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****ed my electrics, well the ignition live, is it fused???

Discussion in 'A4/S4 forum(B5 Chassis)' started by Russboy, Jul 9, 2008.

  1. Russboy
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    Russboy Member

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    Basically I’ve hard wired in my road angel today, which ironically is now working!

    I was going to wire off on an ignition live, black and yellow in colour that is quite a common wire on the fusebox as it is the switchable live feed to the wipers, indicators etc. I also wired my reversing camera off of it via the tailgate when I bought the car.

    Not entirely sure how I’ve done it but now with the ignition on there is no power feed to this wire, meaning no indicators, wipers etc.

    The car generally is ok; it’s just the ancillary electrics that are failing.

    Anyone had experience in this area, or am I going to have to go to Audi who will no doubt charge me a fortune, when I suspect that somewhere in the car it should be fused, shouldn’t it?

    If it is fused at all, anyone know where?

    Checked ever fuse in the fuse box, all fine, but my thinking it is further back in the power distribution network. Had a nose up in the dashboard and there are further fuses, such as 50 and 60amp ones, all seem ok. There also some that are in a metal box as such so you cant tell if they are blown on not.

    Really not wanting to take it to Audi when I think (hope!!) it should be a simple fix, just need someone with the knowledge on how to go about it really,

    Cheers,

    Russ
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  2. NHN
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    NHN Modmetractor

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    Mate trace your wiring through, fuse most likely on the side of the dashboard behind the removable panel which is flush & hidden well, if you havnt cut any wires then no reason to suspect wiring, but maybe you've trapped a wire in a trim when replacing, just ideas, but lean towards a fuse, maybe even thrown a fault in ecu which needs clearing with vagcom, but that shouldnt cut any power
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  3. Russboy
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    Russboy Member

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    No, more than just a normal fuse as i've checked all of them.

    Its the switchable igntion live and my thinking is it must run from some sort of distribution block but ultimately it has to be fused somewhere, as all electrics have to. It wont be in the norm place as its not an appliance as such in the car, but more part of the core power network.
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  4. Fraser
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    Fraser Member

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    mobile vehicle electrician time?
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  5. Russboy
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    Russboy Member

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    To be honest I think they'd just spend time searching for "said" fuse or distribution block, where as someone Audi specific, or with a wiring diagram could poss know where to look straight away really.

    Russ
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  6. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    have you looked in the central electrics panel under the dashboard?
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  7. NHN
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    NHN Modmetractor

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    I'll have to check ETKA to see if it has a module for the steering wheel area as this could be gone but unlikely, but worth checking also see if my wiring diagrams show the area well, fuses would be side panel for the norm & any larger ones & relays would be under the steering column where the main power board is, I dont recall any fuses under the hood like the 8P has.

    Should of wired the reverse camera from the reverse light & switched it via a relayed live wire so when reverse engaged the camera was then live, ignition switched not always needed & adding more & more on the circuit can create problems, if its a hidden fuse then maybe you've blown this from the draw of current from the added parts connected.

    But did you actually cut wires or just scotch lock?
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  8. NHN
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    NHN Modmetractor

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    tell me, do the lights come on still when the dial is turned, when you turn the ignition does the DIS light up, when lights are on if they do work can you turn on the raised beam via the left lever forward, does the radio turn on when ignition turned?
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  9. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Either the "x" relay or the ignition switch has gone faulty
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  10. Russboy
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    Russboy Member

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    Reverse camera needed to be on ignition live as you can use it at all times to see whats behind you, useful for when wasting the competition!

    I did actually cut the wire, rather than scotch block it as I had none to hand. But I did make sure the ignition was off whilst cutting, repairing it etc

    Radio, headlight, dis all ok. Basically the wire at fault is just a signal feed sent to the fuse box to the indicators etc to say, ok the ignition is now on so im supplying you power.

    Tell me more about the relay? If it were the ignition switch would it still run etc etc.
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  11. NHN
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    NHN Modmetractor

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    Ah so its not for reversing then, lol

    The ignition is never always of, only way to fully turn it of is battery disconnection, did you check the wire before cutting to see if it had any current/voltage on?

    yeah but the DIS, headlights, radio all work also from the switched ignition feed aswell so to stop the only things on the steering column would suggest a possible signalling wire like a kline maybe as I dont think yours was a canbus was it for that year?

    I've played with ignition recently on an 8P when figuring out the wiring for te RS4 start button for the 8P boys, but that used canbus so it has a steering wheel control module that ran everything in the column, so had one power feed & then the rest were canbus/diagnostic wires to tell things to turn on etc, which is what I suspect yours could be given the localisation of your faults which are all exclusively on the column yes????

    Strange, but it could be a relay but unlikely, also I dont think its the ignition barrel, but ignition barrel on the 8P had about 6 wires & different positions switched different parts on, so key in did one, position 1 another & start car another, seems you have done something purely for the column, would help if you had VAGCOM aswell cause that would also show you comms errors & point you in the right direction aswell.
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  12. Russboy
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    Russboy Member

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    Lost as of what to do next to be honest.
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  13. NHN
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    NHN Modmetractor

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    ok, Russ have you got vagcom? if not post for someone in your area, I would trace back your wiring & double check everything & also double check the fuses, I will in meantime check if it has a control module on column.

    Byzan does it have a steering column control module as per b6, 7 etc?
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  14. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    B5's are pre can bus iirc, so no module. Iirc. The ignition switch failing can have all sorts of problems as there is more than one circuit switched one/off with it.

    The X relay is a relay that controls the main ignition on/off as the load is too high for a simple switch to deal with. I will find you which one it is, but with the knee bolster off its one of the evident relays facing you on the panel
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  15. Russboy
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    Russboy Member

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    No vagcom im afraid.

