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DSG and snow

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by Japper, Mar 1, 2006.

  1. Japper
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    Japper Ibis S3 Fan Club

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    Is it just me that thinks DSG is brilliant in the snow. Pull away at tickover with all that torque, no chance of stalling and then boot it, wheelspin in 1st,2nd,srd,4th but rifle shot changes and great fun /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
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  2. marriedblonde
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    marriedblonde Moderator

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    Yes but when I drove mine in snow there had only been maybe 2 inches at most. Looking at the pic Bowfer posted you have had considerabley more so I can't comment...

    J.
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  3. Japper
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    Japper Ibis S3 Fan Club

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    [ QUOTE ]

    Yes but when I drove mine in snow there had only been maybe 2 inches at most. Looking at the pic Bowfer posted you have had considerabley more so I can't comment...

    J.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yep, we have considarably more than thou /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif
    #3
  4. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    I can only assume the 17inch wheels and narrower(?) tyres make a helluva difference Japper,because my car is a total nightmare.

    I wasn't going to mention it,as it would just be dismissed as part of my alleged 'vendetta' against Audi,but seeing as you've brought it up...

    Mrs.Bowfer,against my advice,took it into golden square yesterday and was shocked at how bad it was.
    She couldn't get up the cobble road from Union street to Golden Square !

    Traction is bad enough,but stopping the thing is worse.

    It ends up being a succession of heart-stopping moments,flitting between wheelspin,lock-up and plough-on.

    In 20 years of driving,I can't recall driving anything so useless in snow,but I've never had a car with 18 inch alloys and 225 tyres before,so I am perfectly willing to concede they are the problem.

    I'm usually quite a 'give it a go' bloke,but it's staying in the drive until the snow goes away,simple as that.

    I'd rather have the hassle of giving the wife a lift to her work,so I can use her car,than the terror of an S-line in the snow !

    [​IMG]

    Note the absence of tracks behind the Audi,and the warmed up HRV !

    (sorry about the finger over the lens,it's my phone camera /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif)
    #4
  5. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member

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    Drivers in alpine countries (Austria, Southern Germany and Switzerland) generally have 2 sets of wheels and tyres. When it starts to snow, as it does for 5-6 months of every year for them, they change onto the narrower winter tread tyres. Their wider tyres are for summer use only.
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  6. mikep
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    mikep Member

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    Wide tyres can be a bit of an issue in snow, as Dave says, narrower tyres are the safer option. You only have to look at the skinny tyres the rally drivers use on snow and ice, usually with studs fitted.

    My old Morris Minor was great in snow, bicycle tyres and no power makes for safe predicable handling!

    But for donuts and tailslides, wide tyres and loads of power are a must!
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  7. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    Indeed,the right tyres can make an astounding difference.

    When I was a youngster,I had a Datusn 140J (I know...but we all have to start somewhere) and I couldn't afford tyres,so I bought some 'Mud and Snows' that were on special offer in the summer.

    They were awful,until the snow came,then they were quite incredible.
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  8. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    But for donuts and tailslides, wide tyres and loads of power are a must!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yeah,and rear wheel drive of course. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
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  9. marriedblonde
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    marriedblonde Moderator

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    Bowfer you didn't used to live in Hatton did you?
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  10. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [ QUOTE ]

    Bowfer you didn't used to live in Hatton did you?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Hatton,as in Hatton of Fintray ?

    No,but I used to live in Blackburn,which is close.
    #10
  11. marriedblonde
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    marriedblonde Moderator

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    No Hatton as in down the road from Ellon and before you get to Peterhead. Your datsun and fiat just sound like someone's older brother I used to know.

    J.
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  12. Japper
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    Japper Ibis S3 Fan Club

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    bowfer, though 17" wheels the tyres are still 225's so contact patch is the same. My drive is steeper than yours and I reverse up mine. Snow around Ellon looks about the same depth as you have.

