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dsg comparisons

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by tinka, Sep 22, 2005.

  1. tinka
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    tinka Guest

    [Sep 22, 2005]
    ive started using the tiptronic mode on the dsg box the last few days,and it seems to shift faster in this mode than in drive or with the paddles,

    im sure if my memory serves me right,on the demo when i pulled out on a roundabout it shot through the gears,

    has anyone noticed this on their dsg,is it different in tiptronic mode,or does it shoot through the gears ok in drive,

    i hope its not got a problem,either that or i need to compare it to another one /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/noidea.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ok.gif
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  3. mikep
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    mikep Member

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    [Sep 22, 2005]
    I've never used the tip mode, just 'sport' and the paddles. You've got me thinking now, I'll go and have a play.......

    any excuse!
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  4. slimbloke
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    slimbloke Member

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    [Sep 22, 2005]
    what is tiptronic mode?

    I have D, S, and manual (paddles and stick)
    #3
  5. tinka
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    tinka Guest

    [Sep 22, 2005]
    its the stick mode,
    #4
  6. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 22, 2005]
    I use tip-tronic (manual) mode using both stick and paddles almost all the time, except if I'm stuck in a traffic jam when I use D.

    I do find that the change is slightly quicker in tip-tronic that D when I use the paddles and changing using the stick is just a quick as the paddles.

    When I 'test drove' an A3 2.0T DSG S-Line Sportback (dealer courtesy car whilst mine was being serviced)yesterday it had different paddles to my A3 and they operated quieter. Mine make quite a click where as the new ones were almost silent.
    #5
  7. slimbloke
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    slimbloke Member

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    [Sep 22, 2005]
    but manual IS stick AND/OR paddles... they are only switches surely /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
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  8. Japper
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    Japper Ibis S3 Fan Club

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    [Sep 22, 2005]
    I agree with tinka, I have always thought that using the stick ( tiptronic mode ) seems smoother and faster than the paddles. Could be my imagination /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
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  9. beaker
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    beaker Member

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    [Sep 22, 2005]
    There's also a switch under the accelerator, but hey you all knew that already.

    You can have your foot planted (not too firmly) then give it a nudge and it'll drop a gear.

    Obviously, it drops when you floor it but it also drops when this switch is tripped.
    #8
  10. Japper
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    Japper Ibis S3 Fan Club

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    [Sep 22, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    I agree with tinka, I have always thought that using the stick ( tiptronic mode ) seems smoother and faster than the paddles. Could be my imagination /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Should have added, that this is only in the first couple of gears. After that there's no difference for me.
    #9
  11. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 22, 2005]
    I think there is a definite difference between using the paddles to change gear between when the box is auto mode (D or S) and when it's in manual mode. It's so quick when your in manual mode that it's virtually instantaneousness. As you click the paddle the engine note changes, especially changing up when accelerating. Slightly slower when you change down as the system blips the throttle.
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  12. beaker
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    beaker Member

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    [Sep 22, 2005]
    So there is a definite difference between the temporary manual that is engaged when you shift, and the actual 'manual' mode?
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  13. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 22, 2005]
    I think there is. It's like the fully automatic changes in D or S are, in my opinion, slightly slower than if you make a change in manual. In auto the paddles still seem to force an auto change rather than a manual change if you see what I mean. It's all rather academic really because any of the changes are much quicker than you could ever do with a normal manual gearbox. The DSG has changed before you could even get the clutch fully down, let alone release the throttle, dip the clutch, move the gear lever and release the clutch again.
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  14. Rankrotten
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    [Sep 23, 2005]
    I find the manual stick mode tricky to use as I keep thinking it should be nudge the lever forward to change down.
    #13
  15. Eeef
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    Eeef Lord of War

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    [Sep 23, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    I find the manual stick mode tricky to use as I keep thinking it should be nudge the lever forward to change down.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    It should be...
    #14
  16. slimbloke
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    slimbloke Member

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    [Sep 23, 2005]
    My local Audi tech guy (and a good one too!) said that changing in manual mode (any method) is faster for the gearbox, as it's not trying to calculate which gear it should have prepared next all the time... I only started using manual more than on the twisties about 3-4 months ago. It somehow brings me back closer to the machine.

