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finance

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by steve184, Dec 29, 2007.

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  1. sukrw
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    sukrw Member

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    [Dec 31, 2007]
    I had not heard of Motorlogix before reading your post.

    Just taken a look - it seems quite a saving on a brand new A3 sportback diesel ... without finance .. hhmmmm part of me wishes I had seen this before buying my A3 a few months back ... Hey ho ... there is always next time.

    Thanks for the info - will keep it book marked ... maybe it can be used for a good/decent discount from the main stealers ...?
    #41
  2. marriedblonde
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    marriedblonde Moderator

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    [Dec 31, 2007]
    How can there be no risk? I'm assuming they are investing in the stock markets or something?
    #42
  3. RGBArgee
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    RGBArgee Guest

    [Dec 31, 2007]
    Need to know the figures to be sure on this. There is also one hell of a risk in foreign investment IMHO... (also in me 50's..)
    #43
  4. steve184
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    steve184 Active Member

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    [Dec 31, 2007]
    well.. some interesting scenarios here.... some make me feel a bit like im running up an escalator going down! - i'm 28, i work my ass off (albeit as an employee!) and I live with my mum - not sure im happy sinking every bit of money and salary i have on my own into a pile of bricks worth 100k, leaving me with nothing else. But on the other hand I am concerned that i keep piling most of my capital into cars, (which i generally get back out again) - i generally work it so all i lose is my loan repayments - which are miles cheaper than pcp repayments would be - but i wonder if i would be better not sinking my capital into a car and paying more monthly, which i would then get back as interest on the capital - i dunno really its 6 of one and half a dozen of the other right?
    #44
  5. Kontraband
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    Kontraband Active Member

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    [Dec 31, 2007]
    yeah, another PCP'er here. I used to work for Leaseplan so have a few good contacts in the market although this time I used my contacts best quotes to make the dealer drop theirs :rockwoot: At 30 now, with my own house, wifey and 2 expensive kids the fact I can just say Im paying £500 a month for the car is pretty tidy. I dont have the primary £30k outlay, and I dont have the hassle of selling the thing at the end and having tyre kickers and test pilots come round. When something goes wrong, I drive into the dealer tell them whats up and give them the keys... after that I get the keys back problem fixed and the beer money is still in my wallet. I have PCP'd or sorts now for the last 11 years.

    At the end of the day tho... horses for courses... I dont ever want to keep a car longer than 3 years but I never own the car either. I can see more the value or 'buying' a house than buying a car, so as such I lease my car and bought my house. :)
    #45
  6. sat1983
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    sat1983 Member

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    [Dec 31, 2007]
    I know it sounds dodgy, but somehow it isn't. My mum and dad would NEVER part with their hard earned easily. I don't know the ins and outs of it all, but I know for sure my dad would never have let his money go without knowing ALL the facts and figures.
    Not that I work for them or anything but just pop down to your local HSBC and ask about their investments plans.:)
    All I know is £9k in 2 months ain't to be spat at!!
    #46
  7. RGBArgee
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    RGBArgee Guest

    [Dec 31, 2007]
    Try these numbers. If you lease @ 500 mth =18k over 3 years

    List 30k. Cash buyer 10% off (most models) =27k

    Residual @ 3 yrs 36,000 miles circa 60% say 18k.

    Interest (or loss of if you have cash!) :hubbahubba: on 27k @ say 6% = £135 a month

    Loss in 3 years = 9k or £250 a month. (MUST SAVE IT)

    Cost pre maintenance = 385 a month therefore over 3 years have 115 a month (x36 = 4140) to cover tyres, and maintenance IMHO say 4 tyres say (500) + 2 x services (500) therefore over three grand in profit.. BUT a big health warning, Value of car may be less than 18k (may be more!) you may need more tyres, etc etc... There is no risk with PCP so if you cannot afford the risk may be a good option..
    #47
  8. Kontraband
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    Kontraband Active Member

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    [Dec 31, 2007]
    yeah... its all the variables that need to be taken into account... such as the mileage p.a., the tyres, maintenance costs/frequency etc etc. At the end of a lease the balloon is less than the value of the car you then buy that car at the lower price to keep/sell on and use the profits for a deposit elsewhere. If the balloon is more you give it back.. no loss other than the fact youve paid out for 3 years but have nothing to show for it. ;)
    #48
  9. odnet
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    odnet newbie

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    [Dec 31, 2007]
    i did mine direct through audi...

    s3, 3k of options (or there abouts).
    £500 down, the rest over 3 yrs with a balloon.
    works out at about £516 a month... £500 a month from the company (minus mr browns xmas party allowance), plus the mileage allowance means i just about get it for free (or a company perk if you get me)...
    suits me as after 3 years i have to change as part of the company policy...

    quote "I retro fitted the RNS-E for £660 to save money." does anyone know who does this? i want to get it done as soon as i get the new car but don't really want to do it myself, i'm bound to screw it up!!

    cheers

    ivan
    #49
  10. consilio
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    consilio Up the owls!

