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Engine judder on startup only

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by leecool, Apr 22, 2012.

  1. leecool

    leecool Member

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    Hi you guys, hope any of you can help me as I'm close to driving my A3 off a cliff!
    I have a 2007 2.0 TDi Sportback 140bhp BKD engine. Not too long after owning the car which was bought April 2011, the engine developed a judder & rattle on startup just before it fires up. The car incidently drives flawlessly.
    It was doing my head in so I took it into an Audi dealership after hearing horror stories that there were problems with certain injectors. They didn't tell me that only the 170's suffered from this oh - no!, yet they went ahead & did the diagnostic anyway costing me £107.50. Long story short, they said my EGR needed replacing. But on inspecting the printout it said no communication with EGR.
    I was pointed in the direction of an Ex Audi mechanic who told me that the printout is wrong & the reason for the non comms of the EGR is because it is vacuum operated & not electronic like on some other models.Your EGR is fine he said.
    Anyway, he turned the car over a few times & heard the rattle & felt the judder. He said it's your Dual mass flywheel, it's f**ked. So I got him to replace the flywheel & timing belt for me.
    After a few start ups the fault started again! not so violent as before tho! I took it back to him & iterated that it was back. He said it could be the starter motor, on the 140's the armature windings can fail & give the starter motor a stop go - stop go type of rotation causing the starter to snatch at the flywheel. So I had him replace that also! When I had the car back he tested it over & over, in front of me & no judder.
    Hoorah I hear you say!
    Sadly no! The judder is still there, but only occasionally now & even less violent than the 2nd time. It really just does your head in!!!!
    I'm £1070.00 to the bad & suicidal. Fair enough he came to my home with (Audi's own diagnostic laptop that he was loaned, sssh) he ran a diagnostic there and then. The only red flag was that my synphony stereo was not coded correctly, yet I've not had 1 problem with it Nothing, no faults at all!
    I just do not know what to do now, I'm outa cash & outa ideas. What else can it be?
    Please please can anybody help?:blownose:
     
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  3. garuf

    garuf Member

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    Out of curiosity how much did it cost you to get your dual mass fly wheel done as I think mines on the way out too?
     
  4. ColganRaz

    ColganRaz Member

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    Is it that much of a problem? A judder of the engine before it fires doesn't sound too bad too me. But I don't fully understand to what extreme this "judder" is?
     
  5. leecool

    leecool Member

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    Hi garuf, I was fortuneate to get my flywheel done by an ex Audi tech & it cost me £680 all in. £290.00 for the DMF itself.
    hope that helps.
     
  6. leecool

    leecool Member

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    Hi ColganRaz, the reason I'm so P****d bout the judder is that Audi took me for £107.57 for a diagnostic they got completely wrong! Then I had the DMF replaced + timing belt ass & water pump £700.00. Still judder! then I had the starter motor done £200.00 still judder!
    So lets see, I been shafted by Audi, I'm into my A3 for nearly £1110.00 & still the freakin thing is still juddering!!
    AAAhrrrH!
    Please excuse my rant! lol! :blahblah1:
    Yeh the judder is a huge bit better, but a luxury car co' like Audi shouldn't have sooo much going wrong with them, the problems I've seen on here read like a Lada forum lol!
    For years I've saved & scrimped for my beloved A3, I've had it 11 months and I feel like I've been buggered by Ron Jeremy!:asskicking:
    I still love me little tractor tho.:blackrs4:
     
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  7. tdi-man

    tdi-man Well-Known Member

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    get timing checked common fault with these engines
     
  8. leecool

    leecool Member

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    I've just had the timing belt replaced & the car runs perfect, doubt it's timing??
     
  9. tdi-man

    tdi-man Well-Known Member

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    does it shake on idle ?
     
  10. garuf

    garuf Member

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    Mine shakes on idle and judders quite badly at full load.
     
  11. AidenUK

    AidenUK Well-Known Member

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    You could try and adjust the idle speed in VCDS, i have done this with my 140 and it's cured 99% of the juddering, sometimes when it's called i get the odd shudder but other than that it's fine usually.
     
  12. garuf

    garuf Member

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    What should it idle at?
     
  13. leecool

    leecool Member

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    Hi tdiman, no the car doesnt shake on idle, it's a bloomin mystery this 1!
    As you turn the key (after glow light gone out) you get a fast shake shake vroom. It's drivin me nuts because I've just had a new DMFW fitted & I don't know if the shaking & shuddering caused it, or may cause my newbie to fail prematurely over time.
     
