1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Engine build ideas,

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by S3 Paul, Jun 7, 2009.

  1. S3 Paul
    Offline

    S3 Paul Well-Known Member Regional Rep

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2006
    Messages:
    2,785
    Likes Received:
    75
    [Jun 7, 2009]
    Before we start i know people will redirect me over and over again,
    BUT im looking to build a new engine for S3,
    The idea is to make is "safe" for 400bhp but stay shy of that,
    Ive heard that i need rods, pistons ( with an over bore to give 1850cc?? is this needed?)
    Obviously the other parts will need renewing such as bearings oil pump water pump and all seals.

    There are sooo many rods and pistons, Rather than a picture build thread im asking people for their recomendations and experience with any of the above,

    Do all companys fit full genuine Audi gaskets and seals? head bolts?

    Also... while its out, I will look for a new clutch that will hopefully be upto the job, I use the car daily and if possible would like to avoid a full blown paddle clutch set up ( drove an evo 6 with a tripple plate jobie and it wasnt fun ) Any ideas?

    Thanks people.
    This may look lazy and "use the search function" will get said more than once but time is important,
    #1
  2. Ads

    Ads

    [Sep 18, 2014]

  3. s3_kev
    Offline

    s3_kev Stage2'd!!!!!!

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2008
    Messages:
    1,999
    Likes Received:
    18
    [Jun 7, 2009]
    thought you had just brought a new hybrid turbo?? you must have spent loads already now a big turbo upgrade,
    sorry i cant help you much though as i have never looked into building up my engine
    #2
  4. S3 Paul
    Offline

    S3 Paul Well-Known Member Regional Rep

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2006
    Messages:
    2,785
    Likes Received:
    75
    [Jun 7, 2009]
    You are correct, Ive just shelled out around £2000 to get the turbo and stuff sorted but,,, To be honest im sick of repairing somebody elses things,
    I replace/upgrade something then it puts preasure on something else, We used to call it tuning syndrome but its not fun anymore, its just blindly throwing money at something in order to enjoy it,
    The plan is to rebuild a spare engine i have so i know whats what. i dont want to pay £12000 to build to a spec a will never need but i do want it to be safe for around 400. then either keep it and enjoy or move on to something else.
    #3
  5. S3 Paul
    Offline

    S3 Paul Well-Known Member Regional Rep

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2006
    Messages:
    2,785
    Likes Received:
    75
    [Jun 7, 2009]
    I would ask that chap but im not a member and it wouldnt let me email him.
    Any ideas??
    #4
  6. S3 Paul
    Offline

    S3 Paul Well-Known Member Regional Rep

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2006
    Messages:
    2,785
    Likes Received:
    75
    [Jun 7, 2009]
    Ha ha.
    I use god knows how many forums as it is. I just didnt want to have to pay to use another, just to talk to one bloke.
    #5
  7. MintyS3
    Offline

    MintyS3 Works 60% the time, Everytime.

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,581
    Likes Received:
    4
    [Jun 7, 2009]
    Should be a free signup.

    I would seek advice from someone like badger5.
    #6
  8. voorhees
    Offline

    voorhees Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2005
    Messages:
    15,109
    Likes Received:
    1,181
  9. S3 Paul
    Offline

    S3 Paul Well-Known Member Regional Rep

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2006
    Messages:
    2,785
    Likes Received:
    75
    [Jun 7, 2009]
    Asked me for £10 anual fee
    #8
  10. jcb
    Offline

    jcb Active Member VCDS Map User

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2005
    Messages:
    4,118
    Likes Received:
    13
    [Jun 7, 2009]
    its free, but you don't need to ask Sambo.
    Unless you want to step up your torque then an overbore is overkill.

    bottom end.
    decent rods, you can spend lots or not so much with the same result, scat, IE, brute, puter, eagle etc etc.
    if you change bore then you have a wider choice with 20mm wrist pin on your new pistons. I run supertech 83mm, reasonable, good alloy choice and nice finish.

    if you keep stock pistons they will deal with more power than you can throw at them, hone and new rings with a PROPER run in.

    if you keep your stock crank make sure it is spotless, regrind or polish if not, decent set of main bearings and studs if you want (ARP bolts otherwise are always a good choice).

    new oil and water pumps, fresh seals all round.

    Top end.
    get your head sorted.
    new valve guides, new exhaust valves as a minimum, new intakes as a bonus.
    head studs are always better but can be overkill too.
    ARP do a stud and bolt kit now.
    get a proper gasket kit (victor reinz)

    build that with good ring gaps for forced induction and you will have a solid motor
    #9
  11. S3 Paul
    Offline

    S3 Paul Well-Known Member Regional Rep

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2006
    Messages:
    2,785
    Likes Received:
    75
    [Jun 7, 2009]
    Thanks there mate,
    So i guess alot depends on what we find when the spare motor is strip'd
    I did hear that the S3 pistons are good for around 380bhp? but wasnt sure if that was a bodge way to do it.
    Have you any idea of a ball park price for a good set of rods? and i keep seeing "heavy duty big end bearings" on ebay and the like. are these needed? or good quality ( measured obviously to suite crank) standard ones up to the job? I can get the Victor... kit cheap so im glad about that .
    #10
  12. jcb
    Offline

    jcb Active Member VCDS Map User

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2005
    Messages:
    4,118
    Likes Received:
    13
    [Jun 7, 2009]
    get rods at PAGparts or QED power in the US ($350 Scats will see you fine)
    the stock 1.8t pistons have seen well over 500bhp on BT builds in the US and are more than enough. the only issue is some engines have 19mm wrist pins, you don;t so no drama. 20mm all the way.