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    [Dec 31, 2007]
    S8Craig on this forum will do it. He's in Manchester
    #50
  11. odnet
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    odnet newbie

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    [Dec 31, 2007]
    thanks consilio, i'll drop him a PM!

    cheers!!
    #51
  12. RGBArgee
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    RGBArgee Guest

    [Dec 31, 2007]
    #52
  13. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Dec 31, 2007]
    Seems everyone is missing the point here, PCP's are a total rip off unless you do very little mileage & can afford to haemorrage £500 a month on nothing (closer to £850 gross). You are renting the vehicle!
    If you do little mileage then work out how much that equates to per mile - will be more than £1 per mile gross + fuel.
    If you get a company car allowance then rather than spending it all (and then some) on a new car why not buy secondhand and actually make money?
    This is what I've done for the last 8 years, the money saved is frightening and goes straight into my Virgin One account. I'm now in a position at 43 where I own outright a rental property, and will have paid my other mortgage off in the next 18 months.
    I don't think I'd get £23k's worth of enjoyment running a brand new car for 3 years, but keep buying them folks, more bargains for me on the secondhand market!
    #53
  14. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Dec 31, 2007]
    Do I get £11-12k worth of enjoyment out of running my new car. That's say £4k a year to be driving a brand new car to exactly my specification. I'm quite happy with that.

    Personally I've never really liked second hand goods - I'm even still with my original wife!
    #54
  15. benw123
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    benw123 Moderator

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    [Dec 31, 2007]
    I paid cash for our Sportback a little over three years ago. To be honest, I sold my Focus ST170 privately and the missus Golf TDI was PX'd against it with a heap of savings. We only needed one car, and without sharing the cost we wouldn't have been able to afford the Audi.

    I can see the merits of PCP, especially since cars depreciate so badly that you might as well 'rent' them anyway. But the one good thing about owning it is that there is always a drop of collateral for us; if we need some cash urgently, a quick sale will put money in my hands.
    #55
  16. RGBArgee
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    RGBArgee Guest

    [Dec 31, 2007]
    Agree in principle, but many of us want no aggro. I went down cash in Lieu route in 1994 (M reg) and reckon I've saved about 30-40k by NOT doing PCP or Company cars. I would/ could have been more buying used but!!!:hubbahubba:
    #56
  17. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Dec 31, 2007]
    Yes, but £23k's worth of enjoyment if you'd gone down the PCP route? I don't think so.
    #57
  18. odnet
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    odnet newbie

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    [Jan 1, 2008]
    i've leased 2 bmw's over the last 21 months, saved some money.... but decided to go down the new car route so i could get exactly what i wanted this time.... i treat the car as a separate entity, its a play thing. the mortgage is paid as it should be, with overpayments here & there.... technically the company pay for the car, with a little chip in from me, i say if you earn it, spend it!... lifes too short.

    ...now back to the new years day hangover!
    #58
  19. steve1975l
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    steve1975l Member

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    [Jan 1, 2008]
    I can see the attraction of a new car but like Andy I like to keep the majority of the car allowance I get too by running my own older car. Waiting for a car with the right spec can take ages as I know...currently running around in an old banger until one I want comes along.
    #59
  20. redbutcher
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    redbutcher Member

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    [Jan 1, 2008]
    It ended up being just over a 10% discount in the end. The figures quoted are a rough guide - when you actually do the paperwork it comes out a few pounds cheaper than the on-line quote. The car came from Bexley Audi so it was a main dealer order. My own local dealer couldn't come anywhere close to the figures I was getting from Motorlogix, so Motorlogix got the business.
    #60
  21. treblesykes
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    treblesykes Member

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    [Jan 1, 2008]
    If you ask about finance on http://www.tt-forum.co.uk you get a load of abuse for buying a car you cant afford.... stuck up barstewerds
    #61
  22. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Jan 1, 2008]
    Prices going down?
    Where are you h5djr?

