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DSG...should i be worried?

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by 1animal1, Jan 14, 2011.

  1. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!!

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    Due to a recent thread in the 8L section and as a direct result of this link VWVortex.com - The "Unofficial" DSG Issues Thread (kindly provided by Funkyjunky)

    Should i be worried about DSG's? i have just found from Audi that i can only extend a warranty by an extra year assuming it wasn't extended upon purchase.

    regards....a very worried buyer :(:sos:
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  2. paddy
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    paddy Audi=No fault code, no idea

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    Car/milage/service history ??
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  3. Ads
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    Ads License to drive

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    There are plenty of people with DSG that haven't had problems. I guess it's like anything.... people only pipe up when they're not happy.

    There aren't many threads on here about problematic DSGs.
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  4. paddy
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    paddy Audi=No fault code, no idea

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    have done 50k on my DSG, oil change at 38k. No worries.
    I would think that 30%+ Audi's are now DSG and that is going up. Mitsubishi offer it in the Evo now and so do Porsche and even Ford/Vol;vo etc. Its the way forward and on an Audi will probably out last the Turbo radiator ECU, timing chains and most other parts from my experience :)......lol :lmfao:
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  5. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!!

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    Pads...assume 58/59 plate 8P DSG....10-40k

    problem i foresee is that DSG wasn't on the 8P S3 until 58 plate F/L cars..so failure rate is always going to be low (unless its french!!) - but then you A3 boys haven't had many issues either making me think, what the hells wrong with these V Dubs!!
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  6. paddy
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    paddy Audi=No fault code, no idea

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    I would not worry at all mate to be honest if you were to worry about possible problems on any car you would never buy one...Even push bikes brake :)
    The Audi unit has been around for a long time and is well proven, as aythreee says these boards can very misleading because you might hear about a dozen people with problems but not the 200k who have no problem at all. I have been happily pumping 250 bhp through my DSG for 6 years and it is as sweet now as the day i bought it. Even if you were really unlucky its not the end of the world. Audi replace the box as a sealed exchange unit. Go for it, its a brilliant gear box.
    For what it is worth i would not buy another Audi without a DSG box !
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2011
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  7. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!!

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    cheers PAddy, very helpful and inspiring ;)

    no seriously, that really helps... good example too with you owning for that long. I know what you mean regards only hearing the bad issues and the fact that nobody on here has had much cause for complaint, only makes me feel more confident.

    I assume the VW box is the same as what your specced with? or thereabouts....read somewhere that the 6 speed being used is infact the older model, the 7 speed being the more upto date.
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  8. circleswim
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    circleswim Lacks Car Funds...

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    I've owned mine for 13 months, with it remapped for 10 months. Done 29k miles since I've had it and it's at 68k miles now. Not had an issue with DSG, in fact I'm very fond of it!
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  9. paddy
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    paddy Audi=No fault code, no idea

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    The 6 speed is DSG the 7 speed is S-tronic but its just a name. The new RS3 has a different version again i hear.
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  10. sub39h
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    sub39h Active Member

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    +1
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  11. sub39h
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    sub39h Active Member

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    nah Audi officially call it "S-tronic". all the other VAG brands call it "DSG". the type or age of the gearbox is irrelevant, it's just a pecking order thing.

    when Lamborghini get it it'll be called something stupid like "grab-the-bull-by-it's-balls-omatic" or something
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  12. Ads
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    Ads License to drive

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    Same here. An audi isn't an audi without it. :sly:
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  13. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!!

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    yup agreed, the S tronic is only 6 speed....no 7 speed exists on any 8P
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  14. paddy
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    paddy Audi=No fault code, no idea

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    Sorry sub but when i bought my car it was DSG, S-tronic didnt come in till 07/08, its just a diferent name but it is age related. All 7 speeds are S-tronic.
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  15. Ads
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    Ads License to drive

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    It's nothing to do with 6 speed or 7 speed or age. Mine is a 2006 6 speed box and is called 's-tronic' on all the paperwork etc.
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  16. paddy
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    paddy Audi=No fault code, no idea

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    OK now chaps pay attention.....

