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Engine Rattle - Help!

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by NoggyDS3, May 2, 2008.

  1. NoggyDS3
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    NoggyDS3 Member

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    Hi folks, following my recent post about engine rattling, i managed to get this video of it. It only does it every now and again, but particularly after a decent run. For more info - see this thread:

    http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/showthread.php?t=54794&highlight=rattle

    Excuse the quality of the vid, it was getting dark and it was on my mobile. Bearing in mind i'm holding the phone right next to the engine, the vid makes it sound louder than it is and you can't really hear it within the car. It doesn't make a difference if i press the clutch so dont think its flywheel related. The cam chain tensioner has also been mentioned but it doesn't appear to be obviously coming from that area. It seems to be coming from the block (cant really work out if it is coming from either side) but right at the end of the vid it gets louder as i put the phone right down towards the centre of the engine.

    Please help me find out what it is as it's worrying me now!!

    [​IMG]
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  2. NoggyDS3
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    NoggyDS3 Member

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    'BUMP'!

    Could it be oil related - ie lack of lubrication at higher temps? Although would it not be more likely to do that when cold??!

    Help!
    #2
  3. S3 Dave
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    S3 Dave Now running on Heavy Oil

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    Sounds well like a lube prob!!

    Are you sure someone hasn't swooped it for a TDI??

    Get you sump pick up checked!!!
    #3
  4. NoggyDS3
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    NoggyDS3 Member

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    Lol - I know! the video does make it sound a lot worse than it is, but i do want it fixed asap! Thanks for the reply.

    It's strange how it only does it rarely, and when its hot though! I'd have thought lube would've been better when hot??!! and if the pick up pipe was blocked, would it not make noises all the time?! very confused!

    It's booked in next week so i'll get him to take a look at the pick up pipe and the sump, and maybe get the oil pump done while they're in there just as a precaution...
    #4
  5. Clach
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    Clach A3 - 1.8Ts

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    I don't want to throw you off the trail but I had an intermitent fuel pump prob. after long journeys in my pug, which made exactly that sound Perhaps, worth thinking about! It sorted itself out once you turned the engine off for a bit and then on again (if that is any help).
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  6. NoggyDS3
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    NoggyDS3 Member

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    Thanks Clach - happy for any suggestions at all as i think it could be anything! The more ideas i get, the more things i can check out! Like i say, it doesn't affect the performance of the car and doesn't do it all the time but when it does do it worries me like mad as i'm pretty paranoid about the car running perfectly! It doesn't go away if i turn the engine off and then on again straight away, however, if i leave it for a good while then turn it on again its fine!

    What exactly was your problem with the fuel pump? How long are these meant to last on the S3? Mine's done 57k. Has anyone else had probs?

    Thanks
    #6
  7. jamieface
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    jamieface the only S3 in the villiage

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    Im no expert but that to me sounds either like the oil pump for the VVT at the side of the head or the cam belt tensioner. i had the tensoiner on mine go and it souded very very similar. if i was you i would keep the driving of it down to a minimum just in case.
    God luck with the garage and hope it gets fixed quick and cheap !!!!
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  8. Clach
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    Clach A3 - 1.8Ts

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    Basically- I needed a new one...I would also experience some jerkiness of the engine at 50mph before it clattered like that...Again, that was the pug, which was ****.
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  9. NoggyDS3
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    NoggyDS3 Member

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    Had the cam belt and tensioners replaced about 2 months ago. Do you mean the cam chain tensioner? Thats been suggested by themanthatcan but his made that noise all the time, mine only does it occasionally.

    Whats the oil pump for the VVT? is that different to the oil pump in the sump??

    Thanks
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  10. HTC
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    HTC Active Member

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    That sound is excessive valve clearance. I'd go for a problem VVT system. Sounds like the advance mech isn't working.
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  11. NoggyDS3
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    NoggyDS3 Member

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    Thanks HTC. What does this mean?

    What do i need the mechanic to look at? What potentially needs fixed/replacing? and can you give me an indicative timescale/cost?

    Thanks.
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  12. HTC
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    HTC Active Member

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    Just had a re-think. If the variable valve timing wasn't working, you should still have the correct valve clearances, just slightly incorrect valve timing.
    Does most of the noise seem to come from the bump on the right hand side of the valve cover, or elsewhere? You may have a stuck tappet or two. If more than one, then oil pressure should be checked. Pumps can fail on these cars, which can cause damage, but might just be wrong oil.
    What grade of oil are you running??

