1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Engine replacement due to oil leak

Discussion in 'A4/A4 cabriolet/S4 forum(B6 chassis)' started by freestuffinnit, Aug 14, 2009.

  1. freestuffinnit
    Offline

    freestuffinnit New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2009
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Aug 14, 2009]
    Hi there, hope someone can help. I have a 2004 Audi A4 1.9TDI

    After having the car serviced (minor service, simple oil and sump plug replacement) by an Audi service center, the car developed a major oil leak. drained completely within 3 miles.

    According to Audi, it has nothing to do with them since it's the sump gasket which broke. And due to the damage now needs a Short Engine and Turbo unit at a cost of £4000.

    If the gasket broke then surely it would not drain that quickly and would have developed a small leak which I may have noticed.

    Is it more likely that the sump plug was not fitted properly and came out, hence drained that quickly since if it was the gasket then there would still be oil in the sump, since the sump gasket is above the sump?

    Of course I just have to take Audi's word that it was the gasket.

    Is there any action I can take against Audi?

    If there is a technician that could answer a few questions for me i'd appreciate it:

    1. Have you ever seen an A4 engine leak oil so profusely from the sump gasket/seal that it completely drains and starves the engine within approx 3 miles?

    2. Where is the sump plug located, is it the side of the sump or bottom?

    3. Where can the oil leak from to completely drain the engine of oil?

    I need to word an email to the service manager explaing why I don't think it was the sump gasket/seal, if anyone could help with that it would be great.

    Thanks,
    Terrence
    #1
  2. technics100
    Offline

    technics100 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    778
    Likes Received:
    12
    [Aug 14, 2009]
    you need to look at the car and see where the leak came from, surely if the sump gasket was leaking they would of spotted it when changing the oil, the sump would need to be hanging off to drain 4 litres of oil in 3 miles, they would notice that..
    #2
  3. freestuffinnit
    Offline

    freestuffinnit New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2009
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Aug 14, 2009]
    That's what I suspect.

    Unfortunately the car is at the audi dealership at the moment and I wouldn't know how to spot it and I guess they've stripped it all down.
    #3
  4. pjmspeedy
    Offline

    pjmspeedy Dude, what's mine say ?

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2008
    Messages:
    1,058
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Aug 14, 2009]
    Whatever you do...do not take there word for it! After what you have said I would say that it's there fault 100%. I'm with you that some monkey didn't put the sump plug in properly otherwise if it was the sump gasket they would have spotted it and there's no way that it would drian that quickly.

    Which dealer was this ?
    #4
  5. freestuffinnit
    Offline

    freestuffinnit New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2009
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Aug 14, 2009]
    It was Finchley Road Audi (owned by spireautomotive)
    #5
  6. docurley
    Offline

    docurley Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2003
    Messages:
    3,894
    Likes Received:
    28
    [Aug 14, 2009]
    Not a chance in hell would a gasket let go and drain the whole oil just like that.

    You would have needed to have had a hole in the sump for that to happen and an engine light would have come up warning you so.

    I suspect they did not tighten the sump nut which then came out and drained the engine but you would be aware of thins as the engine light would have come on plus you would have left a trail of oil all over the road.

    Someone is bull shitting you and I would get on to Audi UK straight away plus just turn up to the Audi dealer and ask to be shown the sump and the so called oil leek also take a cheap bottle of oil and fill it up so you can see the so called leek in effect because it will leak instantly by what they are saying.
    #6
  7. Broken Byzan
    Offline

    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2004
    Messages:
    12,940
    Likes Received:
    379
    [Aug 14, 2009]
    You will also find that the sumpplug is not currently there . No chance a gasket failiure can cause 4-5 litres of oil to drain in 3 miles, you could fit the sump with no gasket and it would be better than that. Someone has made a mistake and it's being covered up, simples
    #7
  8. freestuffinnit
    Offline

    freestuffinnit New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2009
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Aug 14, 2009]
    The oil light did come on and the car promptly stopped with no power...
    #8
  9. freestuffinnit
    Offline

    freestuffinnit New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2009
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Aug 14, 2009]
    Simples I agree, but proving it that's going to be the battle...

    In the process of writing a letter to the Service manager, then based on that reply taking it to the Motor Industry Code of Practice...
    #9
  10. docurley
    Offline

    docurley Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2003
    Messages:
    3,894
    Likes Received:
    28
    [Aug 14, 2009]
    Get on to Audi UK and speak to them, the only way this could happen is if the sump was cracked.

    Ask for there diagnoses in writing and then go down there and ask to see it but I strongly suggest you contact Audi UK.

    Ok just got off the phone to my mate who owns VW enterprise who is a mechanic and he stated.

    1. They do not have a gasket; the sump is sealed by silicon sealant.
    2. Even if the part of the sealant went it could not dump all the oil on the road.
    3. The only way it could was if the sump nut was not done up or you cracked the sump.

    His only words are they are trying to do you over.
    #10
  11. freestuffinnit
    Offline

    freestuffinnit New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2009
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Aug 17, 2009]
    Docurley, thanks for contacting your friend.

    I have contacted Audi UK and awaiting there reply.
    I've also contacted the Service Manager at Audi Finchley Road, this is what I wrote:

    I have a few concerns about my vehicle which I'm sure you're aware of via Rafiq.

