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F***ing car

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by S3featesV9, Apr 10, 2012.

  1. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Apr 11, 2012]
    Total bellends! Did you give them the rods with the bit of paper that comes with them? This piece of paper has the torque settings on it.
    #41
  2. S3featesV9
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    S3featesV9 Active Member

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    [Apr 11, 2012]
    Yeah i did? And that's all the info I needed cheers dude. Gave them the rods with pistons already fitted. And the box. Which had old rods in, the red grease and paper. I never read it so wasn't sure if it stated. And they deffo opened the box, as they used the assembly grease.
    #42
  3. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 11, 2012]
    IE rods come with ARP assembly grease and instructions (explicit ones) on how to treat the ARP bolts... should also be noted that rods should be fitted with the tang slots facing toward the front of the car (inlet)

    Assuming you handed the rods to them in the box unmolested then they shold have known that as they were aftermarket rods there may be something extra to be done and checked the paper work..

    Good luck mate...

    <tuffty/>
    #43
  4. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Apr 11, 2012]
    They dont sound like they're used to fitting modified parts! I would have expected that anyone who had fitted uprated parts before would have checked for fitting instructions. I checked Elsawin for everything OEM when building mine and then followed the IE rod instructions for the rods.
    #44
  5. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 11, 2012]
    Not exactly though ;P

    <tuffty/>
    #45
  6. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Apr 11, 2012]
    Bugger off. It doesn't specifically say to slacken off and torque 3 times :)
    #46
  7. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 11, 2012]
    #47
  8. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Apr 11, 2012]
    #48
  9. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 11, 2012]
    Will check but all the ones I have seen say to tighten to 50/55ftlbs (torque value seems to vary but I always have done them to 55ftlbs) 3 times... maybe it could be misinterpreted as try it for three clicks but tightening 3 times suggests to me they need to be loose to tighten..

    I think Bill has a set of IE rods in stock so will have a look at the weekend and maybe suggest to IE they change the wording if it can be misinterpreted...

    <tuffty/>
    #49
  10. S3featesV9
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    S3featesV9 Active Member

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    [Apr 11, 2012]
    Cheers will update tomorrow, luckily I have the day off so may spend it at the garage whilst they strip it down.

    Have decided to buy another car, a Renault Clio 182 as I expect this is going to take at least a month to be resolved, fixed and back on the road again. By which time insurance will be due. And I may sell up. I may not. All depends how I feel when I get it
    Back. Seems a waste to sell it after all this. But I don't want it as a daily any more. At least then I can work on it without HAVING to have it roadworthy for work. And the clip is more than good enough as a run about.

    Question, when they take the rods out will new bolts be required?
    #50
  11. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 11, 2012]
    ARP bolts are reusable.... in your case though.... I am not sure what the state of them will be if they have done a 90 deg after initial torque... best wait and see what they look like... if Bill has IE rods in stock and if either I remember or he reads this before the weekend then I will see about measuring the length of a bolt as a datum to see if they have over stretched them at all (dunno if this is possible on ARP but doing OEM torque procedure would have taken them over 55ftlbs at a guess)

    <tuffty/>
    #51
  12. beachbuggy
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    beachbuggy Well-Known Member

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    [Apr 11, 2012]
    I just checked the bit of paper that came with the last set of IE rods I bought and it just says torque 3 times to 55lbs, or use plastige and make sure the lube is used as well. I can see now having read it why you might possibly think torque to 55lbs and check it 3 times rather than slacking off and re-torquing 3 times.
    #52
  13. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 11, 2012]
    Thats ambiguous enough to be misinterpreted tbh... worth a mention to IE I reckon....

    That said... using the lube and check it 3 times is better than the OEM method which after a (quick) search looks to be in the region of 22ftlbs and then 90 degrees...!!

    <tuffty/>
    #53
  14. S3featesV9
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    S3featesV9 Active Member

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    [Apr 11, 2012]
    Sorry for a stupid question, just can't get my head round it. They were over torqued? If so I want new bolts just to be safe, we're can I get them from? And the red lube?
    #54
  15. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Apr 11, 2012]
    I think what Tuffty is worried about is that the bolts may have been over stretched. If torqued to 22lb then turned 90 degrees extra they were probably torqued above the 55lb they were meant to be. To be on the safe side contact IE or ARP and get some new bolts and lube :thumbsup:
    #55
  16. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 11, 2012]
    tbh mate I don't know... I am not sure how much extra torque the 90 deg turn would impart on the bolts and while my quick Google suggests 22ftlbs + 90 deg for std nuts I wouldn't like to say what the garage would have done...

