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Dropping an S4 engine in a 99.5 TQS?

Discussion in 'A4/S4 forum(B5 Chassis)' started by Jpc, Dec 8, 2007.

  1. Jpc
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    Jpc Member

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    Anyone done this? I'm just wondering how possible this would be? And what you reckon it may cost to get it done properly? Providing I sourced a stock or mildly tuned engine and ecu.

    Yes you are gonna say buy an S4 instead but i'm kinda attached :)
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  2. jcb
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    jcb Active Member

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    answered your own question.....if you are worried about cost...don;t do it.
    why not just big turbo the lump you have. you can get a good 3-400 out of a solid built bottom end on a 1.8/2.0t.
    I am buidling a 2.0l 20v with GT2871 - should see off most S4's even chipped ones
    #2
  3. Jpc
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    Jpc Member

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    yep I see where you are coming from, I should of said that Iwas wanting more cubes can't get used to the 4 pot!

    Guess I was just wondering how much it would cost to fit with everything else that's needed like uprated brakes etc or even an educated one, cost isn't that important tbh.

    Prviding the cost will be ridiculous what would it cost to get 300bhp out the existing lump?
    #3
  4. Blue_Thunder
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    Blue_Thunder Active Member

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    Check out one of the site sponsors: http://www.backdraftmotorsport.com/

    £3800+vat for 325 bhp... then if that's not enough, they do a mortgage sized 400bhp conversion
    :hubbahubba:
    Mind you, for what they charge for the 400bhp conversion on the 1.8T, you could actually buy a high miler S4 and do a 400bhp conversion on it for less!
    #4
  5. Siena
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    Siena Active Member

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    Talk to me regarding the conversion, either on here, or send me a PM.
    #5
  6. satans child
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    satans child project...satans child

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    seems as if i have started a trend of people taking there perfectly good cars and then pulling them to bits...

    personaly i woulnt bother wasting the money just buy an s4.. altho i do admire anyone whos prepared to get stuck in themselfs....
    and i hope you have a car you love after.

    i have 3 so i know that they are cracking cars.. all the best to you:icon_thumright:
    just be prepared for some head aches on the way...
    #6
  7. Jpc
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    Jpc Member

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    yep I realise hat, all the boost leak problems and looking after 2x k03's!

    Hmm I wonder if a newer v8 s4 eng would fit??

    #7
  8. Siena
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    Siena Active Member

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    V8 would fit, though front panel will require surgery, and probably need to junk the stock fans for slimline electric ones.
    #8
  9. Siena
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    Siena Active Member

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    New S4 V8 is slightly shorter than regular 4.2, as the timing arrangement is different, and all at the bulkhead end of the unit.

    Chains.
    #9
  10. Jpc
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    Jpc Member

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    Hmm sure would make an interesting project a v8 B5.....Siena I got ur pm and will give you a shout when I have a sec to talk I've got a 8 month old here and he's a handfull lol.
    #10
  11. Jpc
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    Jpc Member

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    What did the 400bhp conv cost you? Is ur MPG shot?
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  12. Blue_Thunder
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    Blue_Thunder Active Member

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    You don't want to know (and I don't like to think about it).

    I bought the car for £7500 in Oct 2006 and I've spent quite a bit more than twice that on parts, labour and insurance since i've owned it.

    This car has started an obsession bordering on lunacy...
    :jester:
    #12
  13. Jpc
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    Jpc Member

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    Ouch that sounds like an addiction lol.
    My GF would have my nuts on the dresser for that :)
    #13
  14. Siena
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    Siena Active Member

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    Lol, my project's costing me serious dough. But, my girlfriend knows I'm the man of the house, as long as the bills are paid, and she gets to do her expensive shopping, she can't beef.
    #14
  15. Jpc
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    Jpc Member

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    As soon as I read ur post Siena I just thought that christ thats gonna cost some serious $£££££!

