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Engine turns but won't fire - post oil pump change

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by nathpeach, Nov 17, 2012.

  1. nathpeach
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    nathpeach New Member

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    [Nov 17, 2012]
    Hi guys, wonder if anyone can help me out a bit

    Just bought an S3 only to have the oil pump fail within a week. I foolishly drove the car about 300m after the oil pressure light came on to get it to a nearby garage. The engine sounded tappety and clearly wasn't behaving.

    Garage (Ford) weren't keen to look at it so i towed it home and took off the sump to find that the oil pump chain had come off the oil pump sprocket - turns out the metal ring of the baffle had got wedged between the two and bent the sprocket. The chain had clearly been running despite this and had mashed up the pump somewhat.

    Worried about having siezed the engine i tried to turn it by hand using the crank pulley - i managed to turn it half a cycle but it was tight.

    I replaced the oil pump, pick up oil filter and oil and sealed it all up totay hoping that would be the end of it - but when i went to turn it over it the following happened...

    First attempt sounded normal just didn't fire the engine - all good i thought

    Secont attempt and i heard a pop noise and saw smoke coming from the top of the block, went to look ant it looked like it was coming from the coil and there was a smell of burnt oil.

    Engine now turns over too easily and doen't sound right - like there's no compression and it won't fire.

    I'm out of ideas - can anyone shed any light on what might have happened??
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  3. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Nov 17, 2012]
    siezed cam and now a snapped/stripped belt ?
    #2
  4. Lewis583
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    Lewis583 Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Nov 18, 2012]
    Whip the top cambelt cover off and check the belt. Sounds, as Byzan stated, the belt could have failed.

    If the belt is good, next step is to remove cam cover and check condition of the valve gear (camshafts, cam chain etc).
    #3
  5. phil miller
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    phil miller Member

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    [Nov 18, 2012]
    as above you will prob find the inlet cam has siezed and that has broken the woodruff key on the cam, cranks spinning cams not, bent valves= big bill

    last one we done at work was £1500
    #4
  6. nathpeach
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    nathpeach New Member

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    [Nov 18, 2012]
    Took a look at the belt - all looks good in there. i had feared valve damage.

    I'm no mechanic but am reasonably pratical and keen to do what i can myself (look where that gor me!) Is there anything i can do? How easy is it to take the head off and have a look? And if i do is there anything worthwhile i can do when i get inside?

    Phil - Is work an Audi garage or an independant?

    Gutted about the car - I love it / loved it - but if £1500 is a reasonable bill is it worth the money on a 2000 S3 - its in reasonable shape - or was before this!
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  7. Lewis583
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    Lewis583 Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Nov 18, 2012]
    Next step is to, if you are confident enough, remove the cam cover and inspect valve gear.

    Remove cambelt top cover.
    Remove all 4 coil packs.
    Remove/push to the side any pipes that may be covering the cam cover.
    Remove PVC pipe on passenger side of cam cover.
    The cam cover is then held on by 10mm nuts. iirc there is approx 8 around the outside of the cover and a couple inbetween where the coil packs sat.

    Once the cover is off you will need someone to attempt to start the engine whilst you watch the cam gear to ensure both camshafts are turning with the timing belt. When you get someone to attempt to start the engine, have them do it in short intervals otherwise you may get covered with oil lol

    Having just re-read your original post, while the coils are off, make sure all spark plugs are tight.
    #6
  8. jojo
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    jojo S3 Drift King! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Nov 18, 2012]
    If the potential bill is £1500, you are better off just looking for a second hand engine and doing a straight swop over in my opinion. Depends on if you intend to keep the car etc.?
    #7
  9. phil miller
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    phil miller Member

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    [Nov 18, 2012]
    Indy mate, best way imho (dealers are all about figures, indys are all about there customers)

    fitting another engine is a good way to go, and tbh is cheaper, but then how can you be sure what your buying? if you do have bent valves and take the head off, rebuild it you will then know you have a strong engine

    but then the only person who knows the answer is you
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  10. firestorm
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    firestorm Member

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    [Nov 19, 2012]
    Sorry to hear about your predicament, there's a guy on here breaking a perfectly good S3 based in Walsall, he is waiting for someone to buy the engine before he sells the rest of the car so that it can be driven first. Check out the classifieds.
    Best of luck
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  11. nathpeach
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    nathpeach New Member

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    [Nov 19, 2012]
    Thanks for all your help so far.

