1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

DSG downshift pause/hesitation

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by Ads, May 24, 2010.

  1. Ads
    Offline

    Ads License to drive

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2009
    Messages:
    8,222
    Likes Received:
    579
    [May 24, 2010]
    Not sure if this is normal but I've noticed when downshifting in manual mode that there is a pause/hesitation when going from 3rd to 2nd.

    Example: I'll be in 3rd and still on the gas, and if I press the minus paddle or use the gearstick the car loses all power for about half a second and then it dumps all the power back to the wheels and the car jerks forward.
    The DIS displays shows '2' as soon as I press the paddle, it's just the drive that takes over half a second to arrive.

    This doesn't happen when downshifting from 6th to 5th, 5th to 4th, or 4th to 3rd. These are all instant.
    The half a second loss of power is only apparent when going from 3rd to 2nd.
    However, this pause doesn't happen a 'D' at all.
    Also, doesn't happen when going up through any of the gear though, including 2nd to 3rd.

    Is this normal? Anybody else have this pause??
    #1
  2. Ads

    Ads

    [Sep 20, 2014]

  3. wickyianr1
    Offline

    wickyianr1 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2009
    Messages:
    106
    Likes Received:
    0
    [May 24, 2010]
    i have the pause to especially when you go from d to s for a play.ive just got used to it, a engine and gearbox remap might sought it other members will come along and tell you more that have had it done:o.k:
    #2
  4. Ads
    Offline

    Ads License to drive

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2009
    Messages:
    8,222
    Likes Received:
    579
    [May 24, 2010]
    I haven't noticed it from D to S, and I switch between these faily often.

    The pause almost makes me not want to shift from 3rd to 2nd ever (which is one of the most common downshifts in London driving IMO).
    It doesn't feel like it's harming the car, but it just doesn't feel normal and is slower than the gear change on a normal manual car, which kinda defeats the idea/USP of DSG doesn't it???
    #3
  5. Brett Butler
    Offline

    Brett Butler Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2010
    Messages:
    621
    Likes Received:
    7
    [May 24, 2010]
    For me the biggest pause is between 3rd and 2nd sometimes, over any of the other gears, I think there is quite a ratio shift between those 2, it is not a problem for me though, But if anything makes me sit up and think hmmm, it is 3rd to 2nd, sometime a clunk when slowing down, but as I said notthing that bothers me to the point I think there is something wrong.
    #4
  6. taylorc
    Offline

    taylorc S3 Owner

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2009
    Messages:
    123
    Likes Received:
    1
    [May 24, 2010]
    Mine does this too although I have never looked into any kind of common conditions i.e. 3rd to 2nd etc, all I know is when it does happen it is bloody annoying (as you say it defeats the whole point of DSG).
    When I have the opportunity I will see if it only happens during a 3rd to 2nd change, if anyone can post a cure it would be most helpful.
    #5
  7. Ads
    Offline

    Ads License to drive

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2009
    Messages:
    8,222
    Likes Received:
    579
    [May 25, 2010]
    Cheers guys. Sounding like it's a common feature then. I just wish that if it had to do it it was in higher gears i.e. 6th to 5th or 5th to 4th.

    Sometimes when i'm already on a bend in 3rd and want to accelerate out of it with more drive on the wheels I shift down into 2nd then........ :tumble: ................ and some more :tumble: .................... and then, HELLO, power's back, with a dash of turbo, and :scared2: i'm fighting to keep my line.

    Not a good look.
    #6
  8. xnox202
    Offline

    xnox202 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2010
    Messages:
    193
    Likes Received:
    4
    [May 25, 2010]
    I find this problem too but less pronounced when I recently changed with my current BSH Stage 1+2 TSI Intake kit. No kidding but the problem's still there though. Just be kind and don't abruptly downshift just incase to make the ECU "ready" for the downshift.

    I actually let the ECU does my driving style than actually let your driving style do the ECU. Just my thoughts.
    #7
  9. kgw
    Offline

    kgw New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2010
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    [May 25, 2010]
    From an experienced driver on another forum:

    "...there's three basic rules which are carved in stone: Never brake once you're in a corner, Never lift once you've turned in, Never change gear until after the exit."

    This will likely solve the "hesitation" experience. . .:yes:

    #8
  10. LWNY
    Offline

    LWNY Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    Messages:
    161
    Likes Received:
    2
    [May 26, 2010]
    I think with the DSG, you should be able to "upshift" in the turn, given there should be minimal interruption in power delivery, and that will bring you into a engine rev range with less torque, hence possibly saving you from doing the worse thing, like plowing pass the turn or lifting off the throttle. I know it is effective in quattro, not sure about the FWD cars.
    #9
  11. Ads
    Offline

    Ads License to drive

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2009
    Messages:
    8,222
    Likes Received:
    579
    [May 26, 2010]
    Ok, i've been busted :busted_cop: I'm a **** driver who changes gears on bends.
    But let's say just before going into a bend then.
    Approaching a bend in 3rd sometimes I want to drop down to 2nd to get some extra traction for the bend. Sometimes it's a last minute decision, I change down and all I get is coasting for the entrance and first second of the bend and then loads of drive thrown to the wheels just after.
    Not good.
    #10
  12. xnox202
    Offline

    xnox202 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2010
    Messages:
    193
    Likes Received:
    4
    [May 26, 2010]
    So anyway, I just realised something. Well, I can give an account for other DSG owners aswell.

    It's like this:

    1) To experience the bad downshift pause/hesitation, on the throttle of 20-80% are the worst ones. Basically the ECU could not really 'rev-match' with your throttle current position, hence cutting out the whole thing, and gives itself that 'pause' to recover.

