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Fitted these today...

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by OllieH, Mar 20, 2010.

  1. OllieH
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    OllieH Member

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    [Mar 20, 2010]
    Fitted these puppies today :hubbahubba:

    [​IMG]


    Fitted some ebay mintex discs and pads on the rear aswell, as the originals were shot and calipers were as good as seized.

    Also, noticed when I took the oem front discs off that the inside face was all rusty, like the pads hadn't been touching the disc face at all, unlike the outside face which was very clean.

    Ran out of time (wanted to get back to watch the rugby) so haven't bled the system yet. I'll look forward to that job tomorrow :sadlike:
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  3. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Mar 20, 2010]
    Use a pressure bleeder and all will be fine... did you change the pipes and nipples over for the right configuaration? The AP's as they arrive from ebay are trailing edge, for the S3 they need to be changed to leading edge by swapping the bridging pipe and bleed nipples over... on the inside of the caliper there is an arrow indicating disc rotation... on the S3 fitment this needs to be pointing down.

    Look good don't they ;P

    <tuffty/>
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  4. OllieH
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    OllieH Member

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    [Mar 20, 2010]
    Yeah, had the seller change them round to save me the hassle. I will be using a Gunson vacuum bleed from work as I saw it in action a couple of weeks ago and made the whole process alot easier.

    Bleeding order will be: slave cylinder, nearside rear, offside rear, nearside front, offside front, master cylinder.

    Sound about right?

    Yeah, look awesome. Can't wait to test them. Any tips on running in?
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  5. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Mar 20, 2010]
    Can't remember what I did to run them in as Bill did it while mapping the car lol

    I am sure Bill will post something up to let you know...

    When bleeding the 4 pots, bleed the inboard side of the caliper first then the outboard side..

    <tuffty/>
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  6. OllieH
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    OllieH Member

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    [Mar 20, 2010]
    :icon_thumright:
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  7. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 20, 2010]
    Ollie, if they are HALF as good as Tufftys brakes they will be bloody good !
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  8. OllieH
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    OllieH Member

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    [Mar 20, 2010]
    I'm hoping so :). Miss the brembo's from my Integra. They were 300 mm with a 1200kg car so should be similar in stopping power??
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  9. emery1990
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    emery1990 Active Member

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    [Mar 20, 2010]
    I was told by the person who did my brakes to just not brake hard for about few hundred miles but on here i saw someone had put go on a quite road gain speed to like 70 or whatever and just slightly tough the brakes so there just gripping to the discs.. At first they feeels awful like your not going to stop!. but after a few hundred miles mine started to stop well/.
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  10. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 20, 2010]
    From my experience as a passenger,it's like hitting a wall pretty much and certainly looked controlled
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  11. OllieH
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    OllieH Member

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    [Mar 20, 2010]
    Yeah, will probably take this approach with mine and slowly heat cycle them.

    Happy days, can't wait :)
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  12. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Mar 21, 2010]

    2 parts to this...
    bedding in rotors... they need a gentle heat cycle into them before ANY hard abuse else all bets are off.

    Stage 1: most important for rotors
    1) Gently drive around for 10-20 miles using the brakes gently, no jumping on the new brakes to check em out.. that can kill them (thermal shock). stop and check that the pads are starting to wear an even surface on the disk face
    2) Drive to 40-50mph and "lightly brake" to a near stop 3 times and continue driving for a several minutes to allow air to cool..
    repeat above 6 or more times..
    the idea here is gentle introduction of pad to disk face, and slow progressive heat build and full cool

    Only when stage 1 has been done should you continue.. to stage 2 below

    Stage2:
    Bedding in DS2500's and 330x28 rotors
    Ideally new disks & pads @ same time for this to work.
    1) Drive to 40-50mph and lightly brake to a near stop 3 times and continue driving for a several minutes driving around not using brakes to allow air to cool..

    2) Drive to 40-50mph and slightly more pedal pressure & brake to a near stop 3 times and continue driving for a several minutes driving around not using brakes to allow air to cool..

    3) Drive to 60-70mph and brake heavily with high pedal pressure & brake to a near stop 3 times and continue driving for a several minutes driving around not using brakes to allow air to cool..


    after driving it about, stop and inspect disks for an even wear on the surface. They may be smoking after the 3rd stage, ideally you should drive around for several minutes not using brakes to allow air to cool..

    If the disk face is still looking uneven wear, then repeat the above one more time.

    job done.



