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Facelift Dumbo Mirrors Fitted - Guide

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by Ash187, Dec 17, 2011.

  1. Ash187
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    Ash187 Audi-Retrofits.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Dec 17, 2011]
    I managed to find a really good deal on a pair of Auto-dimming and power folding facelift 'Dumbo' mirrors on ebay, and to my surprise they turned up this morning when they were meant to come on Monday, so i went about fitting them today. I had already fitted some dumbo mirrors a couple months back but hadn't taken any pictures of the install. Now that I was changing the mirrors over I took some pics and thought i would write up a how to.

    So firstly the door card needs to come off. there are 4xtorx20 screws holding the door card on that need to be taken out, 2 underneath the door card on either side of the puddle light, one just above the door pocket and one behind a piece of trim, as mine is a sportback i just needed to remove trim around the central lock button to get to the torx screw.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    once all 4 screws are out i gently but firmly pulled the door card away from the car starting at the bottom and then lifted it off the window edge (it helps to have the window down when doing this). As you take the card off there are a few connectors and the lock handle cable that need to be disconnected before the door card will come off.
    you should then have this (the yellow cable hanging towards the right side is the locking handle cable)

    [​IMG]

    then 2 pieces of trim need to be removed to access the mirror bolt

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    now before removing the bolt i needed to free the wiring harness for the mirror so that it will come out easily. First I disconnected the mirror plug connector from the door control module (i will explain later what that extra black wire is) and then i needed to remove the grommet on the left hand side so that the wires are free.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    now as the grommet is fairly lage it would have been hard to get it out of the small gap that that leads up to the mirror so i went about disconnecting the pins from the connector and removed the grommet from the loom. I took pictures of the pin locations so that i knew what pin goes back to its location after i take the mirror out to put them all back in the right places.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I then removed the bolt from the door and removed the existing mirror and pulled the harness out with it, then it was a case of putting the new mirror in the reverse order of what i had just done. I again removed all the pins from the new mirror base so that i could feed the harness down the door skin without the grommet being in the way.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    once the harness was in place and the new mirror base bolted back onto the car i then fed the wires back into the grommet and then repinned the connector. now you can see i have more pins on this connector as its also got the power folding pins in place.

    i then just connected it all back up as it was before.
    Now there was an extra black wire that i mentioned earlier... I didnt bother buying a new door module for the LED indicators to work so i ran a wire from the existing wing indicator to the mirror harness connector and fed it onto pin 13. this would allow the mirror indicator to work along with the wing indicator. I will be getting the wing indicator removed and the hole flushed so it looks like the 8P3 wing.

    [​IMG]

    since all of that was connected and it worked nicely i put the door card back on and the work on the drivers side was done.

    [​IMG]

    here you can see the line on the mirror glass for the auto dimming glass

    [​IMG]

    I repeated all of the above on the passenger side to complete the job.

    by this time it was already dark (short cold winter days) and i was freezing so i called it a day. I need to order some repair wires so that i can connect up the wing mirrors to the rear view mirror so that the auto dimming feature will work. I also need to order a new mirror adjuster with the power folding button so that function will work. So i will be going back to this next week after i have all the bits to complete the install.
    Will update this thread next week when the bits turn up.
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2011
    #1
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  3. BlueSpark
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    BlueSpark 6th Gear

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    [Dec 17, 2011]
    Nice write up Itwasntme. Did you have to change the control module to accept the folding function or did you use existing one?
    #2
  4. Ash187
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    Ash187 Audi-Retrofits.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Dec 17, 2011]
    i haven't got to that part yet as i dont have the power folding switch, but im pretty sure no modules need changing, just a matter of fitting and coding?
    im sure someone will come along and correct me soon enough
    #3
  5. mikex709
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    mikex709 Member

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    [Dec 17, 2011]
    Excellent write up Ash, this is something i will definately consider doing in the new year.
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2011
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  6. nally
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    nally MPG the new BPH

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    [Dec 17, 2011]
    what you you done with the old repeaters ?
    #5
  7. Ash187
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    Ash187 Audi-Retrofits.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Dec 17, 2011]
    they are still there for the time being, but they will be taken out and the holes filled.
    #6
  8. N8
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    N8 Kowalski Details VCDS Map User

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    [Dec 17, 2011]
    Good work, do you not like the MY11s?
    #7
  9. Ash187
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    Ash187 Audi-Retrofits.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Dec 17, 2011]
    it was a bargain i found on ebay for the my09 mirrors so i just went for it. if the my11 mirrors come up at a bargain i may just switch again :)
    #8
  10. N8
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    N8 Kowalski Details VCDS Map User

