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Dual mass flywheel conversion

Discussion in 'A4/S4 forum(B5 Chassis)' started by Bradderz_1988, Apr 1, 2011.

  1. Bradderz_1988
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    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    [Apr 1, 2011]
    Any one recommend one not that pricey got quote from eurocarparts £388 Inc the dreaded for a valeo unit seen some on flea bay for loads of 1.8t TT's and A3 's but will they fit mine any suggestions ?? Cars as below (sig). Cheers
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  3. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 1, 2011]
    TT/A3 flywheel is completely different.

    From what i can see, your options are either:

    1Z TDI flywheel and clutch
    1Z TDI flywheel modified to take S2 Clutch
    A flywheel from TTVRacing that takes a 240mm S4 clutch.
    ECS Racings flywheel that takes S4 clutch.

    I've put a 1Z flywheel and clutch on my old FWD A4 and its fine, but i've no idea how it would handle getting driven hard. Parents who now have the car think it slips now and then, but then they cant seem to prompt it to slip on demand so not really sure whats going on.
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  4. Bradderz_1988
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    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    [Apr 1, 2011]
    Will this do of eBay Item numbers - 330357066050 ?? Would you recommend it ?? Thanks for info.
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  5. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 2, 2011]
    No, afaik a sharan is a transverse engine, same as the A3/golf.

    The flywheel needs to come from a Audi 80 TDi, as well as some VERY early (95-96) A4 TDI's and some petrol engined Audi 80's as well.

    I got mine from a breaker on ebay that had an Audi 80 TDI, then baught the clutch for a 1995 A4 TDi. I can probably dig out the part number of the clutch if you go that route.
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  6. Bradderz_1988
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    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    [Apr 2, 2011]
    Yeah if you can mate that would be great any solutions at the minute would be great it's on it's last legs on the clutch so might aswel change to solid when I do it no doubt the dual mass will be knackerd.
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  7. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 2, 2011]
    Clutch i used was Sachs part number 3000 722 002

    As i say, no guarantees that it will hold up to a harsh driven 1.8T, as its designed for a 90hp TDI, but it seems fine a year down the line in the FWD (which is remapped)
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  8. Bradderz_1988
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    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    [Apr 15, 2011]
    Right have found a fast road clutch and solid flywheel kit for a 1.8T AEB APU etc was wandering if this would fit my 1.8TQS (AJL) I presume it would but then again Id rather make sure !!
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  9. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 15, 2011]
    Yeh, AJL and AEB are identical.

    Where from?
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  10. Bradderz_1988
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    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    [Apr 16, 2011]
    It's on flea bay from Lancashire looks a decent one aswel as it looks like it's from a clutch specialist called techniclutch and they offer 4 year/40k miles warranty and it's £350 but they do best offer so may get I cheaper !! its e in my watch list so i can get it after I've got my turbo :)
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  11. Jason.s
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    Jason.s Active Member

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    [Apr 16, 2011]
    NOOO dont get Technicluch please!!!!! You will regret it seriously. Search google they are shockingly bad and so is the company. DONT buy whatever you do!!!!!!
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  12. Bradderz_1988
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    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    [Jun 16, 2011]
    Thread revival so I don't have to create another lol

    Right after a long think as what I'm going to do on the clutch side of things when I get the turbo sorted that is, I'm going for the ECS steel flywheel and S4 clutch, but I'm wandering if my DMF has the pick up ring for the crank sensor and if so how will I get round this as the ECS flywheel looks to only have teeth for the starter motor ??
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  13. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 16, 2011]
    Pickup ring is on the crank itself on a 4 cylinder.

    I just got my 1Z solid flywheel back from the machine shop yesterday. I'd post some pics but my fileserver is currently broken.