    They are still rising here...very much so.
    I believe Aberdeen was recently voted one of the most expensive areas in the Uk...
    Great for us homeowners...not so great for those not yet on the property ladder.


    I've had my own place since I was 21...now got a £250k+ mortgage on a 300k+ valued house, at 36 years old.
    I don't go much for financial investments or care too much about house prices or depreciation on cars...my view is that if the house is making money, I'll offset it against what I'm loosing on cars...and pretty much break even in the long run, whilst living somewhere nice and enjoying nice cars. I have a damn good share package (buy one, get two free) through work, free life insurance through work, a good bonus scheme through work and a non-contributory final salary pension scheme also through work so the essentials are covered.
    A simplistic view perhaps...but it works for me...
    I earn it, I spend it...

    911 paid for - was on finance
    vRS paid for - bought outright
    GTI paid for - was on a personal loan.

    I don't go for PCP type deals to be honest...I want to own the car and want to be able to modify, drive, do what I like with them...and if I need to sell one/more, I'll sell them.
    I don't like tied maintenance arrangements either...I'll take my cars to whom I choose, fit the tyres and brakes I want to etc

    Big mortgage payments don't frighten me now - they did - but after 2 years...I'm used to it.
    Car Loans don't frighten me either - I've usually got one...normally take it over 4-5 years with a reasonable deposit covered by the trade-in, leave the rest in the bank 'just in case' and when I get bored and want a change (normally after 4 years or so), pay it off and change the car.

    I suppose a healthy but manageable debt is the norm nowadays...
    #62
  23. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jan 1, 2008]
    £250k mortgage? Ouch!
    Doubt your house is increasing in value by more than £1100 per month, which is what you're paying in interest.
    Each to their own, I just don't fancy working for the next 20 years and will be retired in 18 months time aged 44, which definately works for me.
    As already said life's too short (to spend the best of it working)
    #63
  24. treblesykes
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    treblesykes Member

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    [Jan 1, 2008]
    Its easy to get lured into a PCP as the apr is often a fair bit lower than other finance methods.. but as you do not repay any of the loan (just the interest) until the end of the agreement the actual finance cost is higher. I've tended to use HP or bank loans to buy cars. My next car will be bought outright as thru my years of buying VW and Audis my loan amount for each car has shrunk until it wasnt worth getting a loan at all. Its nice to drive cars that people will pay you good money for after 3years.
    #64
  25. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Jan 1, 2008]
    Not a lot of choice...
    And that was a new built that was at least valued at what I bought it for...rather than the stupid Scotish system of offering over...which in this case would likely have been £50-60k over the asking price, and at least £40-50k over the valuation.

    So a new build was the only realistic option...


    As opposed to paying well over £1000 per month renting?
    In fact, to rent a detached 5 bedroom house with double garage, it would likely be closer to £1300-1500 per month.
    Seems to work, to me.

    And I'd say it's gone up in value by £100,000 in 2 years...so overall, it's not as bad a proposition as it appears.

    You have to live somewhere...
    And if I want to leve where I do, you have to pay what the going rate is.
    Not ideal. But, sadly, that's life.


    Nice position to be in...
    The best I can do is work in a job where I work 2 weeks out of every 5 (20 weeks a year, if you prefer) and spend not a penny in the 2 weeks I'm at work...
    That, when combined with the salary and benefits, gives me the most amount of time off for the least amount of work time given, but with the best possible salary.
    Works for me...
    #65
  26. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 1, 2008]
    According to an article in today's paper house prices are expected to drop by £20,000 by next Christmas. This will be the effect of a 10% drop fall in property prices compared with their peak in August. And don't say it cannot happen, because it has happened in the past and a lot of people have been unable to pay their mortgage and have had their houses repossessed.

    Profit on your own house is only really artificial profit, unless of course you are happy to sell and move into a tent.

    I purchased my current house for £12,750. I re-mortgaged after a few years but the maximum mortgage I ever had was £20,000. It is now worth well over £200,000, so in theory I have made £187,250 profit. But if I want to move to another house I would have to pay over £200,000 for the new house, so I would be no better off. In fact by the time I had paid all the fees etc I would actually be worse off.
    #66
  27. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Jan 1, 2008]
    I'm aware it can happen...I remember it in the late 80s.