  14. M88UES

    M88UES Theres Never Enough Power

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    Exactly same here , same symptoms and everything only 1 extra , at idle i have a huge wiff of unburnt diesel :S
     
  15. AidenUK

    AidenUK Well-Known Member

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    Whatever stops the judder.
     
  16. M88UES

    M88UES Theres Never Enough Power

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    should be 900 revs normally , but can be played with a lil to dampen the judder
     
  17. AidenUK

    AidenUK Well-Known Member

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    Before i altered mine, it was idling at 840, not 900.

    Mike, the chap who altered it says his idled at a slightly different RPM to mine, so they must all be a tad different.

    :icon_thumright:
     
  18. leecool

    leecool Member

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    My engine is ticking over perfectly, it runs flawlessly, but that freakin judder when I turn the key!
    I hope someone finds out what it is.
    I've written to Audi about mine & they said they would investigate it! Yehh rite!
     
  19. Sheikh

    Sheikh Member

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    Mine's the same, was under the impression it was the flywheel. Never really bothered me though, although it's looking like a hybrid turbo/new clutch and flywheel are in order soon.
     
  20. infernalzen

    infernalzen New Member

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    who sold you the car?
    sounds like they got rid of it with that problem present
     
  21. leecool

    leecool Member

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    Believe it or not it was owened by an old fogey & his wife. They were disabled.
    Can't really see them tearing it up & abusing the engine lol.
    I was walking past a TT just the other day, just as it was started, it sounded just like mine!
    The Audi techs are stumped.
     
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  23. mungo

    mungo New Member

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    leecool, did you find out the cause of the problem??
    mine has just started dooing the same....
    car runs fine, but a violent judder and bang when starting the car..
     
  24. Geraldy212

    Geraldy212 Sportback owner

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    Anyone thought about checking or replacing the engine mounting bushes? Could be broken, worn, coming loose or just simply deteriorating over time. Worth a check I would say.
     
  25. leecool

    leecool Member

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    Hi there mungo, well the answer to your question is not really. Does yours do this when you're starting the car? mine seemed like it wasn't getting either enough fuel onough air. When I turn the key it goes a clank clank vroom & the engine shudders. It's not the mounts nor the flywheel (b-new) god knows what causes this? Could be ignition issues I just don't know. My car been into Audi 3 times & each time they haven't done **** about it, probs because they don't know how!I wrote to Audi in Germany & they said that they had not heard such findings before, so are unable to help. Yeh right!!!!!!
    I did replace my battery & it has helped a lot, yet it's still there. Not as violent & not as much.
    Is yours a 140 like mine, or 170?
     
  26. MrLapou

    MrLapou Well-Known Member

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  27. Geraldy212

    Geraldy212 Sportback owner

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    I believe that the anti-shudder valve is there to smooth out the stopping of the engine. It cuts off air to the intake manifold when the engine is switched off to bring the engine to a halt without it scavenging whatever oil it can find after the fuel is turned off. Clearly it must open properly in order to restart, so its correct operation is important for starting too.
     
  28. leecool

    leecool Member

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    Hi there Grealdy121, where is this valve located & what's it called? I have had 2 diagnostics run on the car at Audi Swansea, they can't find owt wrong with it. Perhaps the Mechs are not good enough there!?
    cheers.
     
  29. Geraldy212

    Geraldy212 Sportback owner

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  30. MrLapou

    MrLapou Well-Known Member

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    Plugging in a diagnostics tool is only a small part of tracking down a fault. IMHO loads mechanics these days lack the practical skill of good old fault finding...
     
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  31. mungo

    mungo New Member

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    Leecool,
    mine does exactly the same as yours although it doesnt do it every time i start the car, mine is a 140
    prob happens every third startup, doesnt seem to do it just from cold, will do when engine is warm.

    when it happens it seems to have a slight hesitation in starting and then bursts into life with a judder and loud bang from engine area.
    i was under the impression that it was the DMF - spoke to Audi UK re the recall on DMF as my chassis number was listed and it doesnt appear to have been replaced car has just gone thru 80K - thought the juddering was down to DMF failing...

    Audi UK responded with although my car is listed on the VOSA website as requiring the recall and Audi records indicated that it wasnt replaced - they have said that the DMF recall didnt affect my car - they then said am i having problems with DMF ? they only seemed to want to get the car into the nearest stealer for a huge bill...

    the only thing that has happened prior to the problem was front wishbones replaced and an oil change.. doubt either of these have caused the juddering problem..

    im at a loss as to what to do next..
     