    Valve clearance = the small gap between the tappet and valve to ensure the valve closes completely.
    Hydraulic tappet = a little bucket that fills with oil to ensure correct valve clearance gap.
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  13. NoggyDS3
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    NoggyDS3 Member

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    It was filled with 5w-30 about 2000 miles ago. Very difficult to tell exactly where the noise is coming from as it has only made the noise a handful of times. Only after a decent run even then only at idle. The last time, i didn't think the noise was coming from either end, just in the middle?!
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  14. HTC
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    HTC Active Member

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    Okay, does sound like a couple or maybe just one tappet isn't pumping up when hot.

    Had a quick look through my owner's manual. On page 129 it states "do not drive for extended periods with high engine speeds or full throttle when using multigrade oil SAE 5W-30"

    Would appear that this oil maybe too thin for your car at elevated temps. Take a look in the FAQ for correct oil. Try a different oil and see how you get on.
    #14
  15. NoggyDS3
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    NoggyDS3 Member

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    Not sure HTC - the recording above is the best sound i've got of it as you can hear it much clearer in the vid than 'n 'real life'. That, and it doesn't do it often either.

    I'll give it a flush and put some good 5w-40 in it this week and hopefully that'll sort it out. May get the sump taken off and get the pump/pick up pipe checked too as a precaution given the failure of these on some of these engines.

    Thanks for your help mate.
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  16. NoggyDS3
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    NoggyDS3 Member

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    Hmmm... doing a bit of research on the old oil situation. My owners manual doesn't say that HTC, it just says use 503.01 oil. From a bit of searching, most of these appear to be 0w-30 or 5w-30 so my oil type should be fine??!! The only 503.01 approved oil that i could find in 5w-40 is Shell Helix Ultra!! Think i'll be going with that then!

    Think i'll just pay for the oil pump/pick up pipe replacement... if nothing else it gives me piece of mind that it's been done...
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  17. HTC
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    HTC Active Member

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    Easy to check oil pressure at a good garage tho before you spend out. Mine is an early manual. Guess things changed for later publications.
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  18. NoggyDS3
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    NoggyDS3 Member

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    Car booked in for an oil pressure test, they were changing an oil pump on another 1.8T when i phoned...

    Only bugger is that i am off up to Loch Lomond for a couple of days tommorrow and was looking forward to a decent run in the S3. Now we'll have to take the missus's oil burner fiesta... :crying:
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  19. NoggyDS3
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    NoggyDS3 Member

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    UPDATE:

    The garage said they took it for a run but the engine wasn't rattling afterwards (typical - thought that might be the case!). They did an oil pressure test and found that it was running a little on the low side, particularly at idle. Think he said around 3bar at idle and around 4bar at 2000rpm. Does that sound alright? He said it should be 4.5bar and that the symptoms i have indicate that the pump is still working but is on its way out, not being able to pump the hot and thin oil at idle.

    He ordered a new pump and pick-up pipe and its getting replaced on tuesday... so fingers crossed that fixes it!
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  20. HTC
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    HTC Active Member

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    According to Audi specs for your car, you should see at least 1.3bar at idle and between 3.5 and 4.5bar at 2000rpm.

    So it would appear your car is within spec.
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  21. NoggyDS3
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    NoggyDS3 Member

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    Damn - was without computer for a week and only just back on now, wish i'd seen your reply earlier!!

    Well - update, they changed the oil pump and pick up and put some 503.01 oil in anyway (not terribly cheap but at least i know it's been done now) However, it obviously wasn't the problem as it did the rattle again the other day.

    It doesn't seem to be coming from any area on the head in particular, i did the old screwdriver-to-ear trick and the noise was the same at the right hand side as it was in the middle and on the left...

    Basically, i'm left with either the cam adjuster or tappets...

    As i've said earlier, it doesn't do it all the time, only after a decent run and even then, only exactly at idle which seems strange. It does not do it when cold or even after i've had it for a 'wee' run. If it was the tappets, would it not do it all the time, ie even when cold?? and if it was the cam adjuster would it not throw up an error on vagcom?? (there was none...)

    Car seems to run absolutely perfectly otherwise and i'm determined to fix the rattle!
    #21
  22. mrj0ey
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    mrj0ey Member

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    HEy,

    I have been following this quite closely as i have aratle that sounds asthough it is coming from behind the speedo area. I have been told that it could be the camchain as it only seems to present itself between 1800-2100 rpm on engine braking, and at high revs 5000 plus on acceleration. sometimes at idle, but not always.