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    [Dec 17, 2011]
    Ah nice one, good work, love my folding mirrrors, a really nice touch.
    #9
  11. mikex709
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    mikex709 Member

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    [Dec 17, 2011]
    What differnce between MY09 and MY11? Are they different on 3door and 5door?
    #10
  12. Ash187
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    Ash187 Audi-Retrofits.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Dec 17, 2011]
    now that i have them i will be looking into getting them to fold/unfold when i lock/unlock.
    i know nigel has done it through a relay so will contact him :)
    #11
  13. Cruiser89
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    Cruiser89 Advanced In Car Tech Site Sponsor

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    [Dec 17, 2011]
    In regards to get them folding. I think you are correct, on my A3 with folders its just a tick/untick.

    In regards to folding mirrors, I really want to get them to fold on lock/unlock so I'm willing to help with that if you need it. If its just a case of a relay then happy days.
    #12
  14. Ash187
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    Ash187 Audi-Retrofits.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Dec 17, 2011]
    well going on something i found from a thread a while back that nigel had said:
    quote was from here:http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/new-a3...-retro-fit-electric-folding-wing-mirrors.html
    #13
  15. Digzz
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    Digzz "Started From The Bottom" VCDS Map User

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    [Dec 18, 2011]
    Great write up Ash...Would love to see many more of these on ASN......Keep up the Good work. :icon_thumright:

    How Much did you pay for the folding mirrors from ebay? .....I'm thinking I want folding ones now....lol
    #14
  16. ScottD3
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    ScottD3 I want your faulty electronics Supporter

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    [Dec 18, 2011]
    Be interested to know how its done.
    #15
  17. Ash187
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    [Dec 19, 2011]
    ok so i am looking around on how the folding mirrors would work with the lock/unlock using the remote and it seems that people have used something called 'audi relay 361'
    there is a bit of wiring needed so i think Scott can help me out on this one! here is a link to some guys who are looking for various solutions on a MK2 TT and also a link to a german forum who claims to have done the mod. only problem is i am not good with German and the explanation confuses me not to mention the wiring diagram is making little sense to me.

    The Audi TT Forum :: View topic - TT MK2 Folding Mirrors on Door Lock/Open Or Engine On/Off

    Google Translate

    [​IMG]
    #16
  18. mikex709
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    mikex709 Member

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    [Dec 19, 2011]
    Great find..!! I can help with wiring, I too would be interested to know how this works. I have a few german friends at work who can help translation.
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2011
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  19. Ash187
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    Ash187 Audi-Retrofits.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Dec 19, 2011]
    thats great! i am still looking around but that diagram seems to be the best that i can find.

    i have found this bit of info but i dont know how much help it is... the second link does not seem to work

    #18
  20. Ash187
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    [Dec 19, 2011]
    just looking at this with all the info i have been searching up on and the diagram above

    so the relay plugs into the CE module relay location above the drivers side footwell. then the wires would feed from the CE area (where the relay was plugged in) to these areas...

    pin 4 would go to the fuse box for the 15a fuse
    pin 6 goes to an earth connection

    pin 5 would have 2 wires coming out of it (1 pin that splits into 2) - one going to drivers side mirror plug and the other to the passenger side mirror plug to the negative connection for the folding mirror which is pin 14 on the mirror loom.

    pin 8 would have 2 wires coming out of it (1 pin that splits into 2) - one going to drivers side mirror plug and the other to the passenger side mirror plug to the positive connection for the folding mirror which is pin 15 on the mirror loom.

    pin 14 would have 2 wires coming out of it (1 pin that splits into 2) - would go to a microswitch of some sort that is in both mirrors? it shows on the guides that this is a pin on the mirror loom but the old mirror loom had 12 pins where as our 8P ones have 16 pins. on the old mirrors it was pin 3 so i will try and find out what pin 3 was connected to and see its equivalent on our 16 pin mirrors

    pin 12 would go to the folding mirror switch on the drivers side door. the guides suggest that it goes to the negative connection on the 'Safe' wire. I think it is here there might be a need of a modification to wiring in able to activate the fold/unfold when locking/unlocking the car. i need to look into it a bit more but i think this pin connection can be wired onto the lock signal cable so that when the alarm is activated the mirror will fold, and when unlocked it will unfold again??

