owners have taken to remove a DPF given the insurance implications, but in all my research I have not once seen an example of someone getting their insurance void due to having DPF removal. I imagine its not something they look for, and would be impossible to detect if the person had it gutted, rather than removed.

    Not saying it hasn't or wont happen, but I guess its not such a massive risk. Still, not one I would take...

    Another fair point in favour of it, is that a car with a clogged DPF can supposedly be more polluting than if it didnt have it. Not sure how accurate that claim is, but given the high cost of a replacement DPF, I don't blame the average Joe for looking at the option of getting it mapped out.

    In all, I think the current diesel emission control hardware is woefully inadequate. It is the reason I have avoided diesels. Well that and I think they sound pants and I only do low mileage, so it's not suitable for me at all....
     
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  36. A19quattro

    A19quattro Active Member

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    I did say "the worst emitting vehicles I see" which are older busses and trucks with black smoke pouring from the tailpipe and I dare say modern, better maintained vehicles are not such an issue, so no mis-leading information in what I said. I know the regulations for them have changed as well but what seems to be happening where I stay is bus companies for example are buying older vehicles, sticking a private plate on them and then getting school bus contracts and taking kids to school. I don't have kids but I think if I did I would be more concerned about it than the general public seem to be. I appreciate what was said above as well that seeing emissions isn't eveything and there are still particualtes in the air regardless but if you can actually see black smoke then there is no doubt.
     
  37. B5NUT

    B5NUT Well-Known Member VCDS Map User quattro Audi A6 Audi Avant Owner Group s tronic S-line owners group

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  38. Gazwould

    Gazwould Well-Known Member

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    They've been saying about tightening up mot dpf testing for years...

    How will they do this ??

    What they should do is reduce the current smoke opacity limits as they are super slack .
     
  39. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User quattro Audi A4 Audi Avant Owner Group TDi

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    From the thread on UK Passats that you know all about Gaz.
    https://mattersoftesting.blog.gov.uk/how-the-eu-roadworthiness-package-affects-the-mot/
    Looks like EU5 and 6 cars will be subjected to more stringent tests that will probably involve tightening up of the measured PM from the exhaust.
    Will probably mean that MOT test stations will have to purchase more sensitive equipment to perform the test.
    Euro5 specifications came in at the beginning of 2009 and were mandatory from 01/01/02011.
    https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/know-how/euro-emissions-standards/
    So I suspect they will change the MOT to really tighten up on these newer vechicles probably all vechicles registered after 01/01/2011 subject to tighter tests. You can tell what emissions group your car was built to as it is noted on the vechicle weight plate with VAG cars.The plate is usually located under the bonnet near the bulkhead on top of the inner wing.
    This is an EU4 car.
    [​IMG]
    My clonky old car is only an EU4+ so hopefully shouldn't make any difference to me. EU4 cars will pass emissions without a DPF, There are plenty of cars driving around that are EU4 that never had a DPF from new.
     
  40. b2

    b2 Member

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    There was supposed to be a visual inspection for a blatant straight pipe cut and install job, but people got around that by gutting the dpf's so you cannot tell now, as it looks O.E.M

    The truth of the matter is the government have given up because there is no way to 100% tell if a DPF has been removed without in depth engine diagnosis which they are not capable of testing, so based on this Diesels are BAD and should be avoided and taxed heavily to discourage people buying them and Hybrid / Petrol are GOOD now.

    One of the biggest U-Turns in recent UK motoring history but lets not mention that, another story for us to tell our grandchildren from the good old days.
     

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