    On what i've picked up on it sounds like you will get a good discount on audi parts and will be doing all the mechanical work urself but even then just the sheer expense of all of the body parts along with fitting and spraying would be huge!

    For me to buy an s v8 allong with tranny etc, rs4 brakes, wheels and to get it all fitted I'm guessing it would be about 10k so I'm guessing urs is gonna hit about 15kish.

    That then got me thinking, highish miler rs4 avant == 20k ish so presuming u got ur base car cheap then you will still have a hell of a car for the coin
    #15
  16. Siena
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    Siena Active Member

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    Jpc, more than that amount you've quoted.
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  17. mwarrey
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    mwarrey Member

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    I really can't see the point in trying to turn a 1.8tq into an S4 when you can buy an S4 so cheaply. Its going to cost you more and be no end of hassle.
    #17
  18. mattfinn
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    mattfinn Smoking is good for you

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    Buy my S4 lol! Chuck a few quid at it and be knocking on the door of 400bhp!
    #18
  19. jcb
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    jcb Active Member

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    Sorry don't want to hijack the thread but thought I might provide some comparison for those looking at big builds or engine conversions.
    I have recently did the rough numbers on what I have spent on my build.
    It has taken time to source parts and I have fabricated some parts to bring costs down, sold some bits to pay for other etc etc.
    my base car cost me £6500 around 18-24months ago
    you could do things cheaper but with patience and some hard work you CAN get 400bhp for much less than £3k.
    I went for a bored and stroked bottom end that will support significantly more, but I don't like doing things twice. I am also doing this with a spare block so I have a full stock engine to sell on if I wanted to to cover some of the cost.
    You could substitute the turbo I chose for any GT30 on a 1.8 with stock pistons, forged rods, use a cast mani, £100 eBay 3" downpipe and slash cost off my numbers below.
    The costs below are actual costs I have paid, not just estimates on a wish list.

    For reference a GT2871 .56 trim on an off the shelf APR stage 3 tune fitted to a 1.8t BAM engine in a TT produced 310bhp (at the wheels) at 20+psi. They (APR) estimate this to be around 380bhp at the flywheel.
    [​IMG]
    I will be disappointed if I don't have between 325-350bhp atw with my build. that is over 400bhp (fw) by most estimates.

    any number of these on lesser builds running low 300's atw
    http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3502059&postid=42689825#42689825

    costs:

    Engine
    Block £0.00 (courtesy of Macca! cheers)
    83mm bore/hone £75.00
    Scat Rods 144mm US$349.00 £171.00
    Supertech Pistons 83mm 9:1 $599.00 £295.00
    Main Bearings US$67.00 £33.00
    83mm head gasket US$85.00 £41.80
    Raceware Headstuds US $269.00 £132.50
    Raceware Main Studs $165.00 £81.28
    Supertech In.&Ex. Valves $469.00 £231.03
    SuperTech Titanium spring/retainers $469.00 £231.03
    92.8mm forged Crankshaft US$300.00 £147.78 (polished and magnafluxed)
    630cc Injectors CA$300 £150.00
    spare DBW ECU CA$200 £100.00
    Tapp Auto Map CA$700 £350.00 (may have it custom done depending on result)
    90mm MAF/Harness CA$200 £100.00
    GT2871 .56 trim £550.00

    Exhaust/Inlet
    Manifold bends and tubing £450.00
    Forge FMIC £0.00
    D/V forge £0.00
    DXD stage 4 clutch US$585+60 £315.00
    2.75" miltek £100 (eBay bargain!)

