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Ex type R owners

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by OllieH, Dec 31, 2009.

  1. OllieH
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    OllieH Member

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    [Dec 31, 2009]
    Posted this in the welcome section but thought I'd probably get a more specific answer here.

    Just wondering if any ex type r owners on here could shed some light on how they find the S3 compared to their R.

    My last car was a DC5 Integra Type R, heavily modded with stage 2 Rotrex supercharger and I used to love that. It was a track biased car though which was difficult to drive daily, which is one of the reasons I want an all rounder like the S3.

    Thanks in advance.
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  3. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Jan 1, 2010]
    I went from a UK spec 1999 DC2 to 2001 S3 after writing the DC2 off...
    The S3 is easier to drive in everyday life, lazier, less effort.
    But, dull as hell when you want to really push on...exactly where the ITR shone.

    S3 was probably quicker point to point when at 80% or less...but I still argue a well driven DC2 will murder an S3 down a back road, wet or dry.
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  4. OllieH
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    OllieH Member

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    [Jan 1, 2010]
    I can see your point. I had a DC2 before the 5, and loved it. Thinking about it, I probably liked that more than my modded DC5. Had a few tail out lift off oversteer moments in the DC2 on some backroads. Was great fun.:racer:
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  5. ianysm
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    ianysm Active Member

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    [Jan 1, 2010]
    Ex CTR owner here. Not as polished in the handling department as the ITR's but still more chuckable than the S3. Though, i find the remapped S3 far quicker point to point than my std CTR was and much nicer to live with. Not to mentioned traction when the weather gets bad and the roads get uneven.

    Its a good everyday car but not an out and out drivers car IMO. A good allrounder
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  6. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Jan 1, 2010]
    The DC2 was so well balanced, power, weight and handling wise...but you had to drive it hard.

    Oversteer cost me mine...back came round on me, spun into a verge than flipped it clean over.
    What a car though...great whilst it lasted...but, sadly, always destined to come to an unsavoury end by virtue of the way you had to drive it! :respekt:
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  7. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Jan 1, 2010]
    I honestly don't believe that a standard bar re-map S3 would be any quicker point to point...
    But an S3 with the suspension sorted would be.
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  8. FazS3
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    FazS3 Member

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    [Jan 1, 2010]
    I have a EP3!

    Have to say they are very very good cars! Will eat a standard S3 ;) even give a remapped one a tough time.

    BUT, the S3 feels better to be inside, alot more creature comforts and the car feels alot more planted, probably due to it being a heavier car.

    CTR does have issues laying its power down in wet conditions, but when dry it is an awesome car to drive and the VTEC noise (mine has an induction kit) is amazing!
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  9. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jan 1, 2010]
    Not owned a CTR, but I've driven both back to back along the same bit of road. CTR, whilst doesn't have the torque of the S3, if you use the revs/VTEC, it still shifts, last few of the rev range is particularly satisyfing, if you have the road to use it. Gear change is very slick in CTR, and everything feels alive in it, from the engine, suspension to gearbox, but it can get tiresome in the long run.
    S3 is torquey once you get past the dead first bit of the rev range(it's a 1.8 remember) and the turbo is alive. Very refined, sure footed, gearshift is a bit more clonky... the car just revs to the red line with no drama, and the car picks up nicely. Steering is heavier, but offers no more feedback, leather recaro's are nice, but don't support the same as the CTR items, but you can tell it's built to a high standard with the refinement to match.

    But would I swop my S3 for a CTR? For a day or a weekend maybe, but I would always prefer to own the S3 for it's all round ability.

    CTR is a great hatchback, but it's not as a track orientated as DC2/DC5(I've driven both of these also), but Honda have made a good profit with the Type R franchise, despite leaving all the hardcore Type R's in Japan(EK9/DC2/DC5/FD2) and leaving us Europeans with watered down versions(EP3/FN2).
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  10. S3 Paul
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    S3 Paul Well-Known Member Regional Rep

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    [Jan 1, 2010]
    Ive not owned a type R but ive driven and raced against a few over the last 3 years.
    When i first got in a civic type r the owner realy knew how to use the vtec and i got out thinking... My god i could never drive a car i own that hard ,
    "But its what they love " he told me and after driving one hard i can tell he was right. Not a car i could have lived with every day but if the driver knows what he is doing... it will be alot more hard work than you expected to shift one off your bumper !
    The feel of the dash and overall interia didnt seem to compare to the S3 either but they are built to be drivers cars and light, unlike my lard ass S3
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  11. quattro rob
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    quattro rob Member

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    [Jan 1, 2010]
    ive driven a ep3 with a jackson racing charger running 314 bhp, got to say it fun to drive makes a ace noise but is really hard work and you have to drive it hard to use the power but my friend who has own it from new knows how to drive it and will give any car a hard time, he's eaten rs8's new focus rs, m3, m5, really nice machine even as standard form but i think they just getting a bit to common now days, that was 1 of the reason i went vag and not jap
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  12. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Jan 1, 2010]
    The trouble with everything after the DC2 was that they became diluted by additional **** that added weight and dulled the chassis.

    The EK9 CTR and DC2 ITR were pure, stripped down, honed chassis, proper driving tools...the rest (to some degree the DC5 ITR) are badge engineered mass-market models.

    The 'pure' Type-Rs need a decent skill level and solid brass balls to get the best out of...the latter cars with electric everything, Sat Nav, fancy hi-fis etc aren't playing the same game.