    The cobbled street in to Golden Square is almost flat, amazing that your car struggles. I have driven all around Dyce this avo into all the little units car parks and not come close to getting stuck once. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
    #12
  13. mikep
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    mikep Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    But for donuts and tailslides, wide tyres and loads of power are a must!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yeah,and rear wheel drive of course. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    No, just using the handbrake, it's great fun!
    #13
  14. beaker
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    beaker Member

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    [ QUOTE ]

    No Hatton as in down the road from Ellon and before you get to Peterhead. Your datsun and fiat just sound like someone's older brother I used to know.

    J.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Ellon! What is it with that place. I'd never heard of it till a few years back when my GF moved up near there for work. Ever since then I hear mentions of it all the time. 5 people in my new job either lived there or know someone there and its been in the paper countless times. Spooky stuff.
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  15. marriedblonde
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    marriedblonde Moderator

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    I did 3 years at Ellon Academy /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif was rather infamous for various out of school activities I was involved in...
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  16. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]

    No Hatton as in down the road from Ellon and before you get to Peterhead. Your datsun and fiat just sound like someone's older brother I used to know.

    J.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Ellon! What is it with that place. I'd never heard of it till a few years back when my GF moved up near there for work. Ever since then I hear mentions of it all the time. 5 people in my new job either lived there or know someone there and its been in the paper countless times. Spooky stuff.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Ellon has offered affordable new housing for the past few years,within reasonable commuting distance of a large industrial estate (Bridge of Don).

    Apart from that,it doesn't have anything 'special' to offer really.

    Not me MB,but a helluva co-incidence all the same !

    My Fiat 850 and Datsun 140 days were when I lived in Peterculter and drove around tiny wee backroads to get to mates' houses.

    We used to unofficially rally around what used to be an official UK rally stage as well,in Durris woods.

    I'm glad I was young then,as you wouldn't get away with it now. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
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  17. Japper
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    Japper Ibis S3 Fan Club

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    There's nothing wrong with Ellon. It has 5 pubs, a golf course and is an easy 15 mile commute.
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  18. Japper
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    Japper Ibis S3 Fan Club

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    Oh, and affordable new housing........you make it sound like mastrich or something close /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
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  19. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    There's nothing wrong with Ellon. It has 5 pubs, a golf course and is an easy 15 mile commute.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Oh no,there's nothing wrong with it.

    Just that,prior to the heap of affordable newbuilds that started a few years back,it wasn't a particularly sought-after place to live.

    The new houses out there are still considerably cheaper than anywhere else near Aberdeen,and were miles cheaper when they first started being built years ago,hence the sudden influx of people.

    I'd probably consider it if I worked in the BOD,but seeing as I work in Dyce,and the missus works in Cults,it would be a horror.

    The new road that,more or less,co-incided with the new houses also helped as the old road was a deathtrap nightmare.
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  20. Mandala
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    Mandala Member

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    It's hardly a surprise that summer tyres with a 225 contact patch are rubbish. I once owned a BMW, rear drive with 255 tyres on the back. Now that really was useless in the snow.
    The solution is a set of steelies fitted with M+S tyres.
    #20
  21. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    I was reminded how downright scary DSG is in the snow on Wednesday morning.
    Perhaps it's just my 'technique' but I find a clutch indispensable for snow driving.
    I use it to 'dampen' the shocks of wheelspin and braking.
    No such luxury with DSG.
    Getting going is acceptable,but slowing is a total nightmare !
    As soon as you back off the throttle,the reverse loads lock the front wheels,leaving you slithering along with only the handbrake to save you.
    With a clutch,you would be able to stop that by dipping the clutch and applying the brake gently.
    No point in trying to brake gently if the DSG has locked them anyway !