    Subtotal £3,454.42

    Suspension
    KWV3's £950.00
    full polybushed + suspension work
    inc fitting v3's £1,300.00 (that hurt!) all new front lowers, complete reset of geometry to custom numbers

    Rs6 18"s (5 with tyres) £410.00 (love eBay)

    Brakes
    new 4 pot Porsche calipers+pads £200.00 (love german eBay more!)
    rs4 front\+rear discs and rear calipers £200.00
    adapters/bolts £60.00
    s/s hoses £80.00

    Body
    S4 front bumper £150.00
    " rear £40.00
    "sides £120.00
    misc parts £78.00


    I have/had enough on my plate without a complete engine/loom/fuel/exhaust/inlet conversion to contemplate.
    good luck with whatever you decide
    #19
  20. Soupie69uk
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    Soupie69uk Owner

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    Hey jcb how is your car coming along? You got the brakes and all the suspension fitted?

    Also have you ordered your clutch? I went of the ofe one not the dxd.

    Cheers.
    #20
  21. jcb
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    jcb Active Member

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    ha, slowly!
    I went OFE as well, stage 4 IIRC, bit of confusion about flywheel size being a 2l.
    few changes in schedule as I was meant to be in Canada over christmas, so I may get some stuff done in the holiday...unlikely though with the booze flowing!
    want the engine ready for a dyno by end Feb.
    expect it fully built by end of March in time for spring
    #21
  22. Soupie69uk
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    Soupie69uk Owner

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    Cool sounds good, my clutch should be on its way at the moment. Shame we didnt get them together and split the postage but I got a good deal so it ok.

    Let me know when we can meet up I wanna feel what the car is like with the powerflex bushes and your decent coilovers. I think I want to get H&R arbs next I thought you would have uprated them looking at your list of upgrades.
    #22
  23. Blue_Thunder
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    Blue_Thunder Active Member

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    I'd love a Forge FMIC at that price! Some impressive bargain hunting there.

    I expect someone without the mechanical know how to be paying upwards of £2k to fit all that stuff.

    Did you have to pay vat + import duty on all the parts?
    #23
  24. jcb
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    jcb Active Member

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    agreed, but I always think if you have zero mechanical knowledge then that is what the AMD, Jabba etc kits are there for.
    Write a cheque for £4k get 300bhp. done.

    personally, I am very excited about the sense of acheivement I (hope I) will get from building this up personally and seeing it rip all four tyres off!
    spent a lot of time doing the research to match components and work on putting it all together so I have actually learned something, less interested is actual bar stool bhp.

    as for the FMIC, its not a typo...they used my car to develop the model for the B5 chassis. they had the car while i was on holiday and fitted the new FMIC with all the silicon and recirc stuff as part of the deal

    [​IMG]

    The stuff from the US is coming via a friend...engineering samples you understand
    #24
  25. Jpc
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    Jpc Member

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    Thanks for all your input guys, I've been convinced it's a stupid idea!
    #25
  26. jcb
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    jcb Active Member

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    not stupid, but if you are going to do it at least drop in a twin screw supercharged 4.2l V8 for something different!
    #26
  27. mwarrey
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    mwarrey Member

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    Its not a stupid idea to want to modify cars, there are plenty of people who have done this and got a great deal of satisfaction out of doing it (myself included).

    Many moons ago I spent a small fortune on my Mk1 Golf GTI putting in a 2L 16v, and with a set of very expensive cams and some gasflowing I managed to squeeze out 180bhp which sounds really lame by todays standards. However, at the time the most powerful Golf was the Mk2 1.8L 16v Golf with 139 bhp. So in real terms it was at that time pretty special, as it was something you couldn't just go out and buy.

    So, my point is that it is only worth doing an engine transplant if it makes a car into something that you just can't go out and buy. Otherwise you may as well just go and buy one in the first place. And if you are intending to go down the engine modding route, always start off with the best base car you can i.e. in this case an S4.

    Just remember all you 1.8t modders, a good big one always beats a good little one!
    #27
  28. Jpc
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    Jpc Member

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    I was thinking of dropping a s4 v8 into it, would go mad charged as well might just save my pennies for a b6 s4

    #28
  29. mattfinn
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    mattfinn Smoking is good for you

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    Now you're talking! Those Lysholm 'chargers sound the nuts! :hubbahubba:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxhDLMrlL4Q
    #29

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