    for anyone with some more of an idea with wiring here are the pin locations in case you can find a better place to wire onto on the door modules

    pin outs 2004 and 2008 onwards

    Connectors, door control unit, driver side -J386

    20-pin connector (supply, lock)
    1 - Mirror dip input signal 1 (EC mirror +)
    2 - CL motor SAFE
    3 - CL feedback locked/safe
    4 - CL outside door handle
    5- Vacant
    6- Vacant
    7 - CL terminal 31
    8 - CAN - High
    9 - CAN - Low
    10 - Mirror dip input signal 2 (EC mirror -)
    11 - CL motor SAFE/lock
    12 - CL terminal 30
    13 - CL keyswitch close/open
    14- Vacant
    15 - CL door contact switch
    16 - CL motor unlock
    17- Vacant
    18 - WL enable, terminal 87 (vacant)
    19 - WL terminal 31
    20 - WL terminal 30

    16-pin connector (exterior mirrors)
    1 - Mirror status position X (only with seat memory fitted)
    2 - Mirror terminal 31, potentiometer (only with seat memory fitted)
    3 - Mirror supply, potentiometer (only with seat memory fitted)
    4 - Mirror adjustment motor Y-direction
    5 - Mirror adjustment motor X/Y-direction
    6- Vacant
    7 - Mirror heating
    8 - Mirror dip output signal 1 (EC mirror +)
    9 - Mirror status position Y (only with seat memory fitted)
    10- Vacant
    11 - Mirror terminal 31
    12 - Mirror adjustment motor X-direction
    13- Vacant
    14 - Mirror folding motor -
    15 - Mirror folding motor +
    16 - Mirror dip output signal 2 (EC mirror -)

    32-pin connector (to door trim)
    1 - BE - Exit/warning lamp
    2 - BE - Terminal 31 (2) (AWL)
    3 - BF - Window lifter button rear right
    4 - BE - Terminal 31 (1) (AWL)
    5 - CL SAFE LED
    6 - BE - Terminal 58b (1)
    7 - BF - Interior locking button (LOCK/UNLOCK)
    8 - BF - Window lifter button front right (local)
    9- Vacant
    10 - Memory button + emergency off button (only with seat memory fitted)
    11 - Memory position buttons (only with seat memory fitted)
    12 - BF - Tailgate remote release button (only in 5-door, USA)
    13 - Alarm system Off button (tilt sensor inactive)
    14 - BE - Interior door handle illumination
    15- Vacant
    16 - Status LED button for interior monitoring (deactivate interior monitoring)
    17 - Status LED button for alarm system off (deactivate tilt sensor)
    18 - CL - Inside door handle (not implemented)
    19 - BF - Mirror adjustment L/R
    20 - BF - Mirror adjustment X/Y
    21 - BF - Window lifter button rear right (local)
    22 - BE - Terminal 58b (2) (mirror adjuster switch)
    23 - BE - Terminal 58b (3) (mirror/stowage illumination)
    24 - BF - Window lifter button front left (local)
    25- Vacant
    26 - BF - Child lock
    27 - Memory supply terminal 30
    28 - BF - Button for tank lid unlock
    29 - BF - Mirror heating
    30 - Button for interior monitoring
    31 - LED - Interior locking button (LOCK)
    32 - LED - Child lock button



    Connectors, door control unit, driver side -J386
    (from model year '08)

    20-pin connector (supply, lock)
    1 - Mirror dip input signal 1 (EC mirror +)
    2 - CL motor SAFE
    3 - CL feedback locked/safe
    4 - Not used
    5 - Not used
    6 - CL terminal 31
    7 - CL door contact switch
    8 - CAN High
    9 - CAN Low
    10 - Mirror dip input signal 2 (EC mirror -)
    11 - CL SAFE LED
    12 - CL motor SAFE/lock
    13 - CL motor unlock
    14 - Not used
    15 - LIN
    16 - CL keyswitch open/close
    17 - Not used
    18 - CL terminal 30
    19 - WL terminal 31
    20 - WL terminal 30

    16-pin connector (exterior mirrors)
    1 - Not used
    2 - Not used
    3 - Not used
    4 - Mirror adjustment motor Y-direction
    5 - Mirror adjustment motor X/Y-direction
    6 - Not used
    7 - Mirror heating
    8 - Mirror dip output signal 1 (EC mirror +)
    9 - Not used
    10 - Not used
    11 - Mirror terminal 31
    12 - Mirror adjustment motor X-direction
    13 - Mirror indicator (rate action)
    14 - Mirror folding motor -
    15 - Mirror folding motor +
    16 - Mirror dip output signal 2 (EC mirror -)