    I'm sure different tyres would help,but I'm also convinced the standard tyres would cope better if the driver had a clutch.
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  22. yak
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    yak Member

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    Looks like bowfer's problems are related to DSG with those lockings, as manual car surely doesn't do that ;)

    Anyway, automatic itself is horrible invention when it comes to snow. And so are summer tyres (no matter how wide, they're just useless at anything above 20km/h). I'd also put non-studded winter tyres to class useless when it comes to icy conditions like outside atm.

    Been quite slippery here lately, but luckily I have to say while the ESP is overly protective, it does indeed save from lots of troubles. Only problem I have is that it essentially makes the car crawl when pulling away in ice/snow combo. Without ESP (and just EDL or something) the car pulls a lot faster (and with huge difference). But the ESP does stop situations like the one when I drove just home, changing lane at 100km/h and the car almost loses it's end. ESP stopped it quickly, although I knew after that why others drove 50km/h.

    Also with direct compare to Kia Sportage with 4WD, I trust my A3 more at winters, the ESP is much more predictable and acts faster. In Kia it's well, random, makes unsecure feeling. Of course I won't pull as fast with just front tyres, but that makes little difference while on the move (with also better gravity and smaller tyres, but not the point).

    Then again, I have somewhat different tyres, while still too wide (205), studded, and A3 is tailhappy. Kinda weird, but certainly not the worst winter car unlike bowfer mentions. E36 BMW is the most horrible one I've own in winter conditions, getting stuck in every possible way, in every possible place.

    - Yak
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  23. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    Not a word of a lie,I very nearly got stuck on Wednesday morning and a guy in one of those Nissan 200ZX things (the sort of rear wheel drive coupe things that have huge exhausts) went sailing past.
    I was just sitting there spinning,with the nose edging towards the kerb.
    It's definitely worse than it was last winter,the only difference being F1's.
    I've had F1's in the snow before (on manual cars),but I don't remember them being this bad.
    Maybe there's something about F1's/A3/DSG that makes it scary!
    Manual mode doesn't help either,as the throttle blip when changing down actually makes the car speed up a wee bit,then the sudden transmission loads lock the wheels when it engages the lower gear.
    Honestly,it's truly scary.

    If any manual drivers want to simulate snow driving with DSG,just try driving without using the clutch.
    You'll find the same problems.
    It doesn't matter how gentle you are with the throttle,the undamped transmission loads will overwhelm the tyres,especially when trying to slow down.
    #23
  24. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    Don't we just know it!

    didn't we have to send you to the other side of the country as punishment?
    #24
  25. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    You in Ellon Japper?

    Not so sure about the affordable housing bit...I moved from my flat to a house just over a year ago and it wasn't exactly 'affordable'!
    #25
  26. BrianM
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    BrianM BrianM

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    Something that bothered me today driving home from Coventry in the snow, I couldn't select 2nd to pull away with the DSG, is that correct? Once moving the manual selection is fine but could have sworn you could use 2nd from standstill? Or do I have a problem..or has age affected my memory?
    #26
  27. terrymcg
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    terrymcg Member

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    Brian,

    Nothing up with your car mate! It is not possible even in manual to pull away in second. The car still overrides some gear selections, like wanging it in second while doing 80MPH!

    Terry
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  28. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    Do the Audis with DSG have the winter mode?

    I've driven my old man's Mk5 Golf GT 170PD, and it's got a winter mode which seems to limit the torque output in some way...it works a treat.
    I did wonder if it selected 2nd too...but it sounds like it doesn't.
    #28
  29. marriedblonde
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    marriedblonde Moderator

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    Nope, no winter mode unless of couse the S setting on the gear box is for snow...
    #29
  30. marriedblonde
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    marriedblonde Moderator

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    LOL...thankfully it wasn't in the 1840's as I was only sent t the south of the country and not down under :)
    #30
  31. Woodster
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    Woodster Welcome to my world...

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    Mine too, like mentioned before you can't engage 2nd to set off

    Yes ok the tyres aren't the best in the snow, but saying that I had the same size on my old 8L S3 (225 x 18"), that car was great!

