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engine swap.... 3.2v6 into the a3 / s3?

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by jediknight, May 11, 2005.

  1. jediknight

    jediknight Member

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    was driving to work this morning and was following a corrado vr6...the sounds it makes is awesome...wish i still had mine. the s3 in comparison sounds like an electric tin opener and not a very powerful one at that!!

    so im thinking of a new project casue i dont really want to do too much to my current s3 and ruin it.

    thinking of getting a cheapish a3 and fitting a 3.2 v6 from the r32. anyone had any experience of this.??

    its in the golf and the TT so in therory it should be pretty easy!!

    thanks for any comments
     
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  3. RichA3Turbo

    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you!
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    [ QUOTE ]
    was driving to work this morning and was following a corrado vr6...the sounds it makes is awesome...wish i still had mine. the s3 in comparison sounds like an electric tin opener and not a very powerful one at that!!

    so im thinking of a new project casue i dont really want to do too much to my current s3 and ruin it.

    thinking of getting a cheapish a3 and fitting a 3.2 v6 from the r32. anyone had any experience of this.??

    its in the golf and the TT so in therory it should be pretty easy!!

    thanks for any comments

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Dude you not the only one looking VR6 conversions... Im well into it after the weekend!

    Yes, it would be easy enough. It would be a straight swap... and not a paricularly hard one at that as all the engine mounts, torque dampers .etc are the same. Would be an interesting project. R32 engine wont be cheap... a 2.8VR6 24v (from a Mk4)would be cheaper and you could play about with cams, head work .etc to make the most of it

    RIch
     
  4. jediknight

    jediknight Member

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    im thinking along the forced induction route aswell so i guess the 2.8 would be fine... i would love a proper project car / track car.
     
  5. RichA3Turbo

    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you!
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    [ QUOTE ]
    im thinking along the forced induction route aswell so i guess the 2.8 would be fine... i would love a proper project car / track car.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Nice one! ATP do a manifold for garrett turbos.... Could whack a GT30R on it and get roughly 600bhp from it (with EVERYTHING uprated). that maybe too extreme but you see what im saying /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
     
  6. jediknight

    jediknight Member

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    what do you think about having 4wd or not?? do the non quattro a3's still have the floorpan space for the haldex stuff to be retro fitted or would i need to get a TQ to start with?
     
  7. RichA3Turbo

    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you!
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    [ QUOTE ]
    what do you think about having 4wd or not?? do the non quattro a3's still have the floorpan space for the haldex stuff to be retro fitted or would i need to get a TQ to start with?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    You can retro fit haldex (or even something better). You would need to cut the spare wheel well out and weld in flat sheet metal to give the space but thats about an hours job. Obviously starting off with quattro would make it easier but depends on the cost of the base car.

    Rich
     
  8. robthehungrymonkey

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    Wow, sounds like the begining of another Audi-sport soap opera, addictive viewing!
    Rich, you can't seriously be considering taking your engine out, after all that work so recently!
     
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  9. RichA3Turbo

    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you!
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    [ QUOTE ]
    Wow, sounds like the begining of another Audi-sport soap opera, addictive viewing!
    Rich, you can't seriously be considering taking your engine out, after all that work so recently!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Im not talking about in my current car /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
     
  10. dummi

    dummi smoking a6

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    wohoo essential viewing i'm watching this space :beeeeeer

    the 3.2 biturbo should be a torquey one, keep up to date thread on this
     
  11. robthehungrymonkey

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    [ QUOTE ]

    Im not talking about in my current car /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Thank god for that! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/10_1_114.gif
     
  12. RichA3Turbo

    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you!
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    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]

    Im not talking about in my current car /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Thank god for that! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/10_1_114.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Lol /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  13. nervus

    nervus Well-Known Member

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  14. RichA3Turbo

    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you!
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    I dont envy the bloke with the electrical side of things. Would be a nightmare with such a new engine! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
     
  15. HTC

    HTC Active Member

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    Paul Horrocks is a living legend when it comes to all things VW. I've been following his cars for years via the forums and magazines.