    I phoned a local audi specialist today to see if they would take the car in to have a look and quote for the work done. Kenny's in Inverness (highly recomended by this forum)

    He told me because i'd had a go at it myself he wasn't interested - Is that a normal response? I was a bit shocked really and never got round to asking why. Anyway its left me a bit high and dry - He was my last hope really - anyone know any other good audi specialists in the area that would be willing to help out?

    With a response like that i'm now reluctant to take the head off and do anything else myself. Gutted!
    #10
  12. phil miller
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    phil miller Member

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    [Nov 19, 2012]

    Tbh i can understand why they wouldnt take the job on, they dont have a clue whats happened and they prob dont want the hassel, i take it your in inverness? if you could get the car to me in Devon (i know bloody miles away) i will fix it for you mate
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  13. vfr800
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    vfr800 Active Member

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    [Nov 20, 2012]
    That's a crappy response, my garage would be quite happy to come collect my car and fix it if I broke it.

    If the car's a non runner and you're up sh*t creek without a paddle it can't hurt to whip the rocker cover and/or head off and take a look?
    #12
  14. nathpeach
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    nathpeach New Member

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    [Nov 24, 2012]
    Phil - Thanks for the offer - but bloody miles away is true!

    Phoned the guy again today and explaqined the situation again - seems Kenny's is the only decent VW / Audi specialist for a long way! He has agreed to take a look so planing on getting the car up to him on Monday.

    Really appreciate all the positive messages and sympathies - makes all the difference when you car won't work!

    I'll let you know how it pans out and what the daage is
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  15. nathpeach
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    nathpeach New Member

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    [Nov 26, 2012]
    So it went into the garage this morning - just had a phone call to say the timing belt was 12 teeth out! so of course that means bent valves and the rest!

    I'm assuming that happened when the oil pump chain got caught in the bent pump sprocket - jammed and forced the timing belt to jump?

    What ever caused it it looks like its going to be a big bill!
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  16. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Nov 26, 2012]
    OUCH, Hopefully your turbo is still ok, then its either a replacement used head and / or shells. Or a set of new valves and skim etc. Id have said IRO 1k to have her back on the road
    #15
  17. nathpeach
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    nathpeach New Member

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    [Dec 5, 2012]
    So to update you all- hear back from the garage today with a quote of £1200-1500 plus VAT for the following:-

    complete set of new valves
    recondition of engine
    timing belt
    water pump

    Does that spun reasonable? They recon the turbo is ok but say they won't know for sure until the engine goes back in. I guess at the end of it I'll have a good engine, but I'll have nearly paid for the car again doing it!
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  18. phil miller
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    phil miller Member

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    [Dec 5, 2012]
    The BAM i rebuilt at work came to £1557 iirc and that had

    headset and bolts
    Belt kit (customer refused to have a pump)
    new hyd tappets
    4 new valves
    Head rebuild
    oil filter, oil and anti-freeze
    oil pick up pipe
    and a thermostat

    I would have thought it will just be the head that they rebuild rather than the complete engine, £1200/1500 inc vat is a good price IMHO
    #17
  19. Lewis583
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    Lewis583 Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Dec 5, 2012]
    That include labour?

    You could get another engine for less than half that. Though you would be buying an unknown engine.
    #18
  20. Lewis583
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    Lewis583 Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Dec 5, 2012]
    My post was aimed at the OP, to avoid any confusion lol. Too slow at posting on my phone
    #19
  21. nathpeach
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    nathpeach New Member

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    [Dec 9, 2012]
    That includes labour and all the work done so far to investigate. I'm aware I could get a recondition cheaper elsewhere but not from someone I can trust. Also another engine is another unknown and then also hassle with dvla. I figure after this I get a sound engine cheaper than a new car!
    #20

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