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Dual mass or single mass sachs for s3?

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by Kelza, Jan 7, 2012.

  1. Kelza
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    Kelza MODERATOR Staff Member Moderator

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    #41
  2. Kelza
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    Kelza MODERATOR Staff Member Moderator

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    Hi becks the flywheel is about 7 kg ,and clutch,plate ,and bearing are about the same in weight will measure the boxes just now...
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  3. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    Engaging gears at high rpm was what I was told on the other forum although the Sachs paddle clutch also has that.

    The problem is finding enough people using these clutches to get a decent user base.

    The Spec hasn't so far had any bad reports plus it will handle the right torque.

    Looking at the Spec and that Southbend,they appear very similar in materials and limits.

    Should have stuck to Stage3?... No!
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2012
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  4. Kelza
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    Kelza MODERATOR Staff Member Moderator

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    Hi alex i can remember someone selling a southbend clutch on here about 8 months ago ,i wonder if its in a s3 as we speak , yeah sorry i heard that as well about engaging gears thought that was the 4 paddle sachs , jeesszo what clutch to buy .. What about the 6 paddle sachs ...what sort of clutch do amd use in there golf track car?
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  5. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    The BTCC car has a Sadev sequential box so it's very different.

    The problem we've run up against is finding the right combination of a clutch that works and still handles the torque.

    Paddle clutches can be pigs to use on the road and the Spec Stg3+ has a full plate carbon metallic clutch as opposed to 4 or 6 pucks so it "should" be the best option for mine.
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2012
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  6. Kelza
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    Kelza MODERATOR Staff Member Moderator

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  7. akash_sky1
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    akash_sky1 Active Member

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    In the USA many people running big turbo TFSIs go with Southbend and they seem to do the job. Look on VW Vortex forum . JBS can order them for you I think.
    #47
  8. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    Saw that already thanks....pretty much settled on a Spec 3+.
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  9. HEKTOR
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    HEKTOR Member

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  10. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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  11. inialation
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    inialation New Member

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    Hi All,

    Long time reader, first time poster. I have a 2007 Jetta 2.0 TDi BKD 140 tuned to 230 BHP with a completely custom GT1749VA modified to Hybrid 1752, SACHS 5 PADDLE Clutch Disc, and SACHS DMF with stock pressure plate.

    The Car had the Uprated clutch installed in July 2011, and is starting to show signs of failing as of Today. The Car I bought in May 2011 with 95000 Miles and is currently at 158000 Miles. The Car seen literally a mountain of abuse last year (2012). Four Track Days at Mondello here in Ireland where I drove to the track almost four hours away, raced all day around the track and drove home again, and one Drag Strip Day at Straightliners Enniskillen where I done the 1/4 Mile in 16.09 Seconds with a 60 ft time of 2.4 Seconds where the Car was producing only 180 BHP. The Car skipped the timing and done no damage amazingly, about a month after the drag day. I done ten runs back to back with no breaks in between each run.

    In January of this year (2013) the cylinder head cracked between the valve seats and god only knows where else, and yes the famous BKD porous cylinder head issues again LOL. I got away with disappearing coolant for roughly around 5 months before the car finally gave up and boiled the head of itsself. Thea head gasket looked remarkably well for the abuse it got, not even a single crack in it.

    I purchased a brand new genuine complete cylinder from volkswagen with two brand new camshafts, seals and bolts etc...and havent looked back once since.

    The Car is very capable of doing 150 MPH, has done that many 140 MPH runs than I can remember, many many many full power take off's from 2000 RPM, and will absolutely destroy Civic Type R's, pull away at top speed and keep pulling away. The Car is boosting at 2 BAR of boost.

    I think that the SACHS DMF is the safer daily driver option, especially with SACHS Paddle Clutch Disc, and will take a mountain of abuse. I think that the uprated Single Mass Flywheel by SACHS would do little or no bother in the long run as a Daily driver, but I would be very skeptical about it as a daily driver, and more importantly vibrations, there is only one way to find out for sure, but I'm sure it would not let you down before taking a massive amount of abuse.
    #51
  12. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    I think you're right in most terms,and especially if you're considering a diesel,where the DMF makes a big difference in damping out some of the engine related vibrations,but it depends very much on how much torque your engine runs,as to whether or not a DMF or SMF setup is the best.

    We thought long and hard about it on mine,and eventually decided on the SMF system as the torque limits on the DMF systems we could buy were below what the car currently runs.
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  13. inialation
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    inialation New Member

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    Hows it going S3Alex?

    It should be noted that People talking about Solid and Single Mass Flywheels, there appears to be a distinct difference, and I think anyone going to power over 280 BHP, and depending on the RPM's one is going to be revving to should all be taken into account. I really think that if something did go badly wrong, the engine could be badly damaged, but have yet to see this happen. The other thing I have learned that tuning a diesel can be like a very temper mental child. They have to be watched at every turn about.

    Do you think my Jetta got a hard enough life yet LOL? I'm looking at going above 300 BHP sometime this year all going well LOL....
    #53
  14. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    All good so far!

    Again I agree....diesels are so different from petrol turbos,and getting big bhp numbers is difficult,but the torque is amazing.

    I've driven lots of diesels,but not tuned any,and tuned a lot of petrol turbos,but the vibration characteristics are different also,and the use of DMFs has altered that so much.
    #54
  15. phil76
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    phil76 Member

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    Great another post to send me mad,mine has required a clutch in it since i had it mapped in october but with the run of **** weather we've had i have just put it off as driving normally the car drives sweet and it was only when you gave it the beans it slipped in higher revs 3 and 4th gears,but now the weather is better i am going to get it done and wouldnt mind giving it a go on the strip at the pod when we go to the bug jam but i was all for the single mass but i know a few what have had issues not with the engine chatter but more of a groan / vibration when coming off the power slowing down,which doesnt seem only to be flywheel related so unless something else isnt getting the dampening effect no longer with the loss of the DMF and the vibration/rattle is transferred who knows ?

    so i thought sod it then i will go for the sach DMF set up but now your all throwing a spanner in the works about that decision
    But your all right what you say its not a 2minute cheap job to do if things arent right and clutch makers are pretty much like turbo suppliers/makers where if there is a problem i dont think they will ever agree its there products fault so it would be up to us the customer to pay the bills again if not happy.

    From what i can see the Spec clutch is also a SMF set up it this correct ? and like Alex i have heard some not great reports on south bend clutches even though another comment i read above is correct a lot of american forums rave about them,
    so basically now please help
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  16. S3Alex
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    S3Alex Rarely neutral

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    The Spec is indeed an SMF setup,but very light and easy to use,but will make a bit of noise at idle.

    Mine is a Spec Stg3+,which is a full face carbon ceramic clutch,and is easier around town than the paddle clutches,but also with higher torque limits.
    #56

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