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Engine Problem

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by Cork A3 (8P), Nov 6, 2013.

  1. Cork A3 (8P)
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    Cork A3 (8P) New Member

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    [Nov 6, 2013]
    Hello,

    My timing belt, water pump, spark plugs, oil & filter, air filter were all replaced a month ago. The engine has not been running smoothly during idle and I can feel very very slight vibrations through the chassis during idle and when driving on smooth road when at 2500-3000 RPM (cruising speed).

    The recirc valve was (N249) was replaced because a fault code came up after getting my car back from the mechanic.

    There are no fault codes showing up so I cannot determine what is wrong and the mechanic says it runs and drives perfectly.

    I've had the car a year and was never aware of the engine running when stopped in traffic, but now it has caught my attention since getting it back from a major service.

    I'm in Sydney and would like to know if anyone would meet me with a similar car so I can feel how your car runs when idling.

    Mine is 2006 A3 Sportback, 8P, 2.0 TFSI Quattro 147kW model.

    Thanks in advance.
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  3. radhaz
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    radhaz New Member

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    [Nov 6, 2013]
    I have a 2011 TFSI. There is no vibration from the motor that I can feel.
    #2
  4. Artimus
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    Artimus Short Back

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    [Nov 6, 2013]
    Was it lumpy before the service?

    I think I'd be checking the Spark Plugs are seated properly & the gaps are set correctly as a first course of action.
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  5. Cork A3 (8P)
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    Cork A3 (8P) New Member

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    [Nov 6, 2013]
    Engine was not previously lumpy so it never caught my attention. I will check spark plugs to begin with, thanks.

    ignition coils were replaced last year by the Audi dealer as part of a recall.

    Anyone know the spark plug gaps by any chance?
    #4
  6. MrLapou
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    MrLapou Well-Known Member

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    [Nov 6, 2013]
    Spark plugs normally come pre-set and require no adjustment.

    My train of thought would suggest looking at the timing belt timing and or tension.
    #5
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  7. Cork A3 (8P)
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    Cork A3 (8P) New Member

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    [Nov 6, 2013]
    Well, I've just plugged in my diagnostic tool and it is showing that recirc valve has failed. This failed the day I left the garage after the major service and it has failed again after it being replaced on Monday. Now I'm trying to figure out if the disassembly and reassembly of the engine for the major service has lead to this 'lumpy' feeling in the engine and the failure again of the recirc valve.

    I'm at a loss to what this problem is.
    #6
  8. NHN
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    NHN Retrofitter - Audi - VW - Skoda - Seat Site Sponsor VCDS Map User

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    [Nov 6, 2013]
    TBH if when replaced the recirc, its still problematic, then I would be looking at the timing, its amazing how many places fit belts being of by a tooth or in our case a tooth on each, caused us no end of issues, none the wiser as bought the car like that, wasn't until me & an audi tech mate did a proper change did we see the issue, since then the issues have gone.
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  9. Cork A3 (8P)
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    Cork A3 (8P) New Member

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    [Nov 6, 2013]
    Would bad timing cause other parts to fail and can bad timing, even out by a tooth, be detrimental to the engine?
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  10. NHN
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    NHN Retrofitter - Audi - VW - Skoda - Seat Site Sponsor VCDS Map User

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    [Nov 6, 2013]
    Well yeah, if its that bad then doubt would start at all, ours was delayed pulling away in the morning, took 30 seconds to decide what it wanted to do, then at junctions delayed reactions, used to drive me effing nuts, fitted new belt "correctly" along with pump etc & all good, now that's not to say yours is the same ok, but I often read bad running coupled with a recent belt change.
    #9
  11. Artimus
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    [Nov 6, 2013]
    Plug gaps for 2007> 2.0T are supposed to be 0.8mm, not sure if that's the same for a pre-2007 though.

    I digress, they are usually pre-set (if they're the correct type), but drop one through the engine bay during fitting & that gap will get a lot smaller than it's supposed to be. :)
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  12. Cork A3 (8P)
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    Cork A3 (8P) New Member

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    [Dec 2, 2013]
    So, to come back to my problem. My mechanic has replaced the N249 valve (Boost Pressure Control). Fault code is still coming up as 08801. He has advised me that Audi told him the code can also relate to the recirculation valve on the turbo. Now, I have done a bit of research into the whole thing and there appears to be confusion on the internet as to what valve is N249 and what is N75. My understanding is that the N249 is the recirculation valve on the turbo and the N75 is the boost pressure control valve. And I don't believe that the Germans would have related one fault code to two completely different parts. Can anyone shed some light on this?