    The original 6 speed transverse box was called DSG and used in the R32 and TT3.2 only at first. It was later used in most VAG cars. The S-tronic was developed as a lower torque cheaper version of the DSG using dry clutch plates and 7 speeds. the s-tronic was originally the longitudinal version of the transverse DSG which remained 6 speed. Audi now call all their duel clutch boxes S-tronic but they are not the same thing.

    Your homework tonight is to write this out in best.
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  17. VWAddict
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    VWAddict Member

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    Nope.

    The same transmission in both VW and Audi product is named S-tronic when in an Audi and DSG when in a VW.

    Audi originally called it 'DSG', but subsequently decided to name it 'S-Tronic' with a view to brand-differentiation.

    That is all.
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  18. Ads
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    Ads License to drive

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    Don't shoot the messenger. Argue (i'm sure you will ;)) with the sales receipt I have.

    The receipt is dated 2006 and refers to my car as a 2.0T FSI S-Tronic. So unless the receipt owns a crystal ball the term 's-tronic' must've come in BEFORE 07/08.
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  19. paddy
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    paddy Audi=No fault code, no idea

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    Now look.....You can stay behind after class and read this young man

    At the time of launch in 2003[2][6] - it became the world's first dual clutch transmission in a series production car,[2][6] in the German-market Volkswagen Golf Mk4 R32[2][6] and shortly afterwards, worldwide in the original Audi TT 3.2;[7] and for the first few years of production, this original DSG transmission was only available in transversely-orientated[2] front engine, front-wheel drive — or Haldex Traction-based four-wheel drive vehicle layouts.
    The first DSG transaxle that went into production for the Volkswagen Group mainstream marques had six forward speeds (and one reverse),[6][7] and used wet/submerged multi-plate clutch packs[2][4] (Volkswagen Group internal code: DQ250, parts code prefix: 02E).[7][8] It has been paired to engines with up to 350 N·m (260 lb·ft) of torque,[6][7] and the two-wheel drive version weighs 93 kg (210 lb). It is manufactured at Volkswagen Groups Kassel plant,[2] with a daily production output of 1,500 units.[6]
    At the start of 2008, another world first,[6] an additional 70 kg (150 lb) seven-speed DSG transaxle[6] (Volkswagen Group internal code: DQ200, parts code prefix: 0AM)[8][9][10] became available. It differs from the six-speed DSG, in that uses two single-plate dry clutches (of similar diameter).[10] This clutch pack was designed by LuK Clutch Systems, LLC.[11] This seven-speed DSG is used in smaller front-wheel drive cars with smaller displacement engines with lower torque outputs,[6][7][10] such as the latest Volkswagen Golf,[6][10] Volkswagen Polo Mk5,[10] and the new SEAT Ibiza,[7] due to it having a maximum torque handling capacity of 250 N·m (180 lb·ft).[6] It uses considerably less oil than the six-speed DQ250; this new DQ200 uses just 1.7 litres (0.37 imp gal; 0.45 US gal) of transmission fluid.[6]
    In late 2008, an all-new seven speed longitudinal[7][12] S tronic[12] version of the DSG transaxle went into series production (Volkswagen Group internal code: DL501, parts code prefix: 0B5),[8] lead by Audi transmission design engineer Mario Schenker.[12] Initially, from early 2009, it is only used in certain Audi cars, and only with longitudinally-mounted engines. Like the original six-speed DSG, it features a concentric dual wet multi-plate clutch.[12] However, this particular variant uses notably more plates — the larger outer clutch (for the odd-numbered gears) uses 10 plates, whereas the smaller inner clutch (driving even-numbered gears and reverse) uses 12 plates.[12] Another notable change over the original transverse DSGs is the lubrication system[13] — Audi now utilise two totally separate oil circuits.[12] One oil circuit, consisting of 7.5 litres (1.65 imp gal; 1.98 US gal), lubricates the hydraulic clutches and mechatronics with fully synthetic specialist automatic transmission fluid (ATF),[12] whilst the other oil circuit lubricates the gear trains and front and centre differentials with 4.3 litres (0.95 imp gal; 1.14 US gal) of conventional hypoid gear oil.[12] This dual circuit lubrication is aimed at increasing overall reliability, due to eliminating cross-contamination of debris and wear particles.[12] It has a torque handling limit of up to 600 N·m (440 lb·ft),[7] and engine power outputs of up to 330 kW (450 PS; 440 bhp).[7] It has a total mass, including all lubricants and the dual-mass flywheel of 141.5 kg (312 lb).[7]