    2) Now, if you downshift while not touching the throttle, I noticed the downshift is quicker than actually having the pedal to be around 20-80%. Significantly, the ECU could rev-match and gives you that quick DSG change as opposed to #1.

    3) This is a hit or miss, on WOT/100% throttle: The pause may sometime be there.. but shouldn't be there on S or "Kick-down" as the ECU is ready to downshift.

    Afterall, I think DSG is still a new technology which is yet to be matured by time. Hopefully VW/Audi could address this issue soon though. Just be kind to the engine, rather than bogging it bad. Just my thoughts though. In no way the few trials I tried can be accounted for the actual truth. Would be interesting to know what others result by doing the same thing I did.
    #11
  13. kgw
    Offline

    kgw New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2010
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    [May 26, 2010]
    Hmmm. . .I've stopped using the gears to slow down. Approaching a corner, I tap (or double-tap) the paddle to get into the gear I want to accelerate through the corner, and begin applying accelerator as I enter the corner. I don't stab it, but press it gradually until the front wheels are practically straight. When I'm driving with the missus, all this is forgotten and I just toodle around :racer:
    #12
  14. V6Pete
    Offline

    V6Pete Now running on Bentley's y'all

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2009
    Messages:
    1,491
    Likes Received:
    2
    [May 26, 2010]
    Umm... not sure if I've misunderstood this..... but iIf you're in 2nd and on the gas, then won't the box have 4th engaged ready to change into rather than 2nd?

    If you're braking in 3rd gear and change into 2nd, do you still get the delay?
    #13
  15. Gti Jazz Blue
    Offline

    Gti Jazz Blue Active Member VCDS Map User

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2007
    Messages:
    1,655
    Likes Received:
    6
    [May 27, 2010]
    You may have hit the nail on the head the pre-selection depends on what the driver inputs are, if you are accelerating the pre-select will have the next gear up loaded on the other clutch, if braking it will pre-select the next gear down. Really depends on what the logic does if you lift off or steady on the gas as that one could go either way.

    Paul
    Last edited: May 27, 2010
    #14
  16. Ads
    Offline

    Ads License to drive

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2009
    Messages:
    8,222
    Likes Received:
    579
    [May 27, 2010]
    Do you mean "if you're in 3rd and on the gas"???
    If so, then yeah I guess that could explain the pause now you've mentioned it. The car is expecting a change up (hence 4th being engaged and ready for selecting), but then I bowl it a googly and ask for 2nd gear, and then there's a pause while the gearbox sorts its life out. Makes sense.
    Just strange there's no pause between any of the other downshifts though.

    Hmmm... can't say that I've noticed this. But that could only be because if I'm braking then i'm not accelerating, and by the time I change down, lift off the brake and apply the gas the hesitation (if it did happen) would have already passed.
    #15
  17. V6Pete
    Offline

    V6Pete Now running on Bentley's y'all

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2009
    Messages:
    1,491
    Likes Received:
    2
    [May 27, 2010]

    Sorry yes I did mean if you were in 3rd and on the gas.

    If you're in 3rd, and accelerating, 4th will be pre-selected. If you change down, the box will have to put 4th away and go fetch 3rd. It should still change gear pretty quickly, but not 'instantly' as you usually get with a pre-selected change.

    There will be a pause between any non pre-selected down shifts, what reason it's more obvious from 3rd to 2nd I don't know.
    #16
  18. xnox202
    Offline

    xnox202 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2010
    Messages:
    193
    Likes Received:
    4
    [May 27, 2010]
    Some logic truth there, but... we may never know anyway.

    Gas, Upper gears pre-selected on upshifts.. Depress Gas, Lower gears pre-selected on downshifts. Sounds about right.

    And it's no different between the 2.0T and the V6 eh?
    #17
  19. LWNY
    Offline

    LWNY Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    Messages:
    161
    Likes Received:
    2
    [May 27, 2010]
    I don't think you can say if you press the gas on 3rd, then 4th will be pre-selected. This might be the case if you are accelerating away and the car wants to quickly do the 1-2-3-4-5-6 shift. Otherwise, in many cases when you enter a turn, your car is frequently in 5th but at 2000 rpm. If you apply the gas in such situation, it assume you want to accelerate, and given that at 2000 rpm, there is not much torque to accelerate, it might pre-shift to 4th gear.

    So giving it gas when the car is out of torque range will cause it to pre-downshift. Giving it gas continuously while you are accelerating already will cause it to pre-upshift.
    #18
  20. xnox202
    Offline

    xnox202 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2010
    Messages:
    193
    Likes Received:
    4
    [May 28, 2010]
    Couldn't agree more I supposed :yes:
    #19
  21. paddy
    Offline

    paddy Audi=No fault code, no idea

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2008
    Messages:
    5,133
    Likes Received:
    123
    [May 28, 2010]
    Pete is absolutely right.
    Provided that the next ratio has been selected correctly (i.e. the computer guessed correctly as to an up-shift vs. a down-shift) the shift itself is merely a rapid movement of the clutch. Unexpected shifts may confuse the system though and it must first select the correct ratio before engaging the clutch, giving a far slower shift. most of the actuation is carried out by solenoids and these can get slow/lazy or even open circuit giving you a fault and a get you home gear.. This happened to me and i had to have the box re programmed.
    Its not as straight forward as on/off gas. Driver input, past experience, torque info and ESP are all working here to keep you out of the hedge. The difference in the way the box reacts to D and S mode shows how much variability it has built in.
    #20

Share This Page