    There's nothing that bloke can do so it seems.

    The car started out as a 8v corrado, which he put a VR6 lump in, which he then blew up due to a small oil leak (he admits that he should have checked it).

    Anyhow, rather than give up as some people might, he decided to chuck a 300BHP modded R32 lump in and make it 4WD while he was at it.
    Its going to be turbo charged later in the year too!

    Proper respect to this nutter as all the work is done in his little garage next to his house!!
    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ok.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ok.gif
     
  16. latinmike

    latinmike New Member

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    Hi all, just registered myself here as i heard good things about the comunity :) im looking for any help and tips to do a 2.8 v6 24v (going the turbo route too) on my s3, ive been gathering some info and it seems easy enough by what i read so far..

    Will any ancilaries, gearbox, etc from the 1.8t work on the 2.8?
    As the s3 is a quattro, does the engine and gearbox have to come from a 4motion?

    At the moment im running about 275 bhp which im happy with, but the sound of a turbo v6 is just better idea to me.. to start with i might even use the ko4 to get all set up and running and probably upgrade the turbo in the future.

    It is the first time ill be doing this sort of thing, sorry if i sound like an amator compared to a lot of experienced people on here.

    Any help and advice is welcome :)
     
  17. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
    Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    Mechanically its fairly straight forward but the ECU etc won't be... the S3 ECU won't work with the VR motor...

    It would be better to try and swap the R32 engine in tbh... then you can use R32 ECU, wiring etc and code it up properly to the clocks... the VR engine is a generation too old to be straight forward... I also assume you plan to use it normally aspirated?... the VR lump won't have the go the 1.8t has...

    Only other way would be to go standalone but then you loose all sorts of stuff including the haldex control so you would have to use a standalone controller...

    If you are set on a V6 then use the 3.2 from a TT or R32... it will be less painful in the long run as these engines are already in Mk4 chassis cars...

    <tuffty/>
     
  18. BENJAMIN

    BENJAMIN Active Member

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    Think he's talking about the mk4 4mo lump dude. Vr's were 12v, he's talking about the 2.8 24v 4motion engine, basically a smaller capacity r32 engine.
     
  19. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
    Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    Ah of course... 6 pots are not really my area of expertise :D

    As soon as he mentioned VR I was in Mk3 mode :)

    <tuffty/>
     
  20. latinmike

    latinmike New Member

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    Thanks for ur quick replies.. yes, is the v6 24v from the mk4 and yes i plan on bolting a turbo on that to :).. so back to my original post, does the engine has to be the 4motion? Will my ecu work on that "re-coded" ? Or even the gearbox from my 1.8t lump?

    Regarding the turbo, i will start with the ko4 from the s3, i already have a custom 3" down pipe and there t3 tturbo maanifolds of the shelf in a few places, and basically everything i can use from the 1.8t aswell, hence the question about the ancilaries as most engines for sale come bare..

    Thanks again guys, keep the info coming :)
     
  21. Big Al

    Big Al A4 B7 bits for sale!!

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    Hi Mike if you need any S3 8L 1.8t parts, I've broken my complete car so lots available, Alistair

    Audi S3 8L facelift breaking spares Recaro seats BAM engine TT Quattro Golf Mk4 | eBay
     
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  23. latinmike

    latinmike New Member

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    Thanks big al, nothing at the mo but i will let u know if i do :)
     
  24. Sam_

    Sam_ Down under

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    k04 will be too small for a 2.8 ! Maybe 2 of them...
     
  25. JimS3

    JimS3 Active Member

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    Aren't you breaking the golden rule here:

    'never build a car you can buy' ?

    Why not pick up a cheap golf 4motion and turbo that?
    It's the same car underneath and IMHO has a nicer interior too.

    Theres a guy local to me who has a twin turbo R32, that thing is so rapid, makes my S3 look like its standing still!
     