  32. leecool

    leecool Member

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    Hi again mungo, what year is your A3 then? mine is a 56 plate 07 registered. I've done the check & mycar is not listed, surely if your car was recalled for a DMF they have to replace it! I have spent a fortune on mine, yet it still happens! Audi have no customercare whatsoever! I have owned lesser cars with other manufacturers yet my experieces were positive. I have an ex Audi guy do my car & he says he doesn't know what it is either! I'm sick to death with Audi, wish I'd gone for a Beamer now!
    I don't know what to say really, other than get down to Audi & get the DMF replaced 1st, mention your issue & mention the anti shudder valve too!
    Keep me posted as I'd love to know your outcome.
     
  33. mungo

    mungo New Member

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    Lee,

    my audi is 2005, the issue with the juddering seems to have resloved itself last weekend...

    I changed the fuel filter and at the same time the air filter (did both of these as i knew that they hadnt been done in the last 10K and had an MOT coming up) - i ran some Forte diesel treatment through the system at the same time

    i have not had the judder since - im guessing it was fuel related - will let you know if it re-occurs..

    also took the A3 in for a complimentary safety check at Audi - and asked if they could give the car a look over before the MOT that i had booked at another garage, they said they would price match the other garages MOT price of £19 and would do the MOT straight after the safety check, part of the complimentary safety check is a valet of the car

    Car passed MOT without any issues as well :)


    so for £19 i had the MOT, car valet and major components checked - Happy Days....
     
  34. mungo

    mungo New Member

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    Lee,
    as for your wish to go for a Beamer - i had one as a company car, luckily the lease company picked up all of the charges for servicing - if you think Audi Stealers are expensive, go to your local Beamer stealer.. MPG on the 320i was absolute pants, im getting double the MPG in the A3....
     
  35. leecool

    leecool Member

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    Hi there Mungo, that's awesome news! How much are fuel filters if you don't mind me asking? I just about to do a service on my car myself, did you have to bleed the system after the filter swap?
    cheers for getting back, I really appreciate it. Will keep you posted on my judder issue.
     
  36. Vali

    Vali New Member

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    Hi Leecool, I own a vw golf 2.0 litre gttdi 2005 dsg 140 (45k miles). I have the same problem. When connected the car on the vag com system it showed that three out of four glow plugs were faulty. Today I have changed all four glow plugs and the problem disappeared, car started like a dream, I couldn't believe it, I started the car over 20 times to make sure and it started without the struggle. Only when I drove it about 5 miles i noticed that when starting it again i have had the problem come back. The engine judders violently like before when turning the key to start the car.

    Have you still got the same problem or is it cured?
     
  37. leecool

    leecool Member

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    Hi there Vali, I had changed the Dual mass flywheel, the starter motor too & still juddering on startup grrrr! I then tried changing the battery, it has lessened the judder yet it hasn't completely gone. i'm down £1600 & still have the problem, the car has been into Audi 5 times & each time they have said that they don't know or have said theres nothing wrong with the car! I have written to Audi 3 times about this & they have said "we have not heard of this fault, it has never been reported to us so we cannot help, take your car to your local dealer"
    What a waste of time! Liars & stealers, that's what they are!
    Sorry I can't give you good news.
    regards
     
  38. @udi A3

    @udi A3 Site Sponsor
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    does it still shudder when the clutch is pressed to the floor on startup?
     
  39. leecool

    leecool Member

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    Hi, I don't have a clutch as I have an auto s-tronic box on my car. Soz!




     
  40. sliced

    sliced Drive safe, stay alive.

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    hey mate did you get a egr delete yet? also what mileage is on the car, have you had the glow plugs checked?

    Also could you test this for me, start it up and let it idle for a minute or two. then turn it off. wait 30 secs and start it back up. does it judder as badly as a cold start?
     
  41. Johnny Bravo

    Johnny Bravo 6+1 Gears
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    I have the same problem with mine. When the engine is cold it ussually starts OK. When is warm, it judders violently.
    I had the starter motor checked, engine mounts checked, air filter, fuel filter, oil, oil filter changed, EGR deleted, new, more powerful battery and no improvement.
    Last WE though, I called the guy that did my custom remap and he told me that there is a problem with the fuel injection maps which affects the way the engine starts WHEN WARM/HOT. He did some modiffications and the start problems seem to have gone.

    Ask a tuning company for the hot-start fix. They should know about this.
     
  42. mungo

    mungo New Member

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    The judder on mine came back, was reading another thread and that said try replacing starter motor as when warm the engine won't turn over fast enough and then there is a violent judder, had starter motor replaced today and no more judder 😃
     

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