    32-pin connector (to door trim)
    1 - Status LED - Interior locking button
    2 - Not used
    3 - Status LED - Child lock button
    4 - Status LED button for interior monitoring (deactivate interior monitoring)
    5 - Status LED button for alarm system off (deactivate tilt sensor)
    6 - BF - Mirror adjustment L/R
    7 - BF - Window lifter button rear right, driver
    8 - BF - Mirror adjustment X/Y
    9 - Not used
    10 - Alarm system Off button (tilt sensor inactive)
    11 - Not used
    12 - Not used
    13 - BF - Button for tank lid unlock
    14 - BF - Child lock button
    15 - BF - Window lifter button front right, driver
    16 - Not used
    17 - BE - Interior door handle illumination
    18 - BE - Door exit/warning lamp
    19 - BE - terminal 31
    20 - Not used
    21 - BF - terminal 31
    22 - Not used
    23 - BF - Window lifter button rear left, driver
    24 - BE - terminal 58b
    25 - BE - terminal 58b
    26 - BE - Switch/stowage compartment illumination
    27 - Button for interior monitoring
    28 - Not used
    29 - Not used
    30 - BF - Tailgate remote release button (only in 5-door, USA)
    31 - BF - Window lifter button front left, driver
    32 - BF - Interior locking button (LOCK/UNLOCK)
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2011
    #19
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  21. SAiLO
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    SAiLO Enthusiast VCDS Map User

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    [Dec 19, 2011]
    Result!
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  22. 1inchpunch
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    [Dec 19, 2011]
    Nice detailed DIY.

    Not a fan of the shape of these mirrors but like the repeaters and can see why you did it for the lecy folding and auto dimming. My mirrors fold on the switch but after 2 days of doing it the novelty wore off. Especially after one went floppy and refused to fold back out, I believe this is a common problem.

    Look forward to seeing you getting them folding off the fob. It's something they should do anyway and it looks like you've more or less figured it.
    #21
  23. Ash187
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    Ash187 Audi-Retrofits.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Dec 19, 2011]
    well i am trying to find a way to get the power folding to work off the remote key so when you lock the car the mirrors fold in.
    #22
  24. mikex709
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    mikex709 Member

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    [Dec 19, 2011]
    Ash, not if this modded translation helps:

    [​IMG]

    Hopefully you will know what and where these "control unit" and "connectors" cos my friend is a Chemical engineer not a mechanic and is stuck in a lab everyday :p
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2011
    #23
  25. mikex709
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    mikex709 Member

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    [Dec 19, 2011]
    Incidentally will this work with 8P2 folding mirrors or just dumbo ones?
    #24
  26. mikex709
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  27. Ash187
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    Ash187 Audi-Retrofits.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Dec 19, 2011]
    i have seen that link as i have spent most of the day looking into it. only part i am mainly stuck on is the microswitch for pin 12 and the safe wire. the safe wire i can figure out when i have the door card off again but the other wirings are not straight forward since the retrofits are all baseed on the Golf MK4 mirrors that have 12 pin connections, of which pins 1,2 and 3 are unused. no i know the audi equivalent for pin 1 and 2 as its the folding mirror + & - which is pin 14 and 15 on our mirrors. only way for me to figure out properly what pin 3 is, is to have a look on Elsa but i dont have the VW DVD for Elsa so i haven't been able to see how the MK4 was wired. that should be solved in an hour or so as i am currently downloading the VW DVD so when i install that things should become alot clearer!

    should this work then yes it will apply for both pre-facelift mirrors and facelift (dumbo) mirrors.

    i have also had confirmation that my H rev door modules do not support power folding mirrors so i am now on the search for facelift door modules... a J, M or P rev door module is what i am looking for. once i get that i will repin my door connectors to suit the facelift modules and get updated chrome window and mirror switches to suit and then complete the install, hopefully at the same time wire in the relay and get that going.
    #26
  28. mikex709
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    mikex709 Member

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    [Dec 19, 2011]
    Can i check which door module i have in mine via VCDS or do i have to pull the door card apart to get 100% confirmation?
    #27
  29. Ash187
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    Ash187 Audi-Retrofits.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Dec 19, 2011]
    vcds will show you what module you have, just go to the module and look at the label
    #28
  30. Cruiser89
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    Cruiser89 Advanced In Car Tech Site Sponsor

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    [Dec 19, 2011]
    Im guessing being a 61 plate mine should have the necessary module? I'll check on VCDS tomorrow. If so, I'm willing to be a guinea pig. Tell me what needs doing and il have a go!!
    #29
  31. Ash187
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    Ash187 Audi-Retrofits.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Dec 19, 2011]
    do you already have power folding mirrors? if you do and they are working then no need to worry about the module. i only need the module as my car never had power folding mirrors and i need to upgrade the module in order to get it working on the switch.

    if you want to try it out you will need to get you hands on some parts first.

