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Engine Is dead (turbo is dead follow up)

Discussion in 'A4/S4 forum(B5 Chassis)' started by PhilR, Mar 2, 2007.

  1. PhilR
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    PhilR One Ate Tea

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    [Mar 2, 2007]
    Well the worst case scenario has happened,

    My defective turbo from last week has sent parts of itself through the intake system. The new turbo went on yesterday, started the car clatter clatter clatter.

    Must be bent valves ( I hope there is no other damage )

    Ive done a compression test and one cylinder is down on the other 3 sooo

    Im having the weekend off and the head is coming off on monday.

    Anyone want to buy a8 wheels coilovers sports leather etc im sick...i'm joking I think
    #1
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  3. AUDI@WRC
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    AUDI@WRC hows my driving call 0800-EAT-****

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    [Mar 2, 2007]
    sorry to hear that phil it could be a expensive month brother ! :sorry:
    #2
  4. Biglockie
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    Biglockie Aye you know it makes sense

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    [Mar 2, 2007]
    nightmare dude!!!!!
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  5. scrupes
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    scrupes bloody great extension bodger

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    [Mar 2, 2007]
    Oh bugger, you not having much luck lately Phil!

    hope it's not too serious M8.
    #4
  6. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 2, 2007]
    Phil,thats awful. I'd help you sort it,if i were nearer. I hope you fix her !!
    #5
  7. Lowlife
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    Lowlife German Hardcore

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    [Mar 2, 2007]
    Damn that sucks, your car is awesome! Keep the faith. Hope it all works out for you...
    #6
  8. docurley
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    docurley Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Mar 4, 2007]
    Hope things are not too bad.
    #7
  9. PhilR
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    PhilR One Ate Tea

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    [Mar 4, 2007]
    Cheers lads !

    Its coming off after work tomorrow, need to get it into the service postion take the belts off, then hoses then turbo then the head so ill hopefully know whats required this time tomorrow
    #8
  10. PhilR
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    PhilR One Ate Tea

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    [Mar 6, 2007]
    UPDATE

    Did an improvised leakdown test yesterday with a cut down and drilled out sparkplug connected to an airline, basically used this to pressurise the engine.

    Turned the engine by hand until each piston was at top dead centre, (all valves shut) then applied 150psi (roughtly the same as the engine compresses gases to prior to ignition) through the air line to detect any leaks. As suspected, number one is the problem cylinder and it seams i have bent inlet valves in there as the air was escaping from the bore into the intake.

    Basically spent yesterday trying to eliminate as much as possible and getting the car in the service position. Pretty confident now that number one is the problem, this may not have been so obvious without the additional test as sometimes valves can be damaged but look fine when the head is off.

    Tonights plan is to get the head off then the next step is to start stripping the intake system off the car as it all needs cleaning out, inacse there is any more debris from the exhaust turbine.
    #9
  11. Biglockie
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    Biglockie Aye you know it makes sense

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    [Mar 6, 2007]
    At least you have an idea now as to the problem dude, keep us up to date phil.

    chris
    #10
  12. ZeroK66
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    ZeroK66 Member

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    [Mar 6, 2007]
    Bad news... :( - would it not be cheaper to get an engine from a breakers? An ideal opportunity to get an S3/TT/LCR 225 block :D

    Audi to refurb exchanges for a relatively good price. I had this when my 1.8T corrado melted a piston, was about 800 for a refurb exchange TT motor. The standard 180 block would be cheaper I suspect.
    #11
  13. PhilR
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    PhilR One Ate Tea

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    [Mar 6, 2007]
    At the moment pending internal inspection this evening It will be cheaper for me to just replace the bent valves and fit a new headgasket,

    The only advantage of the blocks you mention is the forged crank which as im not running a ton of boost i dont need.
    If the bores are scored i will take it out and have it honed / rebored as needed (im hoping this wont be required)

    The car has always been family owned, so i know the history and that the engine has only done 70k. I dont trust breakers, its a "low mileage" turbo from a breakers that has caused me this problem
    #12
  14. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 6, 2007]
    Sheesh Phil, thats bad,how would i stop that happening to mine? Cos it would be easier to fix before the engine is in,than it would be once it's fitted
    #13
  15. PhilR
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    PhilR One Ate Tea

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    [Mar 7, 2007]
    Only thing i would suggest is a cambelt change, and a new or refurb turbo if you dont know the history of what you have bought

    UPDATE 2

    Took the head off last night and as expected found turbine debris in number one cylinder. It has been flattened by the piston and you can see marks in the piston and the cylinder head where the minute pieces have been stuck between.

    Ran a feeler gauge around the edge of the piston and there seems to be a piece stuck down the side, which has put a tiny scratch on the bore (not worried about this scratch) But i am worried about the possibility of a piece down the side. So im gonna take the sump off and take number one piston out, deburr the damage, retrieve the apparent stuck piece of debris and check the piston rings for damage.