  26. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
    Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    Info will be limited as its not the sort of route people go down on here... sandip is the only person I know here to have put an R32 engine into an S3 but that was done by PSI Tuning? (I think)

    You would need the engine loom from the 4mo, R32 is ME7 but I think its the 7.1.1 version? (Bill may be able to confirm that)... I suspect you will need to use the 4mo or an R32 ECU tbh... I have a feeling that the 4mo/R32 is a 1mb narrow band ECU... your S3 ECU is either a 512kb narrowband or 1mb wideband so won't be compatible either way... this would need verifying of course...

    Pretty sure the gearboxes are different too so you would need the 4mo or an R32 box...

    <tuffty/>
     
  27. AWDMk1

    AWDMk1 Member

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    I can confirm the gearboxes are definitely different, the gearbox bolts to the 6 cyliner engine at a different angle. I learned the hard way after I inadvertently bought a R32 box for my Mk1 golf project and had to promptly sell it after realising it would fit!

    The rear diffs are the same though obviously so it's just a 2.8V6 4Motion or R32 'box that is needed for a six cylinder 4wd setup.
     
  28. latinmike

    latinmike New Member

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    Well, im defo appreciate for the helpful info so far :)

    The gearbox issue is defo sorted, i will have to buy the lump and box together which makes hardly any difference as once im done i will be selling the 1.8t to get some dollar bk.. ecu and wiring loom are also cheap to pick up and it makes sense to do so, might even be lucky enough to get them together with the engine..

    Regarding jims3's post, the r32 is just as nice as the s3 interior but the standard 4motion is not really something i would put b4 my s3, rules are meant to be broken sometimes :)

    Sam suggested bolting 2 ko4 as only one would be too small, i quite like that idea and as it happens i know a local guy thats just upgraded his tubo to a hybrid one and is got the ko4 kicking about in his garage... there is also a twin turbo manifold available in the states if i decided to go that way.
     
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  29. JUS3IN

    JUS3IN polishing a silver turd

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    great thread, i love the vr6 sound had two a mk3 and a mk1 golf... be really special if it all comes together... could always use a proper nos setup on such a big lump!-) r32's remap to 270 then a 100 shot of nos on a prgressive controller would make a weapon and none of the turbo ball ache to go with it... good work
     
  30. Sandip

    Sandip Well-Known Member

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    You'll need :

    3.2 V6 out of either a TT or R32, mines out of a MK4 R32, engine code BFH
    Gearbox, the bell housing is different to the 1.8T box
    Full loom, no cuts
    R32 ECU
    Driver side engine mount
    Downpipes and Cats unless you decat like me

    I've put the larger DSG MAF and Airbox with a cold air feed

    1044344_630814493605118_1412283085_n.jpg

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=579500108736557&l=2786375139337453791
     
  31. latinmike

    latinmike New Member

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    Sandip!! I already heard about ya here :) thanks for the post it cleared a few question i was gonna ask on here.. ive actually started the hunt for the lump today, im going for the 2.8 24v 4 motion and bolting a turbo on that, still gathering info about the turbo conversion on that engine but shouldnt be long b4 im getting the 1.8t out..

    Cant wait tbh :)
     
  32. latinmike

    latinmike New Member

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    Hey guys :) after a lot of researching i have finally got the 2.8 v6 24v engine out of a golf mk4 4motion undamaged, the guy was breaking it cause he couldnt afford to run it anymore,complete engine with all ancilaries and FSH, gearbox with transfer box and drive shafts, ecu and full loom all in for less than £700, which i think was a good price :)

    I have decided to go twin on that with a couple of k04's, i was told that only 1 would be small for that engine, im gonna be using 1 from my s3 lump aswell as the injectors (2 more ordered and on their way) and a friend of mine is providing its twin as hes just upgraded his to a hybrid as well as a 4bar FPR, both turbos are in good condition, i reckon/hope ill be able to get close to what a b5 s4 produces as is roughly the same size engine and if im not mistaking it uses ko3's.. rs4 are ko4' but different spec to what im gonna be using.

    What sort of power should i spect from a setup like that.. any ideas? Any advice?