    4A0 907 440 - Audi relay 361
    1 x 000 979 114 - repair wire
    2 x 000 979 135 - repair wire
    1x 000 979 133 - repair wire
    some extra cable to extend the wiring to the drivers and passenger side door.

    then you would need to wire it up according to the diagram above but with the new pin locations, which we haven't yet fully worked out.

    once that is all done the mirrors 'should' fold/unfold on lock/unlock
    #30
  32. mikex709
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    mikex709 Member

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    [Dec 19, 2011]
    Do you mean these modules:

    Address 42: Door Elect, Driver 8P0 959 801 H
    Address 52: Door Elect, Pass. 8P0 959 802 H

    If so, mine are H rev too :(
    #31
  33. Cruiser89
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    [Dec 19, 2011]

    Yeaa I already have power fold, but these ones go upwards rather than in (if that makes sense)

    Cool, well iv got a friend studying German at uni, so may get him to translate the diagram.

    Might be a Xmas project over the holiday!!
    #32
  34. Ash187
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    Ash187 Audi-Retrofits.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Dec 19, 2011]
    Yes same as mine unfortunately

    The diagram has already been translated and that makes sense. We know that the relay sits under the steering wheel on the CE module and that 3 wires go to the passenger side door and 4 wires to the drivers side door. Out of those 7 wires there are 3 pairs and the odd one that goes to the 'safe' wire (the safe wire is a wire in the door that picks up that the door is closed., but there are 3 different safe wires... We want the safe wire that detects when the car is locked and alarm is armed. Also there is an additional 1 wire that has a live 10a fuse connection and 1 wire that goes to the ground in the drivers footwell.
    Out of the 3 pairs, one pair goes to the positive folding wire on both mirrors. 2nd pair goes to the negative folding wire on both mirrors and the 3rd pair is meant to go to a micro switch wire on both mirrors, problem is I don't know which wire that micro switch is on as the guides we have are all for the mk4 Golf.
    I am in the process of installing the wiring diagrams on Elsa for the vw range now so hopefully I can pick out which wire pins that needs to go to...then just get the bits ordered and put all this theory into practice!
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2011
    #33
  35. FranA3
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    FranA3 events moderator Regional Rep

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    [Dec 19, 2011]
    good guide ash well done on the install mate
    #34
  36. mikex709
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    mikex709 Member

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    [Dec 19, 2011]
    Hope you get it sorted mate, Keep us posted :)
    #35
  37. Ash187
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    [Jan 7, 2012]
    ok so a little update... i ordered the new facelift door modules as mine dont support power folding mirrors. i have got the P rev door modules and will try and get them fitted on this week sometime. since i am doing it i am also going to order the facelift window switches and the mirror switch which have the chrome tip on them. i will have to re-pin all the connectors to suit the door modules. also going to order the relay and give it a go... only problem is that i need to get the car into a garage as the weather is too cold and unpredictable to do it on my drive. anyone know of a garage where they will let me do the work in around london?
    #36
  38. HSP
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    HSP 3rd Gear

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    [Jan 7, 2012]
    Hi Ash,

    I have got folding mirrors on my RS3. My mate has VCDS and has tried to get them to fold when the car is locked but has not had any joy. Do you know where in VCDS we need to go with codes?

    Thanks
    #37
  39. Digzz
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    Digzz "Started From The Bottom" VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 7, 2012]
    It can't be coded ...you have to install a relay .
    #38
  40. Ash187
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    Ash187 Audi-Retrofits.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Jan 7, 2012]
    Mate from research on our A3 (poverty cars in Audi's eyes) dont allow powerfolding on lock without the need to wiring in relays. on the bigger cars (a5, q7) they can be coded within the MMI system that they have.

    i am working on the relay solution and should be wiring them in sometime in the next couple weeks. just getting all the parts together to get this install ready
    #39
  41. Digzz
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    Digzz "Started From The Bottom" VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 7, 2012]
    If something comes to mind I'll let u know.....How long do u want to use it for ?
    #40

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