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Does B5 1.6 share gearbox with any VW?

Discussion in 'A4/S4 forum(B5 Chassis)' started by Dan Frederiksen, Dec 2, 2007.

  1. Dan Frederiksen
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    Dan Frederiksen It's electric

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    [Dec 2, 2007]
    I'm looking into converting a 1.6L B5 to electric drive (that's right, electric) and to that end I need to make an adapter for the electric motor to go on the gearbox bell housing as well as fit flywheel and clutch. I would like to prepare all this before buying the car so I'm looking for a scrap gearbox I can make the fitting on so it's ready for the real car.
    I've loosely looked around but parts for Audis aren't that frequent on junkyards yet so I was wondering if it shares a gearbox with any VW models which would presumably be much easier to find. it doesn't have to be identical in all aspects, just the bell housing and axle must be identical.

    anyone know if any other car share that design with a 95-96 B5 1.6L?
    maybe the golf III ? or passat

    or know where such info could be found.

    thanks
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  3. Siena
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    Siena Active Member

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    [Dec 2, 2007]
    You'll need either a B5 A4 gearbox, or one from an A6, from '98 - '04, or a VW Passat, '98 - '02.

    Casing part numbers are:

    012 300 047TX
    012 300 052LX
    012 300 054KX
    012 300 053CX
    012 300 053TX
    012 300 052KX
    012 300 049EX
    012 300 061D
    012 300 051QX
    012 300 061D
    012 300 049FX
    012 300 054FX
    012 300 053X
    012 300 049JX
    012 300 054QX
    012 300 049NX
    012 300 061E
    012 300 052EX
    012 300 051RX
    012 300 050RX
    012 300 061G
    012 300 053AX
    012 300 53BX

    It's wort noting the 012 gearboxes all have the same bellhousing pattern (multi) to match 4, 6 and 8 cylinder configurations, so choices are plenty.

    Another option is the gearbox fitted to B3/B4 Audi 80 / 90 / Coupe.

    Some are:

    012 300 045AX
    012 300 041QX
    012 300 043FX
    012 300 043GX
    012 300 047FX
    012 300 048A
    012 300 047X
    012 300 047J
    012 300 048Q
    012 300 047E
    012 300 048R
    012 300 046P

    Note, some of the "X" suffixes after the last alphabet mean exchange, so may not be stamped on a used unit.

    Good luck with your project, and please keep us posted, sounds interesting! :icon_thumright:
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  4. Dan Frederiksen
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    Dan Frederiksen It's electric

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    [Dec 2, 2007]
    wow that looks like good information.
    where did you get it?

    just to be sure, you're not saying all these trannies are identical right? just that my B5 motor will fit all those? they presumably have differences in other aspects, like gear ratio and quattro etc?

    even compatible back to B3 and B4. that should make it easier to find something since that's more likely to be dead by now.

    do you happen to know if the clutch is always the same depth too? maybe just varies in diameter.

    I'll be using a german car. they use same trannies as you mention? no UK, EU issues.

    thanks
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  5. shineydave
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    shineydave Member

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    [Dec 2, 2007]
    an electric car?, neat project, it'd be novel to go quattro with it but i'd guess you'd want to avoid the power sapping transmission losses
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  6. Siena
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    Siena Active Member

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    [Dec 3, 2007]
    Hi, The units I've listed are all FWD, none are quattro. yes, ratios may differ, as well as driveshaft flange sizes, but these are easily transferred over.

    Clutch depth / protrusion is the same on all the units listed. Clutch diameters vary, but the overall diameter of the flywheel remains the same on all.

    No German / UK issues.
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  7. Siena
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    Siena Active Member

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    [Dec 3, 2007]
    The B5 motor will bolt up to ALL the above listed gearboxes, and so will the starter motor, acadamic though, as you won't be using these.