    I have had it for ages, it has not got any worse so not sure what it is. I was recommended by a very good garage to change the pump and pick up like you have done, but it could also be the cam chain and tensioner?!?! The car pulls really well and performance does not seem to be comprimised, just annoying rattle that only i seem to be able to hear.

    Let me know if you get it sorted.

    Joe
    #22
  23. NHN
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    NHN Modmetractor

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    chain & tensioner sound likely plus the belt tensioner is another one, mine was the belt tensioner, tappets I am not a pro on but doubt its this as would do alot more of the time I think mate.
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  24. NoggyDS3
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    NoggyDS3 Member

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    Had it's timing belt/tensioner/water pump replaced in january and it's.

    It's only done 58k with FSH and plenty of oil changes. Bit annoyed that it's pointing to automatic cam adjuster/chain tensioner but i'd have thought that would throw up an error!? Again, if it's tappets why only when the engine is hot? If they were sticking would they not stick more when cold?!

    It's just so weird that it does it so infrequently and thats the difficulty i'm having. Had the car out twice today and it's fine!

    I'll maybe just have to keep an eye on it till i can properly identify it as i dont fancy forking out £600-700 to change the cam chain and tensioner (more if i do the tappets too) and still be left with the noise!

    Still happy for any advice!
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  25. waymal
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    waymal New Member

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    Had the same problem with my car, used to drive me insane, had all the oil pressure checks like yourself and was slightly under its normal reading, anyhow checked my fuse for my fan which is situated on the battery cover and one had blown, this fuse was for the fan and the secondary water pump, after replacing the fuse its never happened again. dont know if this helps, but stops the engine overheatin.
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  26. NoggyDS3
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    NoggyDS3 Member

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    The engine does't overheat mate, and both fans are working so dont think it'll have been that but thanks anyway!

    It hasn't done it since since my last post so hopefully it's gone!!
    #26
  27. Shy19s
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    Shy19s Oil running through my veins.

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    I had this problem once after a quick burn, same noise i think,
    It was quite loud in "real life" high pitched, im was pretty sure it was tappets checked the oil and it was pretty low..:S rookie mistake i know.. topped it up, still there, waited a while, changed the oil to 10-40 and she purrs nicely now... Could have just been hot temps, low oil.. but if its a reoccuring problem, i think its either what people have suggested or what sounds like an intermitant electrical firing prob, like hall sender but as said before error would come up..

    Can i suggest before you do spend all that cash on camchain tensioner that you change the oil to 10-40 try it out for a while and see how it runs. If you dont come to another solution. You dont loose anything from trying?

    Just a suggestion tho, hope you get it sorted, hate the feeling of an unresolved issue, especially not knowing what the cause is.
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  28. jesters3
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    jesters3 Active Member

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    Noggy did you find an answer to your rattle?
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  29. NoggyDS3
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    NoggyDS3 Member

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    I didn't i'm afraid Jesters. Its only done it once since i last posted. I then happened to be parked up for 5 mins and then when i started up it was fine again and its been running sweet as ever!:uhm:

    I'm probably gonna change the oil as Shy says at the next oil change, but i renewed it with 503.01 0w-30 when the pump was done (800 miles ago) and its not really been a prob so just gonna wait another couple of thousand miles before i change it.

    Why - you're not getting it as well are you??
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  30. jesters3
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    jesters3 Active Member

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    No something different. All is good until I get to 65/70mph where I get a rattling sound that sounds like something is catching against something rotating, get it when I am accelerating, coming off the gas the sound goes. Very strange.
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  31. NoggyDS3
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    NoggyDS3 Member

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    Hmm... very strange, not heard of that one. It's not something simle like the undertray being loose and flapping about at higher speeds is it?

    Sorry bud - no idea!
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  32. Id
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    Id Member

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    Just bumping this one up

    Mine does the exact same thing. Really starting to annoy me. Oil level is fine, only does it after a decent drive, doesn't do it after just a cruise.

    Any diagnosis yet? I'm thinkin of changing over to 10W40 to see if that helps. I don't like using 5W30 in this weather.
    #32
  33. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    VVT Timing chain tensioner 99%
    Its what we cured our 1.8tqs A3 with, struck lucky on ebay for a new unit un used for £100 delivered instead of nearly £300
    #33
  34. Id
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    Id Member

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    Yep. It's the issue with mine.

    Any source of parts in the UK you can reccomend? Might be cheaper to ship it out than buy one here.

    Bit annoying but what can you do?

    Out of interest how much time should it take a decent mechanic to do this?
    #34

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