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FMIC questions...

Discussion in 'Tuning' started by DuncS3, Mar 1, 2005.

  1. DuncS3
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    DuncS3 Member

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    Regarding FMICs on the S3...
    Is simply the fact that you place an intercooler on the front of the car, so more surface area hitting more air that makes it more efficient than the 2 smics on the S3 (even if it was the same volume), or does it help because you use one with bigger volume than the two singles combined ?

    I am looking at cooling for the summer and not sure whether to go for water injection (not intercooler spray but the 1S aquamist system) or a FMIC...

    I understand about risks with water injection but I wouldnt be mapping my car to take the water into account, so that removes any risk from that...

    Dunc
    #1
  2. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    The way i understand it is basically keep the volume as close to stock as possible whilst maximizing surface area. The stock I'cs are not in the best location to be honest, and they have alot blocking them, and they are deep along with having plastic end caps.... I would go for a bigger front-on core but thinner to keep the volume about right.

    Someone correct me if im wrong.

    RIch
    #2
  3. amb276s3
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    amb276s3 bird spotter

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    I have just had a Sportec FMIC fitted at AMD, not sure about volume but is slightly larger than the 2 side mounts combined, the side mounts suffer from 'heat soak' where the power drops off further up the rev range, my car now pulls very strong above 5000 revs and feels much smoother with it, not sure about any bhp gains. hope this helps. AB
    #3
  4. simonelman
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    simonelman Member

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    Dunc
    The FMIC is on my desk waiting for you.

    SimonS3MTM
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  5. DavidR
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    DavidR Active Member

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    Dunc, you are correct in that its all about surface area. The OEM ones are quite stubby therefore not so efficient at heat exchange than a long flat IC.

    Keep volumes close to OEM to avoid pressure drops and get surface area as large as possible.

    I guess that the location under the number plate is better for air flow too.
    #5
  6. Ryanc
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    Ryanc Active Member

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    Are you getting rid of your fmic simon?why?
    #6
  7. simonelman
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    simonelman Member

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    No I had a couple made.

    Simon
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  8. Ryanc
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    Ryanc Active Member

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    i have one of them on my car,got it from ben around a year ago.What did you do with the map sensor on the ic pipe?
    I'll have a RR shoot-out with you when you get your hybrid fitted.
    #8
  9. simonelman
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    simonelman Member

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    [ QUOTE ]

    I'll have a RR shoot-out with you when you get your hybrid fitted.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I look foward to that /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh_roll.gif

    SimonS3MTM
    #9
  10. pure
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    pure Member

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    Is it possible to fit a smaller FMIC as well as the 2 x smaller IC's at either side of the car?

    Do you think this would give any gains...or will they just not work correctly?
    #10
  11. monty77
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    monty77 Member

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    ..well s3mon's spare FMIC is now on my desk..and seeing as my S3 is going it's surplus to requirements.

    If anyone wants it, pm me.

    Cheers,
    Adam
    #11
  12. imported_hookie
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    imported_hookie Guest

    [ QUOTE ]
    you would suffer from pressure drop across the ic's therefore working the turbo harder and creating more heat.sum up-not worth it.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I thought as you have a larger capacity for the pressure side of the intake system you'd experience a kind of lag initially, so the car would maintain power but be less responsive initially
    #12
  13. Ryanc
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    Ryanc Active Member

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    Never got over 40 degrees intake temps on a 30 degree day.This was over 20 dyno runs.Full Boost.
    #13
  14. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Has anyone checked intake temperatures with large FMIC?



    [/ QUOTE ]

    I cheked mine with a decent FMIC and a bespoke uprated SMIC running in series and I was seeing 20-25 degrees on full boost of 1.89 bar, depending on ambient

    On the dyno you'd see 2-3 degrees higher...maybe, depending on the temperature of the ambient air being fed by the fans.

    BTW, at 1.4 bar peak, on standard ICs I was seeing 78 degrees inlet charge temperature!
    #14
  15. Ryanc
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    Ryanc Active Member

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    [ QUOTE ]

    BTW, at 1.4 bar peak, on standard ICs I was seeing 78 degrees inlet charge temperature!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Thats consistent with the 80 degree inlets i saw on a chipped a3 1.8t on the dyno.
    #15
  16. Pontio
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    Pontio Member

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    Ess three is that 1.89 bar boost a typo?
    #16
  17. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Ess three is that 1.89 bar boost a typo?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Nope.
    1.85-1.89 (depending on the run) peak boost...held to over 1.3 at the red-line.