    You'll need specially made suspension springs, especially at the rear, as the lead acid batteries can weigh almost as much as 2 4 cylinder engines.
    #6
  8. Dan Frederiksen
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    Dan Frederiksen It's electric

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    [Dec 5, 2007]
    I will be using a small lithium pack and a light electric motor. even hoping to come in under the weight of the original car : )
    lead acid batteries are actually more expensive now than good lithium because of life span.
    how do you know about battery weight problems? have you looked into electric cars?

    you say flange size can change, that's on the motor right? the tranny shaft is always the same size in your list?
    could you tell me the flange size of a B5 1.6L ?

    also you didn't tell me where you got this information. where is it from?

    thanks
    #7
  9. Siena
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    Siena Active Member

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    [Dec 5, 2007]
    I haven't actually looked into building electric-powered cars, though I've worked on a good few, the Toyota Prius, and 1992 Audi 100 Avant quattro being the main ones.

    Lithium batteries are a hell of a lot lighter, but driving range / reserves are not as good as lead acid.

    Yes, the tranny shaft sizes are the same on all the units, I'm referring to the output flanges from the transaxle, that your driveshafts bolt up to.

    The flange shafts come in 100, 108 and 130MM versions. The B5 1.6 / 1.8 20V non-turbo run 100MM flange shafts, all the rest bar the 2.5TDI, 1.9TDI and later V6 30V run 108MM flange shafts.

    2.5TDI, later 1.9TDI and V6 30V run the larger 130MM flange shafts. But, they are interchangeable between the 100 / 108MM items, but NOT the 130MM ones, as the 130MM flange shafts are also bigger at the point it physically enters the front differential / crownwheel.

    As for where I got the information? I run an Audi main dealer programme, and yes, it's fully legitimate and licenced.
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  10. Dan Frederiksen
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    Dan Frederiksen It's electric

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    [Dec 5, 2007]
    thanks again. very useful information. is the data you use something everyone can purchase? in the form of some official book. or any way to make it public domain. if others should need it.

    regarding lithium batteries I think you have misunderstood something. the very strength of lithium is their much higher energy density that translates into incomparably better range than is achievable with lead acid. the new lithiums are vastly superior to lead acid for EV use. (electric vehicle)

    you have helped so much I hate to impose yet again but if easy could you tell me which B3 and B4 motor sizes are likely to have 100mm flanges if any

    thanks
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  11. Siena
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    Siena Active Member

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    [Dec 5, 2007]
    B3 cars with 100mm flange shafts:
    Audi 80 1.8E (DZ) 1.8E (JN) 1.8S (NE) 1.8 (RU) 2.0E (3A)

    B4 cars with 100mm flange shafts:
    Audi 80 1.6 (ABB / ABM) 2.0 (ABT / ABK)
    #10
  12. Z82
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    Z82 Member

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    [Dec 6, 2007]
    Not yor evey day project, would be good if you could give us progress reports :)
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  13. Dan Frederiksen
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    Dan Frederiksen It's electric

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    [Dec 9, 2007]
    I'll try to keep you up to date : )
    I'm trying to make the motor power electronics for it as well so it is a bit unusual. may never happen
    #12
  14. Jpc
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    Jpc Member

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    [Dec 9, 2007]
    All of VAG's parts database is availible on a program called ETKA there's another one with all of the wiring diagrams on it along with info for mechanics for various things, the name of this eludes me at the minute, funny since I was installing the software at a Seat dealership last week!

    You would normally get the program cd along with a database dvd for either Seat or Audi etc.

    This stuff is only available to dealers etc but I have heard it mentioned that they are availble on torrent sites etc but can't condone that...!
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  15. Dan Frederiksen
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    Dan Frederiksen It's electric

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    [Dec 10, 2007]
    hehe hypocrite but thanks for the pointer. I've seen an ETKA system, even had one installed but I don't remember it as any good. one thing to have a list of parts but without the information about the parts it's not useful. would it have information like flange sizes and mount patterns?
    that's more like engineering information which regular mechanics presumably wouldn't need
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  16. Dan Frederiksen
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    Dan Frederiksen It's electric

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    [Dec 10, 2007]
    shineydave, yes, I would only really consider quattro if it were to be a drag racer for the extra traction
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  17. Jpc
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    Jpc Member

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    [Dec 10, 2007]
    not sure about flange sizes etc but it is prodomantly used by parts people for ordering.
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