    I was going to buy a complete S2 3B clutch from GSF, however it turned out to be out of stock. I started scouring the parts catalogs and ebay, and discovered that a 2.8 TDI VW LT van uses the same cover plate as the S2 3B, and found a complete Sachs clutch kit for the LT on ebay for £60. The friction plate and releaser arent any use, so i'll put them back on ebay and perhaps get something back.
    For the friction plate, again ebay came to the rescue with a plate from a B6 S4 V8. Its 240mm, and has the requisite sprung hub. Genuine Audi part and only cost me £50

    Total costs so far look something like this:

    Audi 2.0 Coupe flywheel - £30 (ebay, used)
    Clutch Cover - £60 (ebay, new)
    Clutch Plate - £50 (ebay, new)
    Flywheel machining - £95

    Total so far: £235

    I need to buy a release bearing, but all in i should have spent less than an ECS flywheel alone, plus S4 clutch kits themselves are ~£200.
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  14. AR-rkon
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    AR-rkon BZZZZ.... caffeine fueled electrical engineer Regional Rep

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    [Jun 16, 2011]
    Sorry to hijack, but does anyone know what other engines the APU shares its DMF with? i think its AEB/ANB/APU/ARK/AWT unless im mistaken?
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  15. Bradderz_1988
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    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    [Jun 16, 2011]
    No worries we all have questions that need answers lol

    Are you straight swapping the DMF ??
    I would consider going solid with one of the suggestions Aragon mentioned at the start of the thread.
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  16. AR-rkon
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    AR-rkon BZZZZ.... caffeine fueled electrical engineer Regional Rep

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    [Jun 16, 2011]
    Its just cost. I can get a half decent (low mileage) DMF 2nd hand for about £50-100, and a clutch kit for £50-70 trade. so at worst, £170ish. Also im not sure if the 80 TDi swap that aragorn proposed would stand up to the abuse that the car regularly gets (plus the remap in the near future), oh and are the DMF bolts "Spline" or "Ribe" heads?

    But that said, im still not 100% that the clutch is at fault, as i cant get it to slip "on demand" so to speak. Just does it when it feels like it.
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  17. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 16, 2011]
    I too was wary about the TDI clutch handling the abuse, which is why i've had the flywheel redrilled to take a 240mm clutch, which should be more than up to the task!
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  18. AR-rkon
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    AR-rkon BZZZZ.... caffeine fueled electrical engineer Regional Rep

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    [Jun 16, 2011]
    Cheers, is there a definative test to se if it is the clutch at fault?
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  19. Bradderz_1988
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    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    [Jun 16, 2011]
    Mine needs doing as the bite is right at the top of the pedal and think the dual mass is on it's way as at high revs when changing gear u can feel the flywheel spring and the power goes then it comes back as the flywheel springs back !
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  20. AR-rkon
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    AR-rkon BZZZZ.... caffeine fueled electrical engineer Regional Rep

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    [Jun 16, 2011]
    :3sadwalk: Arse... that sounds too similar to mine. so it does seem its more the DMF than clutch...
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  21. Bradderz_1988
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    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    [Jun 16, 2011]
    Try this rconn on eBay see if it tickles your fancy :)

    Item - 320704507051
    #20
  22. NineNails
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    NineNails Proud sponsor of the snack food industry

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    [Jun 16, 2011]
    Every Audi I've ever driven has had it's biting point right at the top of the pedal, like last 5 or 10mm and I've driven them like it for thousands of miles, so I'd say that alone isn't an indication of impending failure. Just thought I'd say like
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  23. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 16, 2011]
    Yeh, they go like that when the pressure plate springs age.

    If you want to rule out the clutch do the following:

    engage handbrake hand, rev engine to 4k, select 4th, feed clutch in quickly but not harshly, adding throttle to try to keep the revs up.

    If the clutch is good the engine will stall. If its knackered it'll just sit there at 4k+
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  24. AR-rkon
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    AR-rkon BZZZZ.... caffeine fueled electrical engineer Regional Rep

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    [Jun 17, 2011]
    Just a thought, but is there a flywheel that will fit the 1.8t, but use the clutch from a 1.9tdi (110) AFN engine, as I have a brand new one in the living room that I never fitted???
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  25. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 17, 2011]
    I spect the AFN clutch will fit the stock flywheel
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  26. AR-rkon
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    AR-rkon BZZZZ.... caffeine fueled electrical engineer Regional Rep

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    [Jun 17, 2011]
    Really??? Would it handle the torque though?
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  27. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 18, 2011]
    No idea, as standard the TDI is more torquey than the 1.8T though...
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  28. AR-rkon
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    AR-rkon BZZZZ.... caffeine fueled electrical engineer Regional Rep

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    [Jun 19, 2011]
    Ok, so im trying to get the tools together (that i dont have) to do this job...

    figured out what most of the fixings are ( clutch plate, starter etc...) but what are:

    The driveshafts???
    I see in some places saying they are M8 Spline drive, some say Double Hex, some say T40 12pt Torx??? (dont think that even exists) and some 8mm TripleSquare? WTF???