    (and if bowfer is reading this: yeah, yeah, I know /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif )
    #15
  17. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Sep 23, 2005]
    I use manual mode most of the time,but never use the paddles.
    I could take them off.
    I find them in the wrong position and don't like the 'learner/woman' hand position they demand on the wheel.

    I'd prefer if they were column mounted than wheel mounted.

    I tend to drive with my right hand at the '10 past' position and my left hand resting on the stick,so the stick is the logical option.
    I also think the +/- is the wrong way round,but I seem to have adapted to it easily enough.

    My ideal DSG would have a pedal you could use to slip the clutch and it would let me change down and up when I wanted to... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
    As soon as Audi release that option,I'm getting one... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
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  18. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 23, 2005]
    I agree with you slimbloke. I use manual tiptronic mode almost all the time, only using D in a traffic jam situation. I find that, in the manual mode, I feel just as 'involved' with the transmission as I did with my previous manual 1.8T Sports, but with no clutch to have to keep dipping and with much faster gear-changes.

    I still drive with my hands in the 'woman/leaner' position (ie 10 to 2 / quarter to 3), as bowfer describes it, as I find it's the best position to give full control of the car at all times. Consequently the paddles are generally in just the place for me, except when turning tighter corners when I would use the stick. Overall I think I use the stick and paddles about 50-50 and I must admit, moving the stick forward to change up and back to change down seems quite natural to me. I'm obviously the type of driver the DSG was designed to satisfy.
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  19. Japper
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    Japper Ibis S3 Fan Club

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    [Sep 23, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    I use manual mode most of the time,but never use the paddles.
    I could take them off.
    I find them in the wrong position and don't like the 'learner/woman' hand position they demand on the wheel.

    I'd prefer if they were column mounted than wheel mounted.

    I tend to drive with my right hand at the '10 past' position and my left hand resting on the stick,so the stick is the logical option.
    I also think the +/- is the wrong way round,but I seem to have adapted to it easily enough.

    My ideal DSG would have a pedal you could use to slip the clutch and it would let me change down and up when I wanted to... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
    As soon as Audi release that option,I'm getting one... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    So bowfer, all rally drivers are women/learners then eh !. Just admit it's more you being a lazy one handed driver /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    If the paddles wer column mounted, aka Ferrari 430, then they would still be positioned at 10 and 2. The DSG may not be as 'driver' focused or ultimately involving as a manual, but it does give you more control in everyday situations.......unless you can't drive with two hands on the wheel /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
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  20. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Sep 23, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    but it does give you more control in everyday situations

    [/ QUOTE ]

    We'll have to beg to differ there Japper..
    A gearbox that changes down and up for you,even in manual mode,evidently does not offer more control.

    It may offer more options than a conventional manual,but not more control,no way.
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  21. Japper
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    Japper Ibis S3 Fan Club

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    [Sep 23, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    but it does give you more control in everyday situations

    [/ QUOTE ]

    We'll have to beg to differ there Japper..
    A gearbox that changes down and up for you,even in manual mode,evidently does not offer more control.

    It may offer more options than a conventional manual,but not more control,no way.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Firstly, I meant control, being that you have both hands on the wheel ALL of the time. Secondly, I still have not found a situation that i require to hold 4300 revs for a corner in the TDI.

    We must get together soon and do a 'back to back' comparison /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
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  22. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Sep 23, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    We must get together soon and do a 'back to back' comparison /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I'm hoping I won't have it long enough to get the chance ! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
    #21
  23. Eeef
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    Eeef Lord of War

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    [Sep 23, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]

    I'm hoping I won't have it long enough to get the chance ! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Price of a can of petrol dropped sufficiently to make it worthwhile then /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

    Audi flambe anyone?
    #22
  24. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Sep 23, 2005]
    Couple of people in Glasgow due a new car soon.They've got poxy Lagunas just now,but because of the way the CO2 company car tax rules work,they wouldn't be any worse off with my diesel Audi than they are with their petrol Laguna.