    Biggest thing that is winding me up at the minute is that the engine has to be virtually lifted out to get the sump off, so i might just take it out completely then it will be easier to put the head back on, need to look at the book and the position of the sump again tonight.

    Sooooo still got lots of work to do, not least cleaning the whole intake system and head out, putting 5 new valves into number one, taking the sump off / engine out, piston out then putting the whole thing back together ( and remembering where all the pipes go !!!)

    In a way i was "happy" when i found the bits in the piston i expected, biggest pain of it all is having to do the labour everynight after work, parts shouldnt cost too much to obtain. Watch this space !
    #14
  16. Biglockie
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    Biglockie Aye you know it makes sense

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    [Mar 7, 2007]
    Didn't realise you had to take the lump out to ge tthe sump off, what a ball ache!!!!!

    is there much dmage to the piston face and the cumbustion area??

    is it turbo vanes thats have gone in??
    chris
    #15
  17. PhilR
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    PhilR One Ate Tea

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    [Mar 7, 2007]
    To be honest i didnt realise what was involved in taking the sump off either, read the haynes manual when i got home from the garage last night and they reckon you have to take it off its mounts and hoist it up as high as possible without stretching the hoses, gonna look further tonight.

    Yeah the ends of the exhaust turbine vanes must have clipped the housing when the bearing failed and have come off, I am a little confused how they have ended up in the engine rather than being expelled down the exhaust, as the intake end and exhause end of the turbo are sealed from one another, well they were sealed untill the bearing went.

    They may have went up the exhaust when they have come off at such high speed i dont know, but they are there in the piston ? and ill clean all the intake to be sure
    #16
  18. ZeroK66
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    ZeroK66 Member

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    [Mar 12, 2007]
    They run lower compression (9:1 instead of 9.5:1) and also much stronger con-rods... admittedly not needed on a normal car... but if you were to fit a K04 and chip it you should see 260+ :D - make the whole event worthwhile :p
    #17
  19. Biglockie
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    Biglockie Aye you know it makes sense

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    [Mar 12, 2007]
    Thats the only reason i can think of the centrafugla force must have thrown them back through as you said, thats so unlucky dude.
    #18
  20. PhilR
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    PhilR One Ate Tea

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    [Mar 19, 2007]
    Update

    Dismantled the head and took the piston out last week, sump was a pain to get off really fiddley, hidden bolts through flywheel the lot, had to undo the engine mounts and hoist the engine up as far as poss to get the sump out.

    Took out the damaged piston and deburred all the marks on it checked the rings and put it back, the tiny scratch on the bore isnt anything to worry about and i dare say it will wear off in 10k.

    Put all the valves in a pillar drill last week, and hand turned them clocking with a DTI for runout, bearing in mind the drill chuck had a slight run out (4 thou) anyway they all seamed fine, so re-seated them into the head yesterday, fitted new valve stem oil seals and started putting the valvesprings and collets back in. Was really impressed with progress, thought the small inlet valves were gonna be a nightmare to get back in but it wasnt too bad, so after 7 hours yesterday the head is ready for the cams to go back in.

    So im on the home straight (I hope) need to get the cams back in head on, timing belt on, manifolds on turbo on and start it (gulp)

    Think my dad is getting sick of the car being in his garage now, and sick of helping out (definaelty owe him a few pints), but if we had to pay for the work we have put in so far id be bankrupt, just hope it all works !
    #19
  21. Biglockie
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    Biglockie Aye you know it makes sense

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    [Mar 19, 2007]
    Good stuff, I take it you sorted out another turbo dude. thats not bad the fact there was only a minor scratch. Sounds like the bggest job was the disamantling of the sump from the block. no bottom end damage then?
    #20
  22. PhilR
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    PhilR One Ate Tea

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    [Mar 19, 2007]
    Sump wasnt too bad it was just a pain in the proverbial, why they make things so complicated to remove is beyond me.

    I have the original turbo to go on the car, story goes.... Had a problem with the car not making any boost someone said that it would be the wastegate "penny valve" so bought a second hand turbo, turned out there was nothing wrong with my original turbo , just the wastegate actuator. But for some reason i decided to fit the second hand turbo as a unit rather than just use the actuator, big mistake !

    So i have the original 50k turbo to go back on, with a brandnew actuator

    Bottom end seams fine, everything just looked as you would expect, no oil sludge, obvious wear on bearings etc
    #21
  23. Biglockie
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    Biglockie Aye you know it makes sense

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    [Mar 19, 2007]
    Nice one, think my actuator is on its way out too, will see next week when I get my gauge pods fitted and the boost valve in, More on the pods later!! lol
    #22

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