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Engine rebuild?

Discussion in 'A4/S4 forum(B5 Chassis)' started by Lee Goodall, Dec 12, 2008.

  1. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    Anybody got any idea (rough price) of the cost including labour?
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  2. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    Sorry.. a bit non specific.

    Talking engine internals, valves, pistons, rods etc.
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  3. jcb
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    jcb Active Member

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    what do you mean when you say "rebuild"?
    if you mean complete rebuild, replace all bearings then pricey.
    if you mean pull a few major bits and replace then not as painful.

    I was quoted 10 hours for the engine block itself. that was me turning up with a stripped block and a box of new bits. blueprinting all tolerances and fitting crank, rods, pistons, water/oil pump (got no time to get my beast up and running!)
    add another 5-10 if they are going to strip it out the car for you and do a proper job.
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  4. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    Yeah full rebuild head and block with all new components.. although I'd probably go for higher spec parts where it matters while I've got the chance.

    Just weighing up sticking in a newish (low mileage) standard AEB complete engine, building myself one or having one built. If I'm building one or having one built then I might as well keep my eye open for parts.
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  5. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    A few years ago i got a local place to rebuild a vauxhall 1.6 16v engine. Cost me £700 (parts and labour) in the end, which included them removing the motor from the car, stripping the cylinder head, fitting new guides and recutting the valve seats, then honing the block and fitting new rings and bearings. then rebuilding it all and refitting it in the car.

    That was an off the books price though and it took them a couple weeks to do it

    I'd imagine taht it'd cost a bit more these days and quite likely double that paying full dollar

    The parts arent particularly expenisve, especially if your reusing your pistons and things, but parts of the job can be quite time consuming.
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  6. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    you say all new components, but are you really going to change things like the cams or crankshaft?
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  7. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    I'd like to use all new parts but if there's a major saving to be made by reusing originals where possible then obviously I'd do it.
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  8. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    things like crank and cams generally aren't changed unless they're either a) broken or b) your upgrading them.

    Quite a common upgrade in the vauxhall world was fitting an inlet cam from a C20XE to the LET, as it gives a bit more lift, but it needed a vernier pulley to dial out some of the overlap, and i dont know if thats possible on a 1.8T (ie using a 1.8NA cam)?
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  9. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    If I can scrape the money together I'd like to upgrade as many parts as possible.. I'd need to put together a build sheet and cost it up to get a better idea. If there's a cam available that'd be more suited to the direction I'd be taking the tuning then I'd be sticking that in too I suppose.

    I'd need to do some proper research first!
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  10. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    i suspect that you'd have to be going pretty high power to actually require more cam.

    I've never heard of anyone breaking a 1.8T crank, and i dont think you'll be tuning the engine to the point where you need to worry about it. So all you'd need to do is ensure its still within tolerance and polish the journals.

    What is your target bhp? 300? 350? more?
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  11. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    Bearing in mind I'm sticking with FW then anything over 300 will be a right handful to control!!

    ..so say 300 hp ish.
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  12. jcb
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    jcb Active Member

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    what are you planning to run on it turbo wise? your end goal will determine what direction is best.
    Cams aren't really much of an upgrade unless you are getting into GT3076/GT35 territory as they can improve top end lift and help with surging issues (small engine can't cope with the volume of boost a GT35 at 25psi produces, get into anti surge housing and associated stuff) all they are really doing is pushing your curve up and to the right.
    I wanted the opposite and the stock items are regarded as a pretty good compromise for lift and duration on this engine.

    I swapped the crank for a 92.8mm throw to take it up to 2008cc on a 83mm rebore.
    otherwise it has never been broken due to abuse through boost

    unless you wan't bigger capacity the stock pistons are better than some aftermarket ones.
    rods you can get cheap, I got scat rods for £2-300. I am getting some more next month if you want a set.
    set of new bearings, (I did rods, mains and Im shaft all new)
    oil and water pumps
    studs if you feel like it
    all fairly straight forward
    the head needs a new set of valves/springs if you are running high boost or high revs.
    Supertech make inconel exhaust valves an Ti springs and retainers, better option than Ferrea oversized in my opinion unless you are going massive turbo.
    I reckon I have spent less than a grand on parts for a fully built 2.0l bottom end and uprated head.