    In better weather, it was pi55ing down today, tomorrow i'll attempt to trace the wires back.

    Can't really imagine its anything to do with the wiring I have now added as that is running off of a different circuit and when I remove it it makes no difference.

    Got a banging headache now just thinking about it!
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  16. Russboy
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    Russboy Member

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    Just to clarify one turn 1 of the key the radio etc works, turn 2 just produces the dash lights, so it's the turn 2 live feed from the ignition that is breaking down somewhere.
    In my bones I know its a simple fix, the fecker will be diagnosing it!!
    Now been told to look for a relay with 18 on the front as it controls indicators, wipers etc, sound any good?
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  17. dieselfitter251
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    dieselfitter251 Blow ma own trumpet?

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    Revert to a normal state, remove the extras to see if you've truely fecked it up. If all is ok then you may want to try a different feed for you supply.
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  18. NHN
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    NHN Modmetractor

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    Byzan so we're clear to help him further which position on yours makes the column electrics work that would help us a bit & also when the column starts working is this the same position when the DIS starts to light up/radio or extra turn for dis etc?
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  19. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    when the "ignition " is switched on there is 2 circuits iirc that are controlled with the switch. So i think for whatever reason the 2nd circuit isnt switching on, its either the relay or the ignition switch, i cant find the pic of the relay to show where it is, its one of the accessable ones.
    I would drop the knee panel and put my hands on the panel and feel to see if anyone of them activates when the ignition is switched on. may give us a starting point ?? unless you drop the column cover and probe the wires indavidually to check and see whats being switched on or off etc ect

    Oh and one click for radio, and 2nd click for everything else, then 3rd pos for starter. The reason i favour the ignition switch is that its a common failiure on the B%, i believe that there was a recall for faulty units early in the life of the B5
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  20. NHN
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    NHN Modmetractor

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    I can actually see your point TBH & not unheard of so feasible, but its funny before he touched the wiring it worked 100%, now it doesnt & also the DIS works along with headlights so 2nd position seems to be ok, so points towards wiring, but it could be wiring on another circuit that is made live by the 2nd turn as if its like the 8P then it could be one of the number of circuits he has disturbed from the barrel inadvertedly, barrel actually switches several circuits on the different positions about 3-5 in total, so could just be he's done something to an additional circuit switched by pos 2 that has shorted the column wiring & from the symptons most likely would you agree.

    The barrel on the 8P has 6 wires, yellow feeds the barrel, red is the start circuit made live by starter turn & rest seem to be circuits switched by different key positions, inserted, pos 1, start car etc etc.

    Maybe I missed it but where exactly did you cut the wire, actually under the column or by the radio? cause if it was nowhere near the column then it could be hardware & if that circuit was live when cut u never know what its done, if was near the column then could have accidentally pulled a wire loose or broken the strands inside the loom, just ideas as it really must be as you say something ever so simple given its not been a fault before & only appeared after playing with wiring, you didnt do any mechanical stuff so given these comments unless you had issues beforehand I dont think its ignition, but I am always welcomed to be proven wrong as its a learning curve anyway, life.
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  21. Russboy
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    Russboy Member

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    You read my mind. Up at this un earthly hour, 6 am is when you own a pub and get to bed at 1am!!, to do a few tests from the ignition itself.

    Cut the wire directly on the back of the fuse box as I wanted to run the feed from there to keep it all tidy, so at no point have Itouched the steering column or even anywhere near it.

    My money is on the ignition switch or a relay being up the duff

    Decided not to run it off of that signal anyway in the end, plus even when taking out the inline fuse on the new equipment it still makes no difference. So something somewhere along the line has died, just a question of what!
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  22. Russboy
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    Russboy Member

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    Right stripped it down a bit further and when you turn the key to position 2 the twin yellow/black cable you see from the ignition is sending out a live signal. So I think that means the ignition is not at fault.

    [​IMG]

    My suspision is that where are the fuses are:

    [​IMG]

    Underneath and on the far left are the same cables again (below the relay marked 204):

    [​IMG]

    Now I suspect (correct me if im wrong) that with the key in poisition 2 that these should live, which would indicate a breakdown somewhere between the ignition and here, again pointing to a fuse or relay.
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  23. Russboy
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    Russboy Member

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    Ther lay marked in the pic with 370 (part no 8D0 951 263) gives quite a kick when you move the key from position 1 to 2 and I think that is at fault.

    It's def got an ignition live coming into it, but not going out.

    When I stripped the cover off and bridged it the wipers etc all fire up.

    Also the yellow/black cables below the fuse marked 204 when I bridge it then go live, as I suspected earlier in the thread.

    Mate works in the parts department for Audi so he's bringing one home with him and hopefully plug that in and see what happens.

    Fingers crossed!!
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  24. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Good work , thats the X relay as stated before. Its just a pain you had to strip the steering column to eliminate that. let us know :icon_thumright:
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  25. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    when i needed an ignition live feed for the stereo i used an ignition live from the 75X pin on that central electrics module - its the third or fourth nut along iirc. then fed that into a relay over the stereo's original live feed to produce the switched signal
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  26. Russboy
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    Russboy Member

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    All sorted, perseverance saved the day, and my wallet!!

    Cost me about £10 and a fair bit of time, so a result in the end.

    A big thanks for peoples input on here, especially Byzan A4 & Nigel Hobdon, decided with your wise words to carry on. There's a cold frosty beer or two waiting for you if you ever pop into Epsom where my pub is, obvioulsy only if you're not driving!

    Cheers Guys,

    Russ
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  27. NHN
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    NHN Modmetractor

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    Hey hats of to Byzan for guessing right, but just be aware there are number of feeds of ignition fella not just one per position for future reference, its just weird huh it went of when you just cut the wire, lol, oh well fixed so who cares, good one.
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