    DO NOT JUMP ON THESE BRAKES FROM NEW, THEY WILL MORE THAN LIKELY JUDDER LIKE A MOFO AND ITS GAME OVER, RUINED DISKS.
    be gentle with them initially, so they build a heat cycle slowly and all will be well
    regards
    bill
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  13. OllieH
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    OllieH Member

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    [Mar 21, 2010]
    Cheers for that info Bill :icon_thumright:. Any tips on bleeding the brakes? :) Spent all day today trying to bleed them and still got air in the system!! Started out using a vacuum bleed unit, which surprisingly turned out to be **** as it wouldn't maintain a seal and kept sucking in air. Fortunately I also had a Gunson pressure bleeder which attaches to the reservoir and uses air pressure in the spare tyre to force fluid through. Did the clutch, then nearside rear, offside rear, nearside front, offside front, then lastly the master cylinder. Am I missing anything? Did both bleed nipples on the calipers, inside one first, and both bleed nipples on the master cylinder. Repeated this same process about 6 times, pedal will be stiff with the engine off, then as soon as I start the engine the pedal compresses about halfway before going stiff?! Having read alot of posts about this very same problem beforehand I thought I'd covered all areas and be ok, but it's not to be.

    I even tried compressing the brake pedal whilst bleeding just to give that extra pressure behind it. I also cycled the ABS using Vagcom to see if this made a difference, held down the brake pedal like it instructs to do, then the ABS cycled briefly and stopped, and said on the screen that the left and right front bleed nipples are open?? Repeated this a couple of times, after going through another complete bleed process, but says the same each time.

    Any ideas, as I'm stuck now. The car is driveable, but the brake pedal is just spongy.
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  14. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Mar 22, 2010]
    TBH mate I had this issue... bled a shed load through the system in the end... pedal on mine doesn't feel firm but brakes work really well...

    Not sure what else to suggest... I haven't been in another S3 to compare but I think the brakes on an S3 are heavily assisted which contributes to the vague pedal as you start getting bite even though the pedal still has travel...

    Got used to them now and not had any probs so far... if you are concerned then try bleeding again... how much fluid did you put through in the end?

    <tuffty/>
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  15. OllieH
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    OllieH Member

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    [Mar 22, 2010]
    I was using a 4L can of Comma dot 4 fluid for bleeding purposes (as I knew I'd have problems with this), with the intention of then passing the good stuff through once all the bleeding was done, however I've not done this yet. I had to reuse the fluid that I drained through twice over by filtering it back into the can. Each time I opened a bleed nipple I passed about 1 litre of fluid through. Have been driving the car today and the brakes are working. It's just disconcerning with the pedal compressing about halfway before any reaction. I'm hoping driving it about will maybe shift any air locks about so that when I give it another bleed I will hopefully sort it.

    I've not heard of any other brake kits causing this problem and having to live with it. Surely if the pedal is compressing then there is air in there??
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  16. mk1chopper
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    mk1chopper Missing the S3

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    [Mar 22, 2010]
    Iinteresting to hear your old discs had rusted on the inside, after my last service audi told me my front discs needed replacing due to being worn and corroded, the outer face is fine with hardly any wear so I thought they were just trying to get more work out of me, plus I changed the discs and pads about 25k ago and they didnt say anything about my pads needing replacing. When booking my car in at TTS for the headlamps to be sorted I asked them about this and the first thing they said is have you checked the inside face, and also asked how often I drive my S3, It doesnt get driven much so its left standing which has lead to the rusting, but why this only happens on the inside face I do not know.

    As to your brake pedal, mine seems to compress to about half way and the feed back feels soft, unlike the brakes on my sisters clio 182 which are very sharp, which was a shock the first time I drove it and almost put myself through the windscreen.
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  17. OllieH
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    OllieH Member

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    [Mar 22, 2010]
    Yeah was surprised when I saw them as from the outside they look almost new! Don't know why it does it, especially as the piston is on the inside aswell so you would expect that pad to be definately touching??

    What brakes have you got fitted then? The missis' pug 207 diesel is the same, only have to lightly touch the brake pedal and it over servo's big time, whereas unlike what tuffty said above, I felt that the S3's brakes were under-servo'd in comparison. Maybe that's because my rears were as good as seized with all the dirt and **** built up, and the fronts weren't much better either.
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  18. mk1chopper
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    mk1chopper Missing the S3

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    [Mar 22, 2010]
    Standard setup, will be changing to black diamond/DS2500 soon. Not sure if the Clio brakes are over assisted/servo'd there very sharp and pedal feel is good, where as the S3 seem to be progressive but lack feel (or my brakes are fooked), this might be due to the weight of the S3, but would have thought bigger brakes would be sharper.
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  19. s3ollie
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    s3ollie Member

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    [Mar 22, 2010]
    i think you are supposed to do the MC first then bleed the furthest away caliper to the nearest.
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  20. s3ollie
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    s3ollie Member

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    [Mar 22, 2010]
    also the piston sizes on your TVR's are looking pretty huge. Your peddle issue could be because you are needing to pump that much more fluid to make the brakes work as the MC will be matched for the 1 pot old s3 brakes. just a thought.

