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Do you think this is corrosion??

Discussion in 'Detailing' started by jones_g, Mar 23, 2009.

  1. jones_g
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    jones_g New Member

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    [Mar 23, 2009]
    Hi all,

    I washed my car on Saturday and noticed a couple of blemishes on the bottom of one of my doors, its an 03 Audi A4.

    Here's a couple of pics..

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    A couple of weeks ago I took the car to Audi for another paint related problem, this time lacquer peel on the rear quarter panel. Both Audi and a top quality paintshop I went to said the panel hadn't been repainted yet Audi refused to put it right. Here's a pic of that problem

    [​IMG]

    If the top two photo's are the start of corrosion as I'm guessing I want to take it back to Audi again, and get it repaired under the paintwork warranty. Has anybody else had this problem on an A4, and what have been your experiences with getting it repaired??

    Thanks
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  3. jr001
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    jr001 Member

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    [Mar 24, 2009]
    The first pics look like stone chips that have been filled in. They don't look to have been sanded in any way and probably haven't seen a machine polishing stage after that. Looks like they've been filled proud and just left. Doesn't look like rust yet though.

    Peeling clearcoat can be a tricky one to diagnose the root of. Sometimes a sign of painting just up to an edge without going round etc. You will have difficulty with Audi on that one. But again, doesn't look like a rust issue otherwise the rust would affect the primer which would affect the paint and then the clearcoat, rather than clearcoat first.

    I'm still working with Audi UK on my paint issue, not easy but I'm going to get them to admit to some shameful practices if they don't fix it. Looks like you'll have to wait until your first accidental bump in a car park or something to then have it repaired under your protected no-claims.

    Hope this helps.
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  4. WX51TXR
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    WX51TXR Polished Bliss

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    [Mar 24, 2009]
    I can see why John thinks the images show stone chip repairs, but there is the possibility that they are actually showing galvanic corrosion instead (to tell for sure I could do with better quality images). On several RS4's we look after under contract we have seen similar corrosion blisters forming after 12-24 months of ownership. If the paint is simply raised into a bump, then it is usually a sign that a speck of dirt was trapped under the original paint, which has since corroded in situ between the panel and the paint system, causing a localised swelling or blister. To date, one of our customers has had this fixed under warranty, but the problem has since reoccurred in other areas on the car (the rear wheel arches seem to be particularly prone). Moving on to the clearcoat failure, I can't see how Audi can refuse to repair this - clearcoats should not fail like this under any normal circumstance. What excuse have they offered for not fixing the problem under the paint warranty?
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  5. jones_g
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    jones_g New Member

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    [Mar 25, 2009]
    They said that because there are no signs of corrosion they are unwilling to cover it. I told them I have numerous older cars without similar problems, then they said it could have been done by a stone chip (which there is no evidence of). So I said there are other stone chips on the car that haven't reacted in the same way and asked them to do it as a goodwill gesture seeing as the car was less than 6 years old. They then told me they wouldn't do this for me as the last couple of services hadn't been done by the main dealers. So I asked the guy if paint was a serviceable item to which he replied 'we are just looking for loyalty to the brand'. So I asked him how he expected me to be loyal to the brand with servicing when I had only just bought the car a month previously.......

    They obviously just want to get out of paying for it.

    Thanks

    GJ
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  6. WX51TXR
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    WX51TXR Polished Bliss

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    [Mar 26, 2009]
    Aye, a lot of ******* then! We have another local customer currently fighting a similar issue out with Audi in Aberdeen, exactly the same type of problem, which as I said above, looks highly like galvanic corrosion arising from dirt trapped between the panel and the paint system. I'd suggest you take a visit to an independent high quality bodyshop in your area (try the Porsche approved one) and get a first hand expert opinion - if they confirm it is in-depth corrosion, then get this in writing, go back to Audi, tell them to fix it, and if you get any further grief, go straight to Audi UK with a complaint. I would also point out to the chap that made the loyalty comment that EU law states that all cars can be serviced by anyone competant to do so without voiding the manufacturers warranty, so long as official parts are used. You have to love the **** that dealerships come out with sometimes. :laugh:
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  7. jones_g
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    jones_g New Member

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    [Mar 26, 2009]
    Ok mate thanks for the advice I'll give it another go. I took it last time to a bodyshop called chartwell they are top notch and quite local, the closest porsche place is 20 miles away. Chartwell do all the paintwork for audi, ferrari, bentley etc around Derby and I've seen their work its awesome, so I'll take it there for an opinion on the bubbles. I'd just love to have a car without any problems!!!
    #6
  8. Evosid
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    Evosid New Member

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    [May 7, 2009]
    JR,
    Not sure of your knowledge but the pics in question clearly show that the paint is bubbling up from behind the paint. If you were to peel the paint you would find a nice spder web like spot of rust. This is usually cauesed by some impurty between the metal and the paint or impurity in the metal itself which then reacts with the paint to cause the bbble.