    so there :) they are /were not the same thing intially.
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2011
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  20. Ads
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    Ads License to drive

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    LOL @ wikipedia!! :lmfao:
    Don't believe everything you read on the net. I certainly don't. :eyebrows:
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  21. paddy
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    paddy Audi=No fault code, no idea

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    OK...I lost interst anyway now :)
    The new 7 speed one is a dry clutch system and can be identified with the part code DQ200 and carries a parts code prefix: 0AM. This system has a maximum torque handling capacity of 250nm (184 ft·lbf). thats why you dont find the 7 speed in the S3 or 2.0t.
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2011
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  22. VWAddict
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    VWAddict Member

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    You're reading too much into it...

    The Longitudinal version is ONLY used in Audis, therefore it's ONLY sold as an 'S-Tronic.

    -Unless of course you can tell me of a VW which uses the longitudinal version?
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  23. Lee_R
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    Lee_R Active Member

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    Correct, theres naff all difference. VW still use "DSG" for their 7 speed boxes so does that mean they are S tronic? I think not!
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  24. paddy
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    paddy Audi=No fault code, no idea

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    If there is naf all difference are you saying that the 7 speed is not a dry clutch and the 6 speed is not wet ?. The DSG was produced under license by Audi, i am sure the S-tronic is a UK design. I appreciate that now VW call it DSG and Audi S-tronic but pre 06 Audi called it DSG as well which is what we are talking about.
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  25. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!!

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    Ok i think your really knowledgeable....BUT

    I test drove a 2010 plate S3 on Sunday, S tronic no less.... and that had 6, yes 6 gears..... all 58 plate onwards cars all use S tronic boxes (and previous A3's with the sounds of things) - as said above i read somewhere that the 6 speed in the current S3 is not the newer version that you will find in newer Audi's...which is a 7 speed

    this isn't fiction, this is a fact...... i actually checked to see if the test drive car had 7 gears, for some reason it crossed my mind that it might, but low and behold it would not go beyond 6th.

    and the 6 speed is indeed a twin dry jobby confirmed on the S3 specs on the Audi website (which i cant be arsed to fetch the link for ;) )

    down boy!! down!! off that soap box ;)
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  26. Ads
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    tbh, I don't know what you're talking about anymore. :think:
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  27. sub39h
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    sub39h Active Member

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    ok wikipedia is talking ****. when i bought my 1.6 on a 54 plate, the 3.2 came with a "DSG" gearbox. when the 8P2 was released, the manual for the 6 speed two pedal transmission available on the 3.2, formerly called "DSG" was now called "S-tronic". the gearbox didn't change. paddy if you p/x'ed your car with Audi now and they were hypothetically to sell it, they'd market it as having an "S-tronic" gearbox.

    the 8P DOES use a 7 speed version, in the 1.6, 1.4T, 1.8T (which i believe was formerly available with the 6 speed version originally) and now in the RS3, as well as the 1.6TDI. Golf Mk6s with the same engines use the same 7 speed gearboxes, and call them "DSG".