    I had Porsche 4 pots on my old s3 and the peddle defo went down alot further before any braking took place because of what i mentioned
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  21. OllieH
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    OllieH Member

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    [Mar 22, 2010]
    Maybe worth a try. Everything I've read so far suggests the way I originally did it.
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  22. OllieH
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    OllieH Member

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    [Mar 22, 2010]
    Yeah, this could be the case. It just seems to me that if the calipers, lines and MC are full of oil then there should be no compression. The movement of the pedal should be immediately transferred to movement of the pistons, as in any hydraulic system. Unless the compression is just the pistons taking up that minute gap between the pads and the disc, and like you said the MC is suited to only one pot, hence more pedal movement needed. I will have to get someone to press the pedal while I look for movement of the pots.
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  23. s3ollie
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    s3ollie Member

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    [Mar 22, 2010]
    the cupra r uses the brembo 4 pots on the same MC but each pot is about the size of a pound coin.

    Because your pots are much bigger it will need more fluid to move the same distance as hence more peddle travel.

    If it is that, dont worry your foot will get used to it as mine did. trouble is as mentioned above when you get in a different car you need to remember that the brakes will work alot sooner!
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  24. OllieH
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    OllieH Member

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    [Mar 22, 2010]
    Will give them one more bleed just to make sure, but you're probably right, will just have to get used to it. Just out of interest, do you know of a replacement MC from another model which would suit these calipers?
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  25. s3ollie
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    s3ollie Member

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    [Mar 22, 2010]
    im not to sure maybe the s4/rs4. Probly the best bet would be to use the TVR one but weather that would fit im not sure.

    do the MC first im sure if there is air in the system and your not getting any out the calipers this will be your problem. I too spent hours bleeding wonedering why the peddle just dropped when i fitted my 4 pots. didn't even know there was any nipples on the MC. Once i did that bingo!
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  26. SteveBAM
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    SteveBAM Black '03 S3

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    [Mar 22, 2010]
    i love those rotors,:hubbahubba: where can i find a pair???
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  27. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Mar 22, 2010]
    Badger 5....

    <tuffty/>
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  28. OllieH
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    OllieH Member

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    [Mar 22, 2010]
    Will maybe look into the upgraded MC in the future then.

    as tuffty said, Badger 5 supplied the discs, bells, pads, brackets, bolts and stainless lines. The discs are 330mm. The calipers were £325 on fleabay.
    #27
  29. N8
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    N8 Kowalski Details VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 22, 2010]
    Nice!
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  30. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Mar 22, 2010]
    Sourcing a different MC could be an issue as the S3 MC has sensors in it to assist ESP, changing it with a part that doesn't have these (such as a TVR one) will give you some fairly large probs I suspect...

    I used the S3 tonight to go to Bill's (been using my Mk2 Golf a bit recently) and yes, the travel may feel a little long and the pedal a little woolly by they do stop bloody well when pressed...

    You may feel them getting better once you have bedded then in...

    I did have a quick look at the Brembos Bill had on the shelf and compared them to a pair of the AP's... the AP is a physically larger caliper than the Brembo but not by much. The Brembo will take up to a 28mm wide disc where the AP will take up to 30mm... Piston wise there didn't look anything in it but I didn't get a chance to measure them.

    Bleed them through with the proper fluid and bed them in... I think they will be OK mate IMO..

    <tuffty/>
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  31. OllieH
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    OllieH Member

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    [Mar 22, 2010]
    Ok, cheers tuffty. Next chance I get, I'll give them another bleed and then pass the good stuff through. Haven't bedded them in yet, but can already feel how good they are. I would even go as far as to say they are better already than the oem setup I had (they were in a bad state though). Will bed them in properly tomorrow.

    With the brembo's being fairly similar in physical size and pot size it makes you wonder how the LCR's brakes are with the same MC?? Anyone ever driven one?
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  32. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Mar 23, 2010]
    the is no issue with the calipers, its entrapped air.. and unfortunately the mk4 platform cars are a complete arse to bleed up
    #31
  33. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Mar 23, 2010]
    one pot but big one pot..
    volume of the 4 smaller pots is not massively different..
    the AP's look very similar size to the Brembo's which have no effect on pedal travel
    spongy pedal is expanding pipe somewhere or more likely air stuck in a corner
    #32
  34. OllieH
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    OllieH Member

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    [Mar 23, 2010]
    It has actually got better today. Whether thats because the brakes are starting to bed in or whether an air lock has shifted, I don't know. At some point I will re-bleed and pass the good stuff through you sent me. Any idea how much fluid (roughly) the whole system has? Just wondering how much of the two bottles you sent me to pass through??

    Hadn't thought about the size of the pot. Doubt it is an expanding pipe as it wasn't there before I fitted the calipers, plus I've fitted the stainless pipes on the front now aswell. As I already said, the brakes are starting to feel better now. I'm still only at stage 1 of the bedding in as I only drive a few miles to work and back and haven't had the time yet to go out for a proper drive. I'm definately glad I fitted them, whether I manage to sort the pedal travel out or not. Not only do they look awesome on the car, but from what people are saying, the stopping force is going to be immense. Cheers again for the supply of the discs and associated parts :icon_thumright:
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  35. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Mar 23, 2010]
    usually between 2-3 bottles of motul does the job, but it has taken x4 more when you get one which plays up and has an airlock which wont chase out.
    leaving it for a while, using them and having another go is a good way.. they usually get more settled.
    #34

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