    But the fact remains, Aberdeen has lagged behind the majority of the UK for years...and prices are still rising. Demand is slowing though...but prices are rising...that is to say, valuations are rising, 'offers over' prices are rising...but the margin paid over and above is steadying...and quite likely dropping.
    And quite right....it's a daft system.


    Absolutely...
    It's not money made at all....if you want it, you have to pay interest on it.
    i'd rather the prices stayed down at mid 90s prices...the only people that get rich nowadays are the government, solicitors and banks.

    That being said, it is probably worthwhile noting that as long as the house is worth significantly more than you owe on it...you are in a healthy position.

    Yup...
    Catch 22.

    Sell a house worth say £200k to move to a house worth £300k and it's kerching all round (stamp duty, solicitors fees, mortgage fees etc)

    Nightmare...
    And the property prices still rise around here...

    And tied to the cost of borrowing money is the rise in interest rates...which means that Personal Loans rise in cost, so do PCPs, flat Finance Rates etc...

    So houses get dearer, cars get dearer, financing cars gets dearer...and the cost of living increases don't match the increases in other areas...no wonder debt is spiralling out of control.
    #67
  28. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jan 1, 2008]
    Wasn't comparing to renting, I was comparing ludicrous interest only 30 year mortgages and haemorraging money on new cars with reducing your mortgage payments by over paying and stemming the bloodflow somewhat.
    Having a completely flexible mortgage like the One Account really does change the way you think about finance. No financial advisor will ever recommend it & no one talks about it, because it would put them out of a job.
    We are conditioned to being in debt for at least 25 years, employers like it, mortgage companies like it, everyone's happy as it makes their world work. As soon as you start bucking the system and paying your house off in 10 years their cozy world would soon fall apart, and about time.
    #68
  29. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Jan 1, 2008]
    Oh, I'm with you there...

    You are spot on with what you say...best no look at what you have to pay back over 25 years...
    and interest only mortgages - no thanks!

    As for the cars aspect...my indulgance is a nice car...so whilst the bank may be taking my trousers down monthly with my mortgage, I can make myself feel a little better by having a very specific car exactly as I want...and am happy to 'waste' money to make that happen.

    Not the most sensible admittedly...but life is too short to think about being sensible all the time...you have to live a little...and I don't want to start living in my 50s!



    I'll be honest...it frightened me...I just don't have the balls for it.
    I see an unhealthy amount go out each month to the bank...and I try to forget it after that.

    I guess I'm just one who has been conditioned. :lmfao:
    #69
  30. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 1, 2008]
    I assume Vigin must make money from this otherwise they wouldn't offer it. Richard Branson is a nice enough guy but hardly Robin Hood.
    #70
  31. RGBArgee
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    RGBArgee Guest

    [Jan 1, 2008]
    Agree, you can get higher interest on savings and cheaper finance than Virgin but you need to work at it! If you have a non tax payer in the family put savings in his/her name and get them gross... or TESSA..

    TT
    R:hubbahubba:
    #71
  32. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jan 1, 2008]
    He actually sold it to HBOS a few years ago, but it's not rocket science, rather than a mortgage that's hidden away and forgotton about, it's more like a £200k overdraft (or whatever the amount is you need). Interest is calculated daily, and as soon as your wages go in at the end of the month the amount of interest you pay goes down (albeit temporarily, but every little helps). The real difference is the monthly statements and online projections. Makes you a bit more conscious of what you can save by over paying and how many years that'll knock off.
    When you consider a £200k mortgage will cost you over £250k in interest alone over 25 years (current 5% not going up/down), it really changes your behaviour. Which is exactly what they don't want.
    I know people with big mortgages and seperate savings (ISA's/Tessa's whatever) = complete madness, but that's what an IFA will recommend everytime.
    #72
  33. sukrw
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    sukrw Member

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    [Jan 1, 2008]
    It is what we did - we moved our mortgage to OneAccount and then sold off all the ISA's and TESSA's etc and just off-set the mortgage in the OneAccount.

    using their little gismo to see how much you can save in interest by over paying in lump sums and each month certainly gives you in the motivation to start moving money around to off-set and pay a little extra when you get a bonus or overtime etc...
    #73
  34. treblesykes
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    treblesykes Member

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    [Jan 1, 2008]
    my two pence worth... many will disagree but what the heck:-

    A mortgage will probably be the cheapest finance you will ever get, why rush to pay it off, let inflation reduce it over time. By the time I retire my interest only mortgage will still be £60000, where as a small hatchback will probably cost more than that, so my house will cost me a ford fiesta!. I know I pay interest on this £60000 but if I was to pay it off then I could end up borrowing at higher interest to fund car purchases etc. Recently my money has been earning me more in a cash isa than my mortgage has been costing me (per 1000). Other money invested in unit trusts has performed much better than the cash isa but with a risk involved (eg. allianz bric A stars up 57% in a year tax free)
    Basically dont pay your mortgage off unless your sure you wont need that money for anything else and or you cant use it in a more profitable (or fun) way.