    He want's to charge me another $235 to replace the recirculation valve. I don't know why, because he replaced the wrong part originally.

    2006 A3 Sportback, 8P, 2.0 TFSI Quattro 147kW model.

    http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/18693/P2261/008801



    Thanks.
    #11
  13. Sevv
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    Sevv Pushing the limits..

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    [Dec 2, 2013]
    hey Cork mate, im living in Sydney but mine is of the road being renovated lol, where did you get this major service of yours at ?
    #12
  14. Cork A3 (8P)
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    Cork A3 (8P) New Member

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    [Dec 3, 2013]
    Here's a different approach to solving the problems listed above.

    Does anyone want to have a shot at identifying the noise in the driver side foot well? Click on the link below.
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/6m2cc0y8cbdazmb/Drivers Footwell Engine Noise.m4a

    Also links to recordings of the exhaust sound idling. It would be good if there are any acoustic engineers on this forum who have software to dissect the sound waves to identify the firing pattern of the engine to determine if the engine is misfiring.
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ukdhkm8shlc9fbg/Exhaust noise 2 (Pipe 1).m4a
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/lf2mvuhjf9wxyjk/Exhaust Noise 3 (Pipe 2).m4a

    Car is booked in to the main dealer for the new year. If they say the car is fine, I'll put my hand up and admit I was wrong. If they find something, I will see what my mechanic wants to do.

    Finally, is there anyone in the Inner West or Eastern Suburbs or Olympic Park areas of Sydney with a 2006 A3 Sportback, Quattro, 2.0T 8P model that would be willing to meet me so I can sit in you car and listen and feel how your car idles? I will buy you lunch or a coffee or a case of beer for the privilege?

    Being a mechanical engineer who has always found and fixed problems doesn't make this any easier because I just have to find a solution, whatever it takes.

    Sevv.
    I don't want to name any company just yet because this problem is still ongoing. Once I have a resolution I will share the outcome.
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  15. Sevv
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    Sevv Pushing the limits..

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    [Dec 4, 2013]
    mate that sounds really bad if i were you i wouldnt really drive the car sounding the way it is thats pretty shocking

    if you want try Seb at Euro Automotive near parramatta 04 105 413 22 adress is 5/51 mandoon rd. girraween

    trust me he is one of the best around sydney not many workshops with his knowledge and experience give him a go tell him i referred you (seb) and i think he will look at your car asap.. and you probably see mine collect dust with the engine out :p
    #14
  16. Cork A3 (8P)
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    Cork A3 (8P) New Member

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    [Dec 4, 2013]
    sometimes the noise is there, other times it is not. So I can seem to get it to the mechanic when it is there. My mechanic couldn't identify it, but when he listened to it, it wasn't at it's loudest. I can only be heard when idling and no traffic around the car, windows & doors closed and radio turned off. It pulses going from low noise to high noise, so I believe it is a pulley or maybe it's the turbo?

    I haven't had a chance to investigate what rotating parts are near the driverside foot well.
    #15
  17. Sevv
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    Sevv Pushing the limits..

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    [Dec 4, 2013]
    you got the cam belt and drive belt with there pulley the turbo is almost in the middle and i wouldn't think it would sound like that it would probably be smoking as the turbine sheers off the seals if it were it
    #16
  18. Cork A3 (8P)
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    Cork A3 (8P) New Member

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    [Dec 4, 2013]
    Another cause that has come to mind is, if an engine is not sitting correctly in the engine mount after timing belt work has been carried out, is it possible that it could produce the slightest of vibrations, even thought the engine is running perfectly?

    See the picture below. The bolt and engine support are not in the original location. One can see the clean outline of where the support used to sit and the mark of where the head of the bolt was.
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/mgdtguduom8ro5p/photo.JPG

    Any opinions?
    #17
  19. Sevv
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    Sevv Pushing the limits..

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    [Dec 5, 2013]
    it is possible as you have allot of tapping noise, try to straighten the mount and see how it goes
    #18
  20. Fanboy
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    Fanboy An Audi Fanboy

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    [Dec 5, 2013]
    Ohhhhh my lord, this sounds as bad a heli if not worst, if I were you I wouldn't even turn on the engine :(
    Hope you get it fixed soon, but do let us know of any updates :)

    The image you have shown could be the reason but is it really that effective?! Coz it's still mounted regardless of its accurate sitting! Or i may be wrong :(
    #19
  21. Cork A3 (8P)
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    Cork A3 (8P) New Member

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    [Dec 7, 2013]
    This is a very complex reply. For those who are curious about my dramas, read on. I have made some serious allegations in my letter below.