    Cheers :)
     
  33. superkarl

    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    you Need to get on vortex because turbo VRs are the norm over the pond.
    Im unsure anyone has bothered with a twin turbo one, nevermind using ko4-02X turbos.
    No one could give you pointers on it really other than you best be good, or find a good fabricator, and a good mapper.
    Power wise who knows, surely 500hp is doable with TT and the right supporting mods, complete wild guess.

    Prepare to part with some serious paper my friend ££££
     
  34. latinmike

    latinmike New Member

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    I think i will take up on suggestion, most of the info ive got was from vw forums and there are at least two of them with ko4 but nothing about figures.. tbh my goal is to top my current figures on the 1.8t with a 6 cyl growl a little kick of the turbos and most of all a good oem look ill be happy :)

    As for the fabricator, one of my buddys is a profesional welder and we are gonna be doing most of the pipe work ourselves which is gonna save me a lot of money, the remmap im aware is gonna be a custom one but im from peterborough and im only a couple of miles away from jabbasport, hopefully they will be able to take care of that but im yet to speak to them about it.
     
  35. latinmike

    latinmike New Member

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    I think i will take up on suggestion, most of the info ive got was from vw forums and there are at least two of them with ko4 but nothing about figures.. tbh my goal is to top my current figures on the 1.8t with a 6 cyl growl a little kick of the turbos and most of all a good oem look ill be happy :)

    As for the fabricator, one of my buddys is a profesional welder and we are gonna be doing most of the pipe work ourselves which is gonna save me a lot of money, the remmap im aware is gonna be a custom one but im from peterborough and im only a couple of miles away from jabbasport, hopefully they will be able to take care of that but im yet to speak to them about it.
     
  36. Sam_

    Sam_ Down under

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    I'd look for a kit on vortex. They come up now and then. Saves mucking about with a twin turbo setup. Single turbo seems to work well.
     
  37. aragorn

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!"
    Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    The single K04 will be fine upto around the same power levels as the S3 runs. If your happy with 280ish HP then just use one.

    Twin turbo isnt a wise move IMO. you'd be far better off just getting a single bigger turbo to begin with. I simply cant see you fitting two turbos in the engine bay with that motor.
     
  38. Sam_

    Sam_ Down under

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    Hardly worth going to the effort to fit a K04. Surely the hotside would be even more **** with a 3.2 bolted to it?

    Do it right and fit a GT30/35 first time around ;)
     
  39. aragorn

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!"
    Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    If the hotside can flow 300hp, it can flow 300hp.

    It doesnt particularly care if its a 1L engine running 3bar of boost or a 3 litre engine on 5psi.


    Consider the standard K03 turbo used on early 1.8T's which limit the engine to about 200hp max, it runs fine doesnt it? Completely lag free and boost from 1500rpm. For what power it has, its a great drive. Putting a 300hp turbo onto a 2.8L engine isnt really any different to fitting a 200hp turbo onto a 1.8!


    But yes, i agree its probably a bit pointless unless 300hp will do him and he wont want any more. However from his post, that was the suggestion i got...
     
  40. jamiebennett81

    jamiebennett81 Active Member

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    only worth doing if you are going to put a blower on it

    I reckon, if you are doing all the labour yourself, you are still looking on the darkside of 5k+
     
  41. burns3

    burns3 Member

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    If your happy with the power you have now you may aswel just record the noise of the engine you want and play it when your driving......will save you thousands ;)
     
  42. superkarl

    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    There is a twin turbo 24v vr6 build on vortex using, you didnt guess it, 2 ko4-02x turbos.
    It looks far from oem, but its nicely done, well fabricated too.
    The guy had it running on actuator for a while at like 6-8psi and reported that it was savagely responsive and torquey, as youd expect.
    The thread then got to him having a proper map on it, at 10psi and the guy was very very happy! Then it fizzled out and no further updates.
    This was done on a completely stock vr6, hence the low boost. But in order to raise it you need a lower CR head gasket and some internals like rods and pistons, which the OP of the build was planning to do, sadly no updates on that and the power it couldve/did run.
     

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