    On the snow pop it in 2nd and gun it!! :) let the 4 wheel drive sort out where to grip!

    Anyway in this weather I should be out in the TVR to get the full power slide experience!! ;)

    Rich
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  32. OutLore
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    OutLore VOIP Dude

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    Agreed - DSG is probably not that good in the snow - but remember guys, it's essentially an auto. Don't expect a clutch pedal to pop out of the dash just because there is snow on the ground!

    Any auto is **** in the snow.

    I thought that DSG had a low temp thing going on when the temperature was below a certain level? Like some sort of limitation when in 1st...
    #32
  33. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    Never heard of that.

    Like I said though,I don't find getting going the biggest problem.
    It's stopping the thing !
    When the wheels are locked under engine braking,there's sod all you can do,whereas in a manual you would use the clutch.
    I suppose you could whack it into neutral,but you try having the presence of mind to do that when you're sliding towards a ditch and your left hand is pumping the handbrake to kick the arse out !

    I'm willing to admit it's probably not limited to DSG though.
    I can see that all autos must be a nightmare,but it's the only auto I've driven in the snow so I can only speak as I find.
    #33
  34. yak
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    yak Member

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    OutLore, hopefully no one "invents" more of those "cold weather" warnings, safety guards or other sort of irritating, nonfunctional .. well, won't say what.

    For example, some cars have very bright light on the dash when it goes below +4C to show it's "icy". Then imagine looking at that light for the next 7 months. Hurray. Not to mention, it's not slippery or icy even at minus degrees necessarily.

    Next someone invents "less power when it's cold", then what's the point of buying a car which has more power, if it won't give it out. Hush, that's a good point if DSG doesn't have those features, as for bowfer, buy winter tyres, summer tyres aren't designed for snow ;)

    - Yak
    #34
  35. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    I think you'll be proved wrong there Yak.
    One of the next 'big things' in car and bike marketing will be selectable power maps/settings.
    BMW's M5 can switch between a normal and a 'full power' curve,I believe ?
    Suzuki's new GSXR1000 certainly has a three position map,controlled by a switch on the handlebars.
    The rider can then select whether he wants a soft map,for riding in bad conditions,or an aggressive map for sporty riding.
    Honestly,a map specifically for snow driving is entirely sensible and perfectly achievable.
    One needn't stop there.
    One could have a map for every scenario,but it could get silly.
    Suzuki's three way map seems fine.
    A 'puff/normal/mental' option.

    I can only assume Audi don't offer a winter setting on DSG because they still want to kid themselves it's a manual and can be driven like one in the snow,which it can't.
    #35
  36. HeliChris
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    HeliChris Learning to fly 3D

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    I am surprised that Audi signed off the winter testing of the DSG if its that bad in the snow.

    Chris.
    #36
  37. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    Depends if they specifically tested DSG in snow.
    It's entirely possibly that whilst the A3 went through winter testing,DSG variants didn't.
    I can't see them testing every variant in all conditions.

    The way the driver's door dumps snow all over the seat when you open it actually makes me wonder if they did any winter testing AT ALL though...
    #37
  38. HeliChris
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    HeliChris Learning to fly 3D

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    It just suprises me.

    Chris.
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  39. southpaw66
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    I believe all variants will be winter tested, but as it behaves like any normal automatic so there's no problem as such.
    #39
  40. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member

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    They will almost certainly do winter testing and with DSG fitted cars as well. After all they sell DSG cars in Scandanavia, Switzerland and Austria for example where they have a lot more snow during the year than any part of the UK.

    But they may well do their testing with winter tyres as it is normal to fit them in these countires and it's a legal requirement as well in some. In the UK we have so little real snow that we never seem to consider having a set of winter tyres and expect our normal wide tyres to cope with all situations.

    I've driven my DSG fitted car on snow covered roads both here and in Austria with little real problem, all be it only a thin layer of snow in each case.
    #40

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