    Enjoy.

    Well, to add to the saga. Sevv, I've been to see Seb and the first thing he looked at was the coolant. It looks like the original coolant MAY have been topped up with blue coolant. This means that there is now a corrosive mix of coolant flowing around my engine and it is a ticking time bomb as to when it will fail. On returning home I dipped the fluid and it is in fact, blue/green, see link below. My invoice says blue coolant, so they are not trying to hide the fact that it is the incorrect coolant. So my first course of action is to have a discussion with my original mechanic about the correctness of putting this coolant in the car. I'm not even sure if I should give them an opportunity to rectify the problem because it could be another half arsed job. Secondly, I have told Seb I will be back to him to flush the system. I have no confidence it the first garage now, they have lost all credibility with me. It now leads me to think that they may not have changed the water pump either and possibly not even the timing belt. These are very serious allegations that I am making and I need to have all my facts in place before pointing any fingers. I attach a link to a letter I have prepared and am willing to send. Could I get some feedback from the forum as to the accuracy of my findings. In particular, my allegation about oil replacement. I wrote the letter before discovering that a faulty re-circulation valve on the turbo can cause oil to leak into the air intake causing a major carbon build up. 0.5 litres/1000km which would explain why I've lost so much oil. See carbon build up section of link below. The letter will be sent if I get no response from them regarding the type of coolant in the engine.

    Coolant images:
    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ysff5k4wmjzkaeb/iBwLb4CaWx

    Carbon Build Up:
    Audi 2.0 TFSi tuning & Carbon build up issue

    Complaint Letter
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/jvyveunzu92bs1q/Letter of Complaint.docx

    Why can't people just do honest work instead of cutting corners??? really ****s me!!!:mad:

    Anyone been down this road before? I have wasted so much time diagnosing these problems. I could be earning some money instead.
    #20
  22. Sevv
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    Sevv Pushing the limits..

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    [Dec 7, 2013]
    mate shouldve asked before i wouldve told u to see seb he is a top bloke and yes that coolant will rust your engine , so if i were you id change it tomorrow atleast the coolant as your engine WILL seize 100%, how long as this coolant be inside your engine for.. and if your rebooking it with seb ask him to check your timing belt and water pump, he can do it quite quickly buy taking the timing belt cover off. the letter sounds good mate, but you might be in for a engine replacement if that isnt dealt with quickly.. i taken you saw my the poor a3 sitting there of mine too lol

    btw if i were you id change everything all over again depending on the circumstances that seb tells you, seb will show you and give you the old part to compare with the new one to allay you fears of him being dishonest.
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  23. Cork A3 (8P)
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    [Dec 7, 2013]
    Now I have a dilema. My mechanic has responded in writing. To make a statement like below in writing, you either have to be very sure about your work or very gutsy to lie in writing. Seb says it shouldn't be blue. My garage says it can be any colour??? Any Third opinions?

    "Stephen,

    Coolants come in just about any choice of colour. Secondly the coolant used is blue in colour, our coolants meet & exceed G12 in fact it meets & exceeds G13. Stephen, I feel a little disappointed with your actions, as I have been more than accommodating & supportive."
    #22
  24. Artimus
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    [Dec 7, 2013]
    I haven't revisited this thread for a while, but was just listening to the audio recording & I'm with NHN on this, in that it sounds like a timing issue. I think he's misaligned the cam belt.

    Get your errrrm... "mechanic" ...to recheck his work before paying out for parts that probably won't solve the problem.
    #23
  25. Sevv
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    Sevv Pushing the limits..

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    [Dec 7, 2013]
    nah mate he is completely wrong what a bloody muppet, that guy deserves some fair trade action mate.. its either PINK or PURPLE i think the G13 and pink is G12 under no circumstances is it blue or green. that seriously pisses me off mate.. get some to be an expert witness in the matter like he did with me mate with Audi and write up a report but fix it with him ASAP dont let it sit there for the love of God. better pay 1.5K now then 5-6K later my advise.. then you lodge a complaint with the help of Sebs report. if they want to go far enough analyse the contents of the fluid to compare to g12 and 13 and then tell them they blatantly lied and mislead and deceived you which is in breach of s22 i think in the MTA
    #24
  26. Cork A3 (8P)
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    Cork A3 (8P) New Member

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    [Dec 8, 2013]
    Thanks Sevv. I'm trying to work out a suitable time to get Seb to change the coolant. Tomorrow morning I will ring Audi to put the nail in the coffin. If they say PINK and no other colour, the I have Sebs statement, your opinion, Audi advice and my own research. Then I will have to prepare my action against these guys, based on the facts that I have.
    #25
  27. Sevv
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    Sevv Pushing the limits..