    additionally, it's not only used in transverse applications anymore. the A4/A5/Q5 2.0T quattro and A4/A5/Q5 3.0TDI quattro all use the 7 speed version of the gearbox, as well as the S4, S5 convertible and RS5. (the V8 S5 coupe uses a traditional torque converter tiptronic gearbox.) no other VAG brands use the longitudinal version yet, but they will in the future no doubt.

    obviously Audi's marketing has had some sort of affect on paddy. or maybe it's because he's old :p
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2011
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  28. Ash B
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    Ash B Well-Known Member

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    :lmfao:


    :laugh::lmfao:

    I had a 56reg A3 that was 2.0TFSI S-Tronic:happy: I thought Audi just changed the name to s-tronic on 2006reg+ and DSG on the older models lol. Either way im not bothered lol
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2011
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  29. sub39h
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    sub39h Active Member

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    they did, but theoretically they're meant to call ALL cars with it S-tronic now, regardless of age. like i said it's purely a pecking order thing.
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  30. paddy
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    paddy Audi=No fault code, no idea

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    Right...thats it, you are all on detention.
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  31. Mr_Scubatank
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    Mr_Scubatank Deeper is always better!

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    Mine had paddles, which some didn't !!!
    But anyway I hated it, clunky, too slow. Sold it today and gone back to manual.
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  32. paddy
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    paddy Audi=No fault code, no idea

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    You had a DSG that was slower than a manual ??
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  33. Ash B
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    Ash B Well-Known Member

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    Think that what he said Paddy:think: Never heard that before:laugh:
    Dont even think its possible haha
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  34. sub39h
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    sub39h Active Member

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    as far as i'm aware all DSGs had paddles on the 8P, regardless of age
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  35. Ads
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    Out of interest... who actually uses their paddles??
    I don't, at all.

    Keep trying to make myself use them as going up through the gears can be fun, but it's the changing down gears that puts me off. I hate the paaauusseee.
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  36. sub39h
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    sub39h Active Member

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    i do... and i don't get a pause? if you stack gearchanges THEN you do cos if it's got to swap cogs (like it has to with multiple gear changes) then it's no faster than a conventional auto

    i only ever use it for engine braking or if i'm pressing on tho
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  37. Ads
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    The pause that I get is.... for example, if I'm driving along in 3rd at 30-35mph and want to drop down to 2nd to overtake. Even though I'm on the gas there's that second of nothing while it rev matches and then the power is dumped back to the wheels.
    Its ok if you're slowing down, there's no pause. But if you're hoping to increase speed quickly by selecting a lower gear then there's the pause.

    Every DSG car I have driven does the same.

    This is the one thing I don't like about DSG and where it is not as good as a manual.
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  38. sub39h
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    sub39h Active Member

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    i can't say i'd noticed. i'll give it a go later

    maybe you need a gearbox remap lol
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  39. Ads
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    Yeah try it. Drive along somewhere between 35 & 40mph in 3rd, keep your foot on the accelerator (at least half way pressed down), and then flick it down to 2nd.
    You'll feel a :tumble: and then half a second to a second later you'll feel a :undwech:.


    The quicker you're travelling in 3rd the longer the pause will be.

    I don't like it.
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  40. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!!

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    on my test drive i kept dropping the gears and chucking the revs through the roof :) is that not supposed to happen???
    that was before i realised it drops the gears for you upon approaching junctions....

    Just spoken to an official Audi guy today regards these boxes, basically confirming that the issues he has had have generally been down to the brain of the system...although admittedly he's not seen an amount to be worried about.... first step is usually to reflash the Stronic ECU which normally does the job if you do end up with issues.

    Also spoke to my old sales manager who's a really good mate, happens to know the chief buyer for one of the largest VAG chains in the UK (which i wasn't aware of)...so hopefully the wait wont be as long as thought, had first offer on mine which is good, although i am holding out for the right price as this 3 door DSG is still alluding me :(
    #40

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