    And what are the flywheel to crank bolts (drive and size)?

    Any clarity from anyone?
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  29. AR-rkon
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    AR-rkon BZZZZ.... caffeine fueled electrical engineer Regional Rep

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    [Jun 19, 2011]
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  30. Bradderz_1988
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    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    [Jun 19, 2011]
    ha thats a joke ! i wouldnt pay 50 quid for it !!
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  31. AR-rkon
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    AR-rkon BZZZZ.... caffeine fueled electrical engineer Regional Rep

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    [Jun 19, 2011]
    theres a couple of others on there for between £20-50, waiting to find out mileage. May have one if they're low enough. and a new clutch kit.

    Biggest issue i have found is getting the solid flywheel and getting it machined to fit a 240mm.
    #30
  32. Bradderz_1988
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    Bradderz_1988 Dont replace it, Upgrade it !!

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    [Jun 19, 2011]
    I don't like dual mass flywheel especially being on petrols I see them day in day out failing on citroen diesels at work I no we have german cars and there Citroen but they don't appeal to me, so am going for the ECS one as it gets driven harsh quite alot of the time I was surprised the other day aswel as I got 145 out of it and it still wanted more :)
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  33. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 20, 2011]
    "Spline" and "Triplesquare" are very similar though not identical. The difference is in the angle of the splines. Triplesquare is also known as XZN.

    They will be 8mm XZN, as most "Spline" fixings on german cars are infact XZN and not spline.

    The flywheel bolts are 10 or 12mm XZN, some cars have a dual purpose bolt, with hex or double hex round the outside, and XZN in the middle.

    Just buy a decent XZN set and you'll be fine.
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  34. AR-rkon
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    AR-rkon BZZZZ.... caffeine fueled electrical engineer Regional Rep

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    [Jun 20, 2011]
    ok, cheers.

    I suppose it doesnt matter what body the flywheel/clutch kit is for (coupe/saloon/avant?) as long as its an SMF from a 1.9tdi early a4 or 80 and the clutch kit from an S2 (about 91-95 my?)

    Just dont want to but the wrong parts.

    cheers
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  35. Jason.s
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    [Jun 20, 2011]
    91-93 S2 clutch. Any later than that and it moved onto the ABY engine which has DMF`s where as the earlier 3B`s have SMF`s which you want.
    #34
  36. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 20, 2011]
    Its even tighter than that i think, ~1990-1991.

    My flywheel came from a 2.0 petrol 80 coupe, and was identical to the TDI one i had before.

    I'll sort some photos later.
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  37. Jason.s
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    Jason.s Active Member

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    [Jun 20, 2011]
    Actually looking at ETKA 3B engine is listed up to 95 surprisingly
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  38. AR-rkon
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    AR-rkon BZZZZ.... caffeine fueled electrical engineer Regional Rep

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    [Jun 20, 2011]
    have we got a part no for the flywheel and s2 clutch?

    026105269L (flywheel) is the only one i can find, i take it its off an 1Z/AHU engine?
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2011
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  39. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 20, 2011]
    You can find the sachs part numbers for the clutch on their web catalogue.
    #38
  40. Jason.s
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    [Jun 20, 2011]
    Most of the info is on my thread on this very subject a few pages back
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  41. AR-rkon
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    AR-rkon BZZZZ.... caffeine fueled electrical engineer Regional Rep

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    [Jun 21, 2011]
    Yep, got it. I've "borrowed" your pics to take to a couple of machine shops I know to get a cost estimate before I buy a smf and clutch. If too expensive may find alternative options. Would it be feasible to weld up a DMF to make it an SMF? lol (joking by the way)
    #40

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