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    [Dec 8, 2013]
    all the best mate, just focus on draining it and have a thorough inspection of the a3 asap... its a shame mechanics cant own up to their mistakes
    #26
  28. Cork A3 (8P)
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    Cork A3 (8P) New Member

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    [Dec 8, 2013]
    Here's another addition to my list. On the invoice I noticed this morning that the mechanic has put in 10W40 oil into the engine. This could explain why I've been noticing the engine running a bit lumpy. I've been using 5W30 Castrol Edge Professional along life III since getting the car last year. Anyone think I have put the incorrect oil in my car or my mechanic has? The dipstick isn't even wet now and I've done 4000k since service.

    i know I should flush the oil now, but will there be any issues with topping up with 5W30? I would imagine that it would just eventually dilute the 10W40?
    #27
  29. Artimus
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    [Dec 8, 2013]
    I used the wrong grade oil in a ford once ...the valve gear gave up because of oil starvation. 10w40 is a lot thicker than 5w30 and won't circulate so easily. I hope you've given up driving the car.
    #28
  30. Cork A3 (8P)
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    [Dec 9, 2013]
    #29
  31. Cork A3 (8P)
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    [Dec 9, 2013]
    thanks for that Artismus. My mechanic has told me that the 10W40 is VW approved.

    From Mechanic:
    Here is the approval for from VW/VAG Specifications and approvals:API SL/CF
    ACEA A3-04/B4-04
    VW 501 01 and 505 00 (Issue 2005)
    MB-Approval 229.1
    LIQUI MOLY also recommends this product for vehicles for which the following specifications are required:
    VW 500 00

    He has given me the certificates for his coolant used & oil used and has offered to change the oil to 5W30 in front of me.

    Audi have told me to bring the car in ASAP to get the current oil flushed and replaced.

    I couldn't imagine that the difference in viscosity would cause the vibrations............or could it.

    So f@!king annoying. Mechanic gives 12 month warranty with all parts & labour, but does it really mean anything? My gut and instinct is saying not to let him near the car but my other side is saying to let him rectify any wrong doing. I'm not paying anything.......or will I in the long run.

    What a drama.


    #30
  32. Cork A3 (8P)
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    [Dec 9, 2013]
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  33. Artimus
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    [Dec 9, 2013]
    you'd be surprised at what the incorrect grade oil can do.

    That Ford I mentioned, sounded like the big end had gone after a few weeks & I still didn't connect the oil to the noise.

    Get it changed ASAP, if that fixes it... Sell the car.
    #32
  34. Sevv
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    Sevv Pushing the limits..

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    [Dec 9, 2013]
    i wouldnt trust him mate, not after what happened , me personally id get a full service dont once again get the proper 5w30 oil not 10w as Artimus has said , that poor oil pump is working double time, as for the coolant , i also wouldnt trust him even that these obscene vibrations are occuring AFTER the service its quite clear mate, he is trying to cover his own skin .. just put in do a complete flush of oil and coolant using G13.. its not worth you loosing your engine mate honestly. especially Seb told me that coolant was in your car for 2 months. Cork, we are not in the Uk we are in Oz. and you know how expensive it can be with Euros when they go wrong mate. let seb look after it for you, you wont regret it..
    #33
  35. Cork A3 (8P)
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    [Jan 8, 2014]
    Hi All,

    I'm back again. Can specific fault codes be disabled so they don't display again? I had the fault code 01330 for the CCM which I know was knackered because the central locking has stopped working. The remote is working because I got a spare key cut and they told me it's not the key. It was gone after getting the car back from the first mechanic. I also now have a code 001287 16891/P0507/001287 - Ross-Tech Wiki, which I wonder is it related to the vibrations I have been feeling. Car is finally going into Audi on Friday along with a written history of the car since October just gone.

    I better not get any surprises related to poor workmanship or I'll not be happy.
    #34

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