    Personally I would be tempted to replace them for peace of mind... and assuming this is a feck up by the garage then they should pay for them but make sure you source them so you know whats going in there... normal bolts won't cut the mustard and after all this it wouldn't surprise me if thats what they would consider doing (naivety being an issue here...)

    Be silly for you to pay out for stuff just yet until they have admitted a degree of blame and take it from there... ARP's are technically stretch bolts but are harder and reusable... however that is assuming they have been tightened correctly... 22ftlbs + 90 may take them under 55ftlbs in which case they could be ok but tbh I wouldn't wanna take the risk all things considered...

    As for where to get them.... I don't know off hand... maybe worth giving Bill a call...

    <tuffty/>
    #56
  17. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Apr 11, 2012]
    worth checking one on torque/angle..
    my dial gauge torque gauge would show what 90' turn is in torque terms.. but I dont have a spare rod/bolt combo to try here
    #57
  18. S3featesV9
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    S3featesV9 Active Member

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    [Apr 11, 2012]
    Shall contact them tomorrow. Cheeers dude!

    How's your running in going?
    #58
  19. S3featesV9
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    S3featesV9 Active Member

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    [Apr 11, 2012]
    I shall investigate this before hand then. I'm trying to have the rods and crank taken out so I can have them inspected. But the garage are refusing to drop the gearbox until they are 100% it was their fault. As I've told them they aren't getting a penny from me. They are dropping sump tomorrow to see what damage is done though.

    All very stressful at the moment.
    #59
  20. A3 Oly
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    A3 Oly Member

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    [Apr 11, 2012]
    Keep ur chin up pal... dont let up and dont forget threats of bad publicity and trading standards etc etc..
    #60
  21. S3featesV9
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    S3featesV9 Active Member

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    [Apr 18, 2012]
    Ok so some updates. Turned out to be cylinder four that had thrown out the bearings. Last time it was two.

    The garage are 'currently' refusing to pay out. As the reason for problem isn't 100%. Well to me it is.

    Just got off the phone to APR and then IE in the USA.

    Apr bolts are designed to be torqued more than OEM spec most of the time. He then went on to ask what they were torqued too. I said 22lbs and then a 90 degree turn. He replied with well, thats got to be more then 55. He estimated about 62-68. No idea how.

    So I've ordered new bolts from IE, some assembly grease, and a copy
    Of the instructions to glue to the mechanics face when I see him.

    Should be here in a week and half. Ish.

    Cranks currently out for polishing. Not bad enough to require regrounding. Which is a bonus. Although it costing pretty much the same. The engineering place doing the work ( F J Paynes) are charging the garage. As they understand I'm not spending a penny.

    Invoice for bolts will be given to the garage.

    Been in contact with the CAB and trading standards. Neither can do anything until car is fixed. Then costs will be resolved. So even if car is fixed in two weeks. I may be waiting a while longer!!! Arghhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!
    #61
  22. s3 Hoggy
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    s3 Hoggy Whats going on???

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    [Apr 18, 2012]
    Nightmare pal! Well my dad had a fair bit of work on his A4 planned for there and I've shown him how useless they have been with your car and he's decided against it now. Realy sorry to hear what they are putting you through bud! bunch of C****!
    #62
  23. AudiS3-Turbo
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    AudiS3-Turbo Member

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    [Apr 18, 2012]
    Why you replacing arp bolts ? You can reuse them ..
    #63
  24. S3featesV9
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    S3featesV9 Active Member

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    [Apr 18, 2012]
    Because there is a fair chance they've been stretched. And it's for piece of mind. After the trouble I've been through, you'd be doing the same bud :).
    #64
  25. S3featesV9
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    S3featesV9 Active Member

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    [Apr 18, 2012]
    Well tbh, up until now they've been spot on. They just followed Audi repair instructions and not the IE torque settings. Which yeah was there fault for not reading it. It's how **** there communication is, how blunt they are now they've done a **** up. They dot wanna know. And aren't repaired to fix what they cocked up free of charge.