    The EK9 CTR/DC2 ITR weren't about big power...they were about matching chassis and power to perfection...as they got heavier, they got less sharp, needed more power to make up for the weight, meaning bigger brakes and wheels (even less sharp) and Honda dropped the ball.
    DC2/EK9 TRs were road legal track cars...
    The rest, have been track-day competant road cars...in my mind.

    I still reckon the DC2 was near perfect...
    The EK9 was even more raw...but the shorter wheelbase made it fractionally slower in the hands of mere mortals than the DC2.

    Again, only my view...but with the exception of DC2/EK9 and probably the DC5, the rest are just good hot Hatches...not proper Type-Rs.
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  13. OllieH
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    OllieH Member

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    [Jan 1, 2010]
    Yeh, the reason I charged mine was because I wanted more midrange power, as you do have to keep the revs on boil on the standard type r. With the Rotrex and charge cooler it was making 330 BHP and 220 lbft. This was at about 6-7k revs though so you still had to rev it, but not as bad. Mine was purely track focused though and was difficult to drive on normal roads, with the front wheels needing a completely flat (and dry) surface to get the power down.

    I'm hoping with a few suspension, brake and engine mods the S3 can still be a chuckable, fun car to drive like the R was, but more refined for everyday driving.

    Here's a couple of pics of the DC5

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
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  14. OllieH
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    OllieH Member

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    [Jan 1, 2010]
    Completely agree with you there. I regretted selling the DC2 and getting the 5, and if I hadn't of gone so far with the mods I would of sold up and bought another one.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 1, 2010
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  15. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 1, 2010]
    mmmm i love the design of this car soooo much, keep following one o the way to work.... shame its a one trick pony, i absolutely love the styling but how could they get the interior so wrong.......
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  16. S3EDDIE
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    S3EDDIE Member

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    [Jan 2, 2010]
    I had a DC2 and loved it. Ended up having company cars while I owned it so last year I didn't use it much at all, was lucky enough to have a 231 RX8 for a company car which drove lovely but was slow in my opinion so the Teg wasn't getting used and I got good money for it (only lost 2k in 4 years of owning it)

    DC2 compared to the S3 is completely different, DC2 is better set up for track and smooth roads but in real driving conditions the S3 wins hands down.
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  17. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 2, 2010]
    well for the above info, i had a play with a new CTR last night with the big wheel upgrade...... took him off first roundabout, pulled a length in front and couldnt lose him after that!! shows that if someone knows how to drive an R ;)

    only chance i had was coming off another roundabout ensuring i hit the boost right, then my traction control kicked in...gutted :(

    that said he started tailing off a little up a slight incline

    all in all im very impressed with their pace knowing that the new CTR is slower!!
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  18. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Jan 2, 2010]
    That'll teach you not to turn off the ESP!
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  19. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 2, 2010]
    i did used to but the car slides out on the back end on certain roundabouts near me at slow speeds..... the ESP seems to aid it not happening so i only turn it off when i need to now :)
    #18
  20. Biggied
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    Biggied They called him mellow yellow.

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    [Jan 2, 2010]
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NKtw2hd-Zc

    Check this video out for a bit of BMI TypeR vs S3 action.

    I had an Ep3 premier TypeR before my S3, didn't think I missed it that much until I went out in my mates DC2, I now remember how much fun it was reving the tits off a Vtec engine, if your into that kinda driving the S3 won't come close. With the quattro & turbo engine the S3 is a differant animal & has other things going for it (traction & torque) but given the choice of which car to take down a B road on a hot summers day it would be the Honda every time for me.

    Also have to agree with Ess, a well driven DC2 would show a an 8L S3 a clean pair of heals down a B road or track.

    Ewan.
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  21. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Jan 2, 2010]
    How much quieter is the s3 compared to the hondas in that clip haha
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  22. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jan 2, 2010]
    Just for your information, the White CTR(EP3) is Jap spec, and would be running the 225BHP K20A lump from a DC5 and LSD as standard.
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  23. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 2, 2010]
    ooooh S3 got spanked in the wet :)
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  24. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jan 2, 2010]
    Of course we are all driving around racetracks daily aren't we. 90% of the time it's A to B, and that's what the S3 is good for... in comfort, in rain, snow or sun. :) Plus it pulled away nicely didn't it?<from a standing start> :racer:
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  25. OllieH
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    OllieH Member

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    [Jan 2, 2010]
    Seen that vid before on the DC5 forum which was obviously a hit. I'm assuming all cars in it are standard (can't speak Japanese :confused:), so a remapped S3 with some suspension tweaks and maybe uprated brakes should put up a much better fight. Even so, the S3 driver lasted quite well, but then seemed to drop off ??
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  26. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    [Jan 3, 2010]
    that's because it was a fix :whistle2:
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  27. MintyS3
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    MintyS3 Works 60% the time, Everytime.

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    [Jan 3, 2010]
    Brakes were probably humped lol
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  28. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 3, 2010]
    i was thinking heat soak, brakes..... but yeah i get ya Joe..... comfort is what its all about at our age :)
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  29. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jan 3, 2010]
    The S3 dropped off in the end, cos the driver got bored. lol
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  30. Scraggy87
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    Scraggy87 S3 MaD mAn

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    [Jan 3, 2010]
    My mate owns at CTR and i must admit it is a nice car! Like the racing seats but apart from that i'm not to keen on the interior looks. And tbh it doesn't feel as fast as my S3!
    #29

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