    Standard turbo and manifold...

    Modified APR map...heavily modified everything else...

    332 lb-ft and 275 ish BHP.

    It would make that all day...every day...

    I believe David is now running slightly less peak boost, but holding it longer...figures like 320 lb-ft and 280-285 BHP are now common.
    #17
  18. Ryanc
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    Ryanc Active Member

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    Mines running a conservative 1.2bar peak and held at the moment.
    Was experimenting and accidentally went to 1.55bar and spun all 4 wheels in 4th gear in damp conditions....very scarey,probably had somewhere near 380lb/t for a moment!!
    #18
  19. Pontio
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    Pontio Member

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    Ess three did you blow any turbos? thats high boost! cant have been good.. im just going for the vf34 kit, run similar to ryanc's set up/power figures. should run fairly reliably all day.
    #19
  20. s3bow
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    s3bow Member

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    vag-com mate, changing the duty cycle in the map. Not me doing it . Mate of mine does it.

    Chris.
    #20
  21. Ryanc
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    Ryanc Active Member

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    Vag-com can only read to 1.54bar.
    It will flat line at this point.
    #21
  22. Ryanc
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    Ryanc Active Member

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    It's definetly not great running a k04 at 1.9bar,did you get some lovely squealy noises glen??
    #22
  23. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    What did you change in the map to get it to anywhere near 1.89.
    I'm running 100 % duty cycle on the N75 and only peaking at 1.5bar. Checked for leaks, and put the mikalor clamps on.
    ???????

    Chris.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    A bespoke aggressive modified APR map, modified turbo pipes, all samco hoses, 2 x bespoke ICs, modified airbox, N75H or J valve, Milltek cats, exhaust etc...
    Nothing serious...a lot of it was luck!

    Not sure about N75 duty cycle...I never checked it. 100% I'd assume.

    Mikalor clamps though...got caught 80 miles from home when I blew an IC hose off with 1.6 bar peak.

    Injector cycle times are high...but not critical...and the lambda value is safe...

    This is only the peak boost mind...so it doesn't hold it long.
    #23
  24. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    What are you logging boost with? vag-com or a guage?
    Which n75 are you using?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    VAG Com and a calibrated pressure transducer on the MAHA dyno.

    Conformed by my temp pressure gauge installed for verification purposes.

    IIRC, Vag Com read to approx 2600mba on my car...
    No use beyond that.

    N75H for the biggest output...J was approx 2-5 lb-ft behind and a couple of BHP less top end...but seemed to hold the boost longer.
    To be honest, there was nothing between them...dyno tolerance is 2% or similar...so it's hard to be accurate when comparing H to J valves.
    #24
  25. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Ess three did you blow any turbos? thats high boost! cant have been good.. im just going for the vf34 kit, run similar to ryanc's set up/power figures. should run fairly reliably all day.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    No...still on it's original turbo over 4 years later.

    Run it on fully synthetic oil, changed every 6 months...warm it up properly, cool it down properly, and make massive improvements to the ICs...and you can run over 300 lb-ft easily and safely.

    Despite Mike from Jabbasport telling me that my engine bends rods at over 305 lb-ft...the engine is still perfectly sound more than 3 years after being re-mapped...and well over 2 years after settling out at 1.7 bar peak everyday.

    To follow on from that:
    I didn't tend to run 1.85+ bar all the time...the clutch couldn't cope for one thing...and in cold weather I was hitting limp mode.
    I got round the limp mode by fitting an electronic voltage clamp on the MAP sensor output...but never deemed it especially kind to the engine...so was selective when I ran it.

    The standard N75 gave 1.68-1.75 bar everyday...with everything else staying the same. This equates to approx 320 lb-ft.

    Swap to a N75 H or J and gain 10-15 lb-ft and 3-5 BHP top end.

    Inlet temps still in the 20s BTW...even on the dyno, running 1.89 bar peak!
    #25
  26. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Vag-com can only read to 1.54bar.
    It will flat line at this point.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Sounds about right...I seem to remember mine reading to 2650...but may be wrong...it's years since I've played with that.
    #26

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