    I recommend for servicing. Anything other than basics is a no no. Plus there courtesy cars are heaps of junk! Lol.
    #65
  26. sportquattro
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    sportquattro Active Member

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    [Apr 18, 2012]
    Trading standards could be worth a call, they (the garage) have a obligation to do work of merchantable quality and clearly failed to do the job correctly,.
    #66
  27. S3featesV9
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    S3featesV9 Active Member

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    [Apr 18, 2012]
    Yeah I've been reading through it all. Called them too. They can only deal with it once car is fixed. To sort cost out etc.

    There (garage) argument is they did carry out work to correct standard. It was my error in providing 'after market' products.
    #67
  28. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid Supporter

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    [Apr 18, 2012]
    How the hell can they say its not their fault? there hands were the last thing on the bloody thing .... and the crank was reground before, They are probably just sick of it and trying to save face...
    They should not only be unreservedly apologizing but bending over backwards to get it resolved...IMO
    3rd time lucky?....
    #68
  29. S3featesV9
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    S3featesV9 Active Member

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    [Apr 18, 2012]
    Yeah 3rd time lucky and the last time. I'm actually going to be there and watch them torque the bolts. Correctly.
    #69
  30. s3 Hoggy
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    s3 Hoggy Whats going on???

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    [Apr 18, 2012]
    Lol! When I dropped my car off to have a little work done there a few years ago (didn't have time to get to APS as usual) I was just leaving as another customer walked in and dropped her keys off. The lady asked if someone from the garage could drop her home... The manager then tells some scruffy young lad to take her home to which he asks "what car shall I take?" the manager says take the S3!!! I could't believe it! was so glad I was there! I told the manager nobody drives my car! only me! He looked at me as if I had two heads! I then went and took the mileage and told him not to let anyone drive it. He said it was the norm to just use customers cars to give other customers a courtesy lift home... cheeky gits!
    #70
  31. S3featesV9
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    S3featesV9 Active Member

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    [Apr 18, 2012]
    Noooooo way!!! Was that when they fitted the crappy stat to your car?
    #71
  32. s3 Hoggy
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    s3 Hoggy Whats going on???

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    [Apr 18, 2012]
    Yes way!!! Yep that was then mate!
    #72
  33. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid Supporter

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    [Apr 18, 2012]
    That is unbelievable..... :faint:
    #73
  34. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Apr 18, 2012]
    Name and shame I think.
    #74
  35. S3featesV9
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    S3featesV9 Active Member

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    [Apr 18, 2012]
    Once my car is back with me I will unleash names.

    Luckily there aren't many ASN members in Oxford that could stumble upon this garage. Just us two, and have both been there lol.

    Joys!!
    #75
  36. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Apr 18, 2012]
    Yeah fair play mate. I hope you get it sorted soon.
    #76
  37. Sam_
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    Sam_ Down under

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    [Apr 18, 2012]
    Blimey. Sounds like a place to avoid thats for sure. I generally hate garages. It's hard to find one that does a good job and doesn't charge a complete arm and a leg or take years to get a small bit of work done. Hence I taught myself and then got qualified. Must have saved me a packet. Finding the time and space is the issue these days though...

    Hope you get it sorted and they cover costs, as they should do. Cowboys.
    #77
  38. S3featesV9
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    S3featesV9 Active Member

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    [Apr 19, 2012]
    Just spoke to them again. Turns out parts aren't out of the car yet. Weird as I'm sure he told me they were already out. Now magically there not.

    Going there after work. Show them my angry face! Haha. I am a qualified mechanic. But that was 5 yrs ago. Since then I've stopped and become a vehicle electrician. So lost my touch so to speak. And I only have drive way with ramps/stands etc
    #78
  39. S3featesV9
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    S3featesV9 Active Member

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    [Apr 23, 2012]
    Ok so finally got round to picking up the crank, bearings and rods from the garage to take to machining place.

    Pictures show the level of damage...
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Will here within the next few days weather it's a new crank or not. And if I need to replace the one rod.

    Other three are fine, caught it just in time. Bearings were just starting to show copper colour, meaning the end of the bearing.

    New bolts from IE should arrive Thursday or Friday. Then it's a case of reassembling using the correct torques and it'll be sorted.

    Just had these turn up today, shame I cant fit them :((
    [​IMG]
    #79
  40. s3dave
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    s3dave TFSI Hybrid Supporter

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    [Apr 23, 2012]
    Had they been over-tightened then?...
    #80

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