DSG (Top Gear mag latest take)

[Amchlolor]

And the scary thing there is that the Vectra is better built. We looked at a 9-3 before we bought the A4. It was trully appalling inside for a "premium" brand car. Had a Vectra hire car shortly after and it was definitely better built.

Still wouldn't use my own money to buy a new Vectra. 50% depreciation in the first year is scary. Could stand the indicator/wiper stalk operation either.

Yeah,I look at the 9-3 too.
As you say,the interior is shocking.

With regard to Vectra depreciation,those sorts of figures are very misleading.
They always take into account full RRP.
Who the hell pays full RRP for a Vectra ?
No-one.
So the depreciation figures become a nonsense.
An example for you.
My Bro-in-law bought a diesel one for use as a taxi about 6 months ago.
Full RRP was something like £16900,but he got it for £12000.
What you pay new doesn't affect re-sale values too much though.
So,in three years time,it'll still be worth roughly the same whether you paid £16900 or £12000.
Say,for the sake of argument,it's worth £6000.
Suddenly,the fact you only paid £12000 makes your depreciation percentage (50% over three years) on a par with the likes of Audi !
A much better real-life indicator of depreciation is to llok on Autotrader and see what 3 year old examples of the car you want are going for.
Factor in what you're actually paying for the car and you get a proper,real-world,depreciation figure.

I've never found the push to work/push to cancel indicator stalk a problem in Vauxhalls.I find it becomes intuitive after a while,but bikes operate a similar system,so it's not alien to me.

 

[marriedblonde]

The new 3 series uses a wierd indicator stork thingy as well..

 

[Caesium]

My other half had a vectra with that stalk problem too, it would actually put me off buying one, its such a crap idea.

 

[baldrick]

To add my twopenneth to this thread, I have just got an A3 Sportback 2.0T S-Line DSG having come from a 156 V6 2.5.

I also test drove a 159 - they only had the 1.9JTDm.

Compared with the 156 with the Veloce trim which includes the sports suspension the 159 felt too soft. Getting back in the 156 it felt taut and sporty, the 159 could have been any ordinary saloon, especially with the characterless if adequately powerful 1.9 diesel. To me the 159 feels a bit more aimed at execs than alfisti.

The A3 is firm but rides well enough for me and more importantly the wife, and feels a more natural replacement for the 156 in terms of sportiness.

The 159 is a nice car but feels a bit less Italian than the 156 and rather bloated like the 3 series BMW, hence the move to an Audi as a company car felt less like moving to the dark side!

Purchasing my own car would have ended up costing me more and I didn't feel compelled to do it like I did when I opted out and got the 156.

The 159 TI is coming soon and this will be a bit stiffer and lowered.

Personally I like the DSG mated to the 2.0T petrol. The engine is great though it sounds at its sportiest before it gets to the red line so I dont have an issue with the box changing up before it gets there. The Alfa used to hit the rev limiter in rapid overtaking in 2nd very easily.

I agree though it is at its smoothest on low rev down changes in D mode and tend to use this around town and the paddles on the open road.

I have not driven the TDI DSG to comment if this combination works less well, the only other vehicle being the same 2.0T engine DSG combo in the Golf GTI.

Cheers
baldrick

 

[Macduff]

Yeah,I look at the 9-3 too.
As you say,the interior is shocking.

With regard to Vectra depreciation,those sorts of figures are very misleading.
They always take into account full RRP.
Who the hell pays full RRP for a Vectra ?
No-one.
So the depreciation figures become a nonsense.

True. Couldn't bring myself to buy a Vectra though.

I've never found the push to work/push to cancel indicator stalk a problem in Vauxhalls.I find it becomes intuitive after a while,but bikes operate a similar system,so it's not alien to me.

I'm also a biker (VFR) but still found the system odd. Maybe just need to drive it for longer. I also don't like the pull-pull high/low beam system that our Lupo and my Mum's Rover had. Much prefer the push-pull system that everyone else uses.

 

[A3_3.2_S-Line]

"But I fear the DSG wouldn't impress lil' Lewis (Hamilton). See, even in Sport mode, the Leon won't let you get near the 7,100rpm rev limit. No matter how hard you try to take control of the shifts (the DSG cleverly works out how actively you're managing the gears and when to shift to auto' mode), it still overrides as soon as you get anywhere near the redline.

In fact, it's always just too keen to drop back into automatic mode and make all the shifting decisions for you. Very sensible from an efficiency/engine wear point of view, but it's all a bit nannying"

Just a quick note on this.
The DSG's in the Seats do not use the same software as VW and Audi cars. The Leon DSG does not even have paddles behind the stearing wheel!

One of the Top Gear or Evo Lifers cars I cant remeber which is a Leon TDi DSG and the chap that runs it has confirmed noticeable differenace to his DSG compared to the one in a R32

 

[Amchlolor]

To add my twopenneth to this thread, I have just got an A3 Sportback 2.0T S-Line DSG having come from a 156 V6 2.5.
I also test drove a 159 - they only had the 1.9JTDm.
Compared with the 156 with the Veloce trim which includes the sports suspension the 159 felt too soft. Getting back in the 156 it felt taut and sporty, the 159 could have been any ordinary saloon, especially with the characterless if adequately powerful 1.9 diesel. To me the 159 feels a bit more aimed at execs than alfisti.

The 159 is softer than the 156,but it's deliberately so.
The 156 was often criticised for it's poor ride,which I actually never found a problem really (mine had the sportpack II set-up).
My Audi's S-line suspension has all the compliance of a skateboard though.
The 159 is supposed to be a more 'mature/exec' car,so the fact you found it to be this way shows Alfa have obviously got it right.
I would say the 3 series handles better than the 159,but the 159 is the best FWD exec saloon.
It's better than the A4,Saab 9-3 and Honda Accord.
What seperates the 159 from the rest of the FWD diesel exec saloons is the looks.
No other exec saloon makes me sit up and notice like the 159 does.
My bro-in-law (taxi driver) was speaking to a woman taxi driver up here,who chose an Alfa red 159 1.9jtd.
Coolest taxi on the block !
She reports no problems with it at all.

 

[baldrick]

The 159 is supposed to be a more 'mature/exec' car,so the fact you found it to be this way shows Alfa have obviously got it right.

It is this direction that slightly disappoints me though. My last four cars have been Alfas and some of the character seems to have been lost in the latest generation in seeking to move into a different market. I am sure it is all good economic sense but then Alfas were never cars to be chosen by the head.

Cheers
baldrick

 

[Amchlolor]

I am sure it is all good economic sense but then Alfas were never cars to be chosen by the head.

True.
I don't think they've completely sold out though.
We can sleep soundly in the knowledge that we're not the motoring equivalent of Chelsea supporters.
We're not johnny-come-lately's or glory hunters !