    1. The car was serviced by Audi Finchley Road.
    2. Approximately a week later there was a catastrophic oil leak causing damage to the engine.
    3. At the side of the road, one of your technicians who was passing by stopped and had a look, he laughed and said someone did not tighten the oil filter or sump plug correctly.
    4. Once at your service centre (Mon 10 Aug), I was told it was the sump plug seal/washer which broke.
    5. Upon further investigation the the cause of the oil leak was said to be the sump gasket/seal (Wed 12 Aug) and not the sump plug seal and your technicians found that I would need a short engine and turbo unit.
    6. Why was I first told it was the sump plug washer?
    7. I don't see how the oil would completely leak out the sump because the gasket is higher than the lowest point. That's the point of the sump.
    8. Also it is my understanding that it is highly unlikely that a leak in the sump gasket/seal would cause the engine to drain completely of oil within the space of a few miles since the sump is effectively the crankcase and as such is only under crankcase breathing pressure which is not much.
    9. I must point out that the oil was flowing out with the engine turned off.
    10. I was also told that had this happened within 20 miles of the service, then Audi would have covered it, but because I did 164 miles it’s not covered.
    11. I find it strange that I was initially told it's the sump plug, then changed to the sump gasket/seal.

    Your thoughts on this matter would be appreciated.

    Let's see what he comes back with...

    Thanks again.
    #11
  12. pjmspeedy
    Offline

    pjmspeedy Dude, what's mine say ?

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2008
    Messages:
    1,058
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Aug 17, 2009]
    Fingers crossed for you buddy
    #12
  13. docurley
    Offline

    docurley Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2003
    Messages:
    3,894
    Likes Received:
    28
    [Aug 17, 2009]
    it will be very interesting to hear what they have to say.
    #13
  14. RyanJonS4
    Offline

    RyanJonS4 Drive It Like You Stole It

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2009
    Messages:
    293
    Likes Received:
    2
    [Aug 17, 2009]
    A similar thing happened to a mate of mine I work with on his astra.
    Its a long story which involves engine mouinting bolts being left out after work by a dealer, his gearbox falling out, and the dealer saying its nowt to do with us and refusing to put it right.
    My mate paid £90 ish for a dvla inspection to be carried out.
    Once he told the dealer he was going down that route, their attitude towards him completely changed and they s**t themselfs the moment he mentioned it.
    My understanding of it is anyone can have this inspection carried out for a flat fee, and the dvla will go over the car with a fine tooth comb and detail anything thats a miss.
    If you log onto direct.gov.uk you should find details about this on there somewhere.

    RyanJon
    #14
  15. RyanJonS4
    Offline

    RyanJonS4 Drive It Like You Stole It

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2009
    Messages:
    293
    Likes Received:
    2
    [Aug 17, 2009]
    Thinking about it now, it may have been a vosa inspection?
    #15
  16. diagnosticator
    Offline

    diagnosticator New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Aug 18, 2009]

    1. No

    2. The sump drain plug is at the bottom right side.

    3. The ONLY place the oil fill can drain from the sump completely, is via the removed/very loose sump drain plug.

    Think about the dealers excuse, it is unlikely in the extreme. First as already stated, the oil can't escape from the sump below the point where it is leaking from, otherwise only from being pumped out from a pressurized joint/seal/gasket. The sump to block seal has NO gasket, it is assembled from the factory using RTV silicone, the assembled joint thickness is very thin, so the seal won't just fail and exit the joint. Also, there is no pressure on the sump to block joint, so again, that is not a plausible excuse from the dealer. Clearly the sump plug was not tightened properly, and the occurrence of the problem directly after having the oil changed is further evidence the dealer story is without merit. The dealer's excuse cannot withstand rigorous technical scrutiny.
    #16
  17. freestuffinnit
    Offline

    freestuffinnit New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2009
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Aug 19, 2009]
    Hi Guys,

    Latest development is that it was the oil pump which failed.
    They admit the sump plug was leaking, as well as the sump seal and they're saying there was still oil in the sump when they took it apart.
    They've dropped the price for repair to £1750.
    I'm still waiting to hear from Audi UK. Unfortunately I need the car back so they're repairing it now, but when I spoke to the motor industry watchdog they're said it's ok to go ahead and have it repaired before they get involved.

    Again thanks for all the help.
    #17
  18. docurley
    Offline

    docurley Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2003
    Messages:
    3,894
    Likes Received:
    28
    [Aug 19, 2009]
    The pump failed!!!!!!!!

    But why would that dump all the oil for one and two seems like they are trying cover there F**k-up if you ask me.

    Sump seal now this.... if there was no oil like they said the first time then yes the pump would fail as it not being lubricated and Yes your oil sump was leaking but not before you brought it in only after they gave you back the car as it would have been spotted before by them as they would have wanted the money to fix it.

    BS again if you ask me.

    Sump was fine and if the pump as gone then it would have be due to no oil but I would lay money on it, it was just the sump nut and they need to shift the blame.
    #18
  19. aragorn
    Offline

    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2008
    Messages:
    16,480
    Likes Received:
    453
    [Aug 20, 2009]
    Yer i agree.

    I'm sure you said up there that there was clearly oil pissing out the bottom of it when you stopped, and that a passing mechanic when he saw it stated that someone hadnt fitted the sump plug. If there was, and no doubt a stream up the road too, then it was not the oil pump that caused the problem.

    The fact the story has changed so many times just makes it all the more unbelievable.
    #19

Share This Page