    I just don;t have time to put it all together and still haven't clearanced the block to put the rods/pistons in!!

    If you can do without the car or have a spare block then stripping it yourself will always save you a shed load of cash.
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  13. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    do you really think you need to goto the extent of inconel/oversize valves for 300hp?

    Probably find even the rods are fine at that power level, although for 2-300quid its pretty attractively priced.
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  14. jcb
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    jcb Active Member

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    too many stories of cars dropping valve heads into the cylinder to ignore in my opinion.
    would never reuse the OEM valves on an uprated build. they are not that pricey and if they do go you are looking at potentially grenading an engine
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  15. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    yer, but arent the standard valves sodium filled? Doesnt this make them a little better than aftermarket parts for cooling reasons?

    What sort of cost is involved in a set of inconel valves?

    All this money makes me think i'd defo be going down the V8 route for 300hp :D
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  16. jcb
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    jcb Active Member

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    two peice sodium filled. cooling yes, tendency to part company with stem also comes free.

    $250 for exhaust only
    $450 for complete set
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  17. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    are the inconel ones 1 piece? or 2 piece friction welded?

    What you need to do is strap a pair a GT28's to a stock ABZ and feed it with 7-8psi. ~450hp for not much money!
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  18. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    I'm assuming for 300hp I wouldn't need to go stupid with the turbo. If I can build to that spec (parts for head and bottom end) for less than a grand then I'd be happy. Obviously any labour not done by myself would be on top of that.
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  19. Lee Goodall
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    Lee Goodall ..got my head together!

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    I knew you were going to say that. lol

    I just like the fact it'd be an AEB spawned mutant engine.
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  20. jcb
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    jcb Active Member

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    4 more sets of things to go wrong with a V8........
    although the noise of a twin turbo V8 is awesome
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  21. billybravo
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    billybravo MODERATOR

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    im a dealer for Cat Cams

    they do soild stainless valves and uprated hydos
    Cams to any profile you want and both pullys front and back
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  22. naefeart_A4
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    naefeart_A4 Bonkers

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    To give you an idea of cost from a tuning company - Backdraft Motorsport (www.backdraftmotorsport.com) do a 1.8T internal upgrade for around 2K inc labour and vat.

    Wossner lower compression forged piston kit
    Backdraft Motorsport Forged Con Rod set
    Head gasket set
    Head bolts
    Skim head, Seat valves, Replace valve stem seals etc

    If I was going to seriously up the power in mine, I'd be tempted.

    n
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  23. jcb
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    jcb Active Member

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    if you are in Aberdeen and planning a build get yourself to Engine Services in Rosewell outside Edinburgh. He does engine builds for numerous tuning companies.
    there is notthing he can't do and it won;t cost you £1300 in labour like that backdraft kit
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  24. naefeart_A4
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    naefeart_A4 Bonkers

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    Sounds good, have you used them in the past?

    There's not much on the net about them, that I can find anyway.

    n
    #24
  25. jcb
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    jcb Active Member

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    word of mouth. he does stuff for MRC, knows Doug, his shop is classic, stuff everywhere, WRC engines, 911 rebuilds, 3.0l stroker RS4 engines, mk2 golf heads chopped up so he can port them better.
    He did my rebore, put dowels in my 2.0l 20v crank when no-one else even knew what I was talking about. he will probably end up doing my engine block if I ever want to see it on the road!
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  26. jcb
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    jcb Active Member

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    one thing though. he is seriously busy. it won't be done in a hurry but it will be done well
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  27. naefeart_A4
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    naefeart_A4 Bonkers

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    Sounds like a good option.

    Will keep it in mind :icon_thumright:

    n
    #27

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