    See how it goes in the next few months.

    Alfa 159,new Lexus diesel or Golf Gti are my 'want list'.

    Alfa is beautiful.
    Lexus is RWD and Levenson hi-fi.
    Golf is fast.

    Whatever I go for next......it will be.....MANUAL !!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/groovy.gif
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  25. slimbloke
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    [Sep 23, 2005]
    Bowfer:
    With all respect, please give it a rest (do you have to state this in every single DSG thread?)! We're comparing DSG gear changing not slagging them off. I can't have a DSG conversation/thread without it changing into a "is DSG any good?" discussion! As said before, I don't bounce the revs off the limiter, but you try to.

    Don't take this as a flame... just a friendly nudge /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
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  26. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Sep 23, 2005]
    By the same token slimbloke,I get a wee bit fed up of people 'waxing lyrical' about the DSG when it is flawed,which is why I often feel compelled to give my views on it,but I take your point.
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  27. marriedblonde
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    [Sep 23, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    but it does give you more control in everyday situations

    [/ QUOTE ]

    We'll have to beg to differ there Japper..
    A gearbox that changes down and up for you,even in manual mode,evidently does not offer more control.

    It may offer more options than a conventional manual,but not more control,no way.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Firstly, I meant control, being that you have both hands on the wheel ALL of the time. Secondly, I still have not found a situation that i require to hold 4300 revs for a corner in the TDI.

    We must get together soon and do a 'back to back' comparison /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]


    I've still not been in a situation where I need to hold a car on the rev limit. The last track day (of many in my road cars) I did at goodwood in Claires car never once required me to sit on the rev limit, if I hit the limiter then I would have screwed up as I should have chnaged up! Had I have taken the Audi I would have quite happily changed mid corner as the changes are so quick.
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  28. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 23, 2005]
    It's not so much 'waxing lyrical' as driving a car with a geadbox that just does what we want in a manner that we enjoy. It does what it was designed to do. Obviously there are some drivers who do not like what is was designed to do, in exactly the same way as not everyone likes the design of almost anything. Some do and Some don't, but I don't think the DSG is flawed as you put it. It does not behave in the manner that you personally would like, but that's a different matter.

    I hope you can get back to a manual sooner rather than later and enjoy your personal preferences again.
    #27
  29. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Sep 23, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    I've still not been in a situation where I need to hold a car on the rev limit. The last track day (of many in my road cars) I did at goodwood in Claires car never once required me to sit on the rev limit, if I hit the limiter then I would have screwed up as I should have chnaged up! Had I have taken the Audi I would have quite happily changed mid corner as the changes are so quick.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    That's just one track.
    There are many tracks,and roads,which include sections where a gearchange is unneccessary and being able to 'hold' a gear,even if it means you hit the rev limiter for a split second,is the better and faster option.
    #28
  30. tinka
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    tinka Guest

    [Sep 23, 2005]
    ive been paying more attention on the changes,in d and manual (tiptronic) and its definatly different,drive seems more refined at what ever speed,

    also just out of interest,when i first had the car the gear indicators on the dis started flashing,when i looked in the hand book (p178) it said that if they flash it means the cluthes are being overloaded(interesting).

    whatever our views good or bad,the dsg is a definate improvement over a conventional auto gearbox,and i like it.
    #29
  31. Japper
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    Japper Ibis S3 Fan Club

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    [Sep 23, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    I've still not been in a situation where I need to hold a car on the rev limit. The last track day (of many in my road cars) I did at goodwood in Claires car never once required me to sit on the rev limit, if I hit the limiter then I would have screwed up as I should have chnaged up! Had I have taken the Audi I would have quite happily changed mid corner as the changes are so quick.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    That's just one track.
    There are many tracks,and roads,which include sections where a gearchange is unneccessary and being able to 'hold' a gear,even if it means you hit the rev limiter for a split second,is the better and faster option.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    bowfer, if we were talking about a rev happy / no torque petrol engine ( 2.0 fsi /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif ) then you would have a point. Changing up 500 revs early in the TDI is NOT the slower option. Also the DSG changes up mid corner far smoother than you could / or would want to in a manual.