    Bob at QED will do you a nice set of calico coated bearings for a good price. wouldn't be buying bearing from eBay.

    I got my spare motor for free with a timing belt shitter.
    bent valves trhoughout, notched pistons etc
    but then as I have replaced crank, rods, pistons, valves etc I only really needed a block
    #11
  13. S3 Paul
    Offline

    S3 Paul Well-Known Member Regional Rep

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2006
    Messages:
    2,785
    Likes Received:
    75
    [Jun 8, 2009]
    Thanks again,
    The engine im going to use is a BAM 2003 i think. i will know more when i strip it. the first job is to get the head off and get that stripped and checked, Do the guides wear on these engines? The head on my car was a fully rebuild item 18 months ago so hopefully one of the 2 will be ok to work with.
    You said to change the valves where would i get these from?
    Im sorry to sound simple but it has been a while since i built my mk2 engines.
    #12
  14. jcb
    Offline

    jcb Active Member VCDS Map User

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2005
    Messages:
    4,118
    Likes Received:
    13
    [Jun 8, 2009]
    I would change guides as a matter of course on any engine rebuild, you are running new valves, may as well run new guides, they are pennies each. you are taliking less than £30 for parts and £50 for a fittment.
    I got supertech valves, again from QED in the US. they are black nitrided Incolnel exhaust valves, not sure what the inlets are.
    you can get ferrera +1mm oversized ones if you fancy emptying your pockets a bit more
    well worth it on any 20v head that is going to see some combat.

    very unlikely your head won;t be up to a rebuild. likewise with the block.
    #13
  15. S3 Paul
    Offline

    S3 Paul Well-Known Member Regional Rep

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2006
    Messages:
    2,785
    Likes Received:
    75
    [Jun 8, 2009]
    Ive just had a chat with a friend... he reckons now is the time to goto 1.9 well think its about 1850cc . Use pouter rods and worsener?? pistons?
    I said from a money point of view i would rather look at the engine once its stripped down. I mean do i NEED to rebore?
    I dont want to cut corners but i dont want a wish list spec just for the sake of it.
    Af far as im aware... the rods are the weak point? Nothing over my power is safe for them, The pistons... obviously i can only use them if i dont bore it out but if the bores are all good and seen to be ok. Or should i go for some higher spec for peace of mind?
    #14
  16. jcb
    Offline

    jcb Active Member VCDS Map User

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2005
    Messages:
    4,118
    Likes Received:
    13
    [Jun 9, 2009]
    pauter and wossner are serious money unless you like the idea of bling in your block.
    you are talking $800 for rods and £5-600 for pistons.
    unless the bores are well gone a good hone and new rings gapped appropriately will be fine.
    if you want or need a rebore and 1.9l then there are lots of pistons out there that will work out cheaper and be just as good. look at supertech or even JE before you start looking at Wossner.

    Rods NEED replacing for any turbo build IMO. they are cheap now with lots of brands competing for the "drop in" market. make sure they have ARP hardware and are forged and you will be fine. Scat, Integrated Engineering, Brute, Eagle etc etc will all set you back less than $400. Pauter and similar spec rods are double that. overkill imo.
    #15
  17. S3 Paul
    Offline

    S3 Paul Well-Known Member Regional Rep

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2006
    Messages:
    2,785
    Likes Received:
    75
    [Jun 9, 2009]
    Thanks again for the feed back matie
    JBS said they had a few problems JE pistons "ratteling"
    I did say to my mate from jbs... im not building it for a posh spec sheet, I want peace of mind, So i can actualy enjoy owning the car, My plan is to run with something around 300 to 360 bhp, So i was thinking rods and a set of pistons... then renew everything else,
    You mentioned changing the valves... other people have said no need under 400bhp? im ok with the idea of doing them as i dont want to have to redo anything at a later date.
    #16
  18. mat20vt
    Offline

    mat20vt Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2007
    Messages:
    449
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Jun 9, 2009]
    set a standard bore pistons, and scat rods. what i have in mine. supertech valve kit too
    #17
  19. S3 Paul
    Offline

    S3 Paul Well-Known Member Regional Rep

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2006
    Messages:
    2,785
    Likes Received:
    75
    [Jun 17, 2009]
    I keep getting blank and disapointed looks when i mention using stock pistons to people i know who either work for vag tuners or engine builders in general.
    If things are needed i have no problem with them but spending my money is easy for others, I have to earn it though !!
    Im not cutting corners and maybe want to see nearish 400 but not over.
    #18
  20. Dani_B19
    Online

    Dani_B19 Audi-sports own special child.

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2008
    Messages:
    7,282
    Likes Received:
    90
    [Jun 17, 2009]
    Sorry to hi jack paul but what are the apy engines good for before uprating?
    #19
  21. HTC
    Offline

    HTC Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2004
    Messages:
    3,413
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Jun 18, 2009]
    Stock pistons are Mahle. They can take 400bhp all day.
    #20
  22. S3 Paul
    Offline

    S3 Paul Well-Known Member Regional Rep

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2006
    Messages:
    2,785
    Likes Received:
    75
    [Jun 22, 2009]
    Right... new question.
    IF i decide to over bore the spare block i have so as to have a new fresh surface in the bores,
    Would people say a 0.5mm over bore or a 1.0mm ?
    The first i think takes the CC to around 1856 and the latter to 1895 or there about,
    My question is would the bigger be to near the limits of the block??
    #21

Share This Page