    A case in point... my mate was thrilled to get a £10,000 bonus from his work, he used it towards his mortgage, then his wifes scenic failed its mot in a big way and he had to get a bank loan to buy a newer car.

    One accounts are a good idea but the interest rates arn't always the best and the last time I looked at them you couldn't fix the rate. Seems to me you only benefit from one if you have a lot of savings and pay higher rate tax
    #74
  35. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jan 1, 2008]
    Yep another person obsessed with interest rates. Did your IFA tell you that? It's not the interest rate that's important it's the total cost of ownership of the mortgage. Work it out. How much interest will I have paid over the duration.
    People really make me laugh when they bang on about getting a magic interest rate, there are no magic interest rates, just the same one packaged differently, i.e. x% below base but with a £4k setup charge!
    It's just like a copier contract, people look at the cost per page and think they're getting a good deal, but they shaft you elsewhere.
    If you need cash for an unforseen event then with the One Account you just take it. As long as you have overpaid, then you don't even need to call them.
    Yes it's the cheapest finance you can get - BECAUSE IT'S ON THE MOST EXPENSIVE THINK YOU'LL EVER BUY OVER THE LONGEST PERIOD!
    Sounds like you've bought & swallowed the classic tale of keeping IFA's and mortgage advisors in business mate.
    #75
  36. treblesykes
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    treblesykes Member

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    [Jan 1, 2008]
    I understand your point but I don't use an IFA or take other advice. The interest rate is important to me as it show me what borrowing that money costs me. If the rate rises and my mortgage does start to cost me more than my money is earning me then I would pay off the mortgage.

    Calculations showing you how much you save by paying your mortgage off sooner never seem to show what your money could be earning for you somewhere else.

    I also have a mortgage for a buy to let property also interest only, as the interest payment are tax-deductable so I will never repay that mortgage as that would be a tax disaster unless I had to spend a lot on repairs etc.
    #76
  37. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jan 1, 2008]
    Sound like you need to remortgage to the max and put the equity into your ISA. Somehow I don't think you're calculations are strictly accurate otherwise everyone would be borrowing to the hilt and investing it in an ISA! No one would ever have to work again.
    Interest only mortgages are a classic mortgage salesmans wet dream, "yes I'm going to pay £1000 interest every month for the rest of my life, where do I sign?"
    I know where you're coming from though as I had an endowment mortgage back in the 80's, so I know how easy it is to get royally shafted.
    #77
  38. sukrw
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    sukrw Member

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    [Jan 1, 2008]
    For me it was quite simple - pay off the mortgage as quick as possible to allow for more financial freedom .... and it sort of worked ! I paid off the mortgage Feb 2007 so I can now put the £1500 a month I was paying into other ventures/savings and a good job too as I get made redundant in a month or two ! hey ho but at least the mortgage is paid !

    Me and the other half went without some nice things like expensive holidays for a few years but what the hell - can still enjoy life !

    but again, just my 2p worth - it is not for everyone and my "IFA" told me not to pay off the mortgage for what it is worth ... but I wanted to get shot of it ...
    #78
  39. AndyMac
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    AndyMac Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jan 1, 2008]
    Yep, my philosophy exactly. Never could really figure out how being in debt was a financial advantage. Guess it was the way I was brought up, but I'm still amazed that in this day & age the IFA's are still pulling the same old tricks & nearly as many people keep falling for them.
    #79
  40. treblesykes
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    treblesykes Member

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    [Jan 1, 2008]
    braver men than me would have remortgaged to the max three years ago, invested in the right unit trusts and made a small fortune, but with all this doom and gloom credit crunch etc I dont think its the time to make that dangerous gamble!

    I guess most people (including me)will play the safe game some savings,some isas,some pensions, Its just that I choose not to pay my mortgage off, but this may change at any time.

    So there isn't a totally correct way as nobody has a crystal ball. Probably the only totally incorrect way is to bury your head in the sand and just do as your bank tells you.
    #80
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