    WE are not waxing lyrical, merely enjoying a car / gearbox that we like. WE do not state it's perfect, but then how many manual gearboxes are perfect......not in an Audi anyway. Oh and WE actually try before we buy /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

    Sorry for the rant, but i'm with slimbloke on this one.
    #30
  32. marriedblonde
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    [Sep 23, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    I've still not been in a situation where I need to hold a car on the rev limit. The last track day (of many in my road cars) I did at goodwood in Claires car never once required me to sit on the rev limit, if I hit the limiter then I would have screwed up as I should have chnaged up! Had I have taken the Audi I would have quite happily changed mid corner as the changes are so quick.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    That's just one track.
    There are many tracks,and roads,which include sections where a gearchange is unneccessary and being able to 'hold' a gear,even if it means you hit the rev limiter for a split second,is the better and faster option.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Sorry but how is hitting the rev limiter in a gear the faster option. Obviously if you hit the limiter your no longer accelerating?

    I often watch motorsport on TV (touring cars, WRC GT champ etc) and they always hold the car bouncing off the rev limit to make rapid progress - NOT!

    Like I said goodwood was the last track I drove and I have driven a fair old few and never once have I felt the need to hold a car banging off the rev limit. Why would you? You change down a gear and brake prior to the corner accel out and change up as requried.

    Even in very fast road driving I've never felt the need to hold the car against the limiter, wel apart from when I have had hire cars in the past and then they deserve to be abused.
    #31
  33. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Sep 23, 2005]
    MB..
    Take Knockhill (for example).
    There is a short straight prior to the chicane that will have you just hitting the rev limiter prior to braking.
    I guarantee you changing gear at this point is a waste of time and will be slower than merely leaving the car in the gear that it's in and letting it rev out a bit.
    I've driven cars round there,raced bikes round there and instructed at bike track days there.
    Same thing applies to cars and bikes-you leave them in the gear they're in as an upward change,quickly followed by a downchange is pointless and slower than just holding the gear and letting it 'scream' a bit.

    No-one is suggesting you hold a car against the rev limiter for ages.That would be stupid but,then again,so is the car changing up for you (without being asked) just as you hit the brakes !
    #32
  34. marriedblonde
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    [Sep 23, 2005]
    So prior to this very short straight you are in a gear where your almost at the top of the rev range as you head down it? Hmmm doesn't sound right to me /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

    Well we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.
    #33
  35. slimbloke
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    [Sep 23, 2005]
    Hmmph, this always happens to DSG threads /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
    #34
  36. Eeef
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    Eeef Lord of War

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    [Sep 23, 2005]
    yeah come on guys, I for one am totally bored of it.

    Some of us like it, some us don't.

    Let's just leave it at that.
    #35
  37. tinka
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    tinka Guest

    [Sep 23, 2005]
    started off so well too
    #36
  38. marriedblonde
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    marriedblonde Moderator

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    [Sep 23, 2005]

    ...no one is being forced to read this thread
    #37
  39. Eeef
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    Eeef Lord of War

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    [Sep 23, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]

    ...no one is being forced to read this thread

    [/ QUOTE ]

    yeah but you know what it's like when you see that new message icon....It's like putting a paedo in a school and telling him not to touch.
    #38
  40. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Sep 23, 2005]
    True, but perhaps some people think they will learn something new rather than read to the same old arguments all over again.
    #39
  41. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Sep 23, 2005]
    No MB,you only approach the top end of the rev range as you get near the chicane.

    The best scenario is just to leave it in the gear it's in,let it rev out a bit then the revs will naturally drop as you go through the chicane and you're in the right part of the rev range for the exit.

    If you were to change up before the chicane,you'd only have to change down a split second later,so it's a waste of time.

    (bit of a moot point as cars are boring as hell round a track anyway,but what the hell...) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
    #40

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