    Sid
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  9. Evosid
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    Evosid New Member

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    [May 7, 2009]
    Rich,
    How you doing guys, you fairly get about, no wonder the waiting list is so long :p

    I am not sure if you are reffering to me above but I thought I would update you all on the situation with my corroding Audi.
    Car is an A6 2007 with 50K miles in Daytona Grey and shows exactly the same problems as the pics by the OP.
    Anyway I found Audi Aberdeen Bodyshop / paint warranty people unable to resolve the situation to my satisfaction I :pnot get an answer from Audi. So I contacted Audi and told them that I would like an Independent Paint inspection done. The paint inpspector was a very nice gent who drove from Yorkshire to Aberdeenshire to look at my car. On first glance he IMMDEITAELY agreed with me that the bubbling of the paint was caused by Zinc Inclusions in the metal. Upon further questioning he also reveaed that if I accepted a repair by Aberdeen Audi (or any other Warranty Approved bodyshop) would result in the painted panels NOT being covered by AUDI UK:confused: The liabilty woould transfer to the bodyshop and I am not sure that Aberdeen Audi will be honour the warranty on the affected panels for another 10 years. Anyway I was o the phone to Audi Uk and told them politely that I would like the reapir to all 4 doors to be carried out but would only accept 4 new doors painted at the factory so the warranty stayed intact. Went t see Aberdeen Audi yesterday and they said that theere is NO chance of gettig 4 doors from the factory ready painted, best would be 4 doors painted by them. Also it would be impossible to get the paintwork exact without painting the front wings and rear qaurter panels as well. So my car will need both sides painted ie 6 panels plus laquer is peeling on bumper and it will require painting as well so that is 7 panels out of 10. Not happy and I told Aberdeen Audi this. After some discussion on how t proceed they have said they will ask Audi to replace th car, but I may have to pay something towards it due to the mileage. I now await there reponse and if this does not come soon then I wil park my car in Aberdeen Audi's car park and return the keys and get my solictor to reject the car and demand fully money back.

    Sid

    Ps for the long post but I just hate poor service from these so called "premium" dealers / manufaturer's
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  10. jones_g
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    jones_g New Member

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    [May 8, 2009]
    Hi,

    Well I took my car in to Audi again and saw a different paint guy this time. He looked at the bubbles I posted pictures of on this thread and told me that he could see the paint was broken from the outside and that the bubbles were reactions stone chips. I argued the point for about 15 minutes that there are loads of other stone chips around the car that hadn't reacted in the same way but he wouldn't have it. He said they wouldn't do the repair as they couldn't be sure it hadn't been painted previously (even though his paint gauge show around 130micron). I said that was a load of rubbish and he replied that the amount of Orange Peel made him think that it had been painted. He then said that Audi's paint is so good they dont have Orange Peel!

    So I took him over to an 09 plated TT parked about 3 bays away and showed him Orange Peel to the same degree as on my car - eat your words mate.

    Anyway he refused to help me out. You buy an Audi expecting it to be good quality, I know to a large degree that depends on how its been looked after before but to have these problems on a less than 6 year old car is awful. I've had loads of cars before without the same problem.

    Its put a bit of a downer on having a car I've always thought would be nice to have
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  11. Evosid
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    Evosid New Member

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    [May 8, 2009]
    Jones g,
    Don't give up mate. Take it to another Audi dealer and ask them to help. But do NOT mention you have been to another dealer and been refused. If this fails ask Audi to have an independent paint inspectin done as the onus is on the manufacturer to prove there is NOt a problem.
    Hope this helps.
    Sid
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  12. WX51TXR
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    WX51TXR Polished Bliss

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    [May 14, 2009]
    Good man Sid, cheers for sharing your experience - to anyone with a similar problem; do what Sid says, as there are a lot of uneducated idiots working at dealerships who will tell you all sorts of porkies about paint problems if it suits them and their profit margins to do so... :yes:
    #11
  13. KarenCaren
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    KarenCaren Member

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    [May 15, 2009]
    I don't see any corrosion or rust. For me, the paint is just feeling off which means that the paint job is not good. You can go to any audi dealer to inspect the paint and make them sure they will fix it.


    ________________
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  14. al pal
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    al pal New Member

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    [Mar 8, 2010]
    Washed my 2008 A4 on the weekend and you can imagine my surprise when a 5cm patch of clearcoat peeled off in the centre of the bonnet!!!! Sounds like I need some luck getting Audi to fix it... Maybe I washed the car too much lol.

    OH BTW, anyone with experience of holding Audi to account over corroded annodised aluminium window trim? I must be driving through acid rain or something!
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2010
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  15. JD09
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    JD09 I'm not modding, I'm improving VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 8, 2010]
    Wow that is some bump!

    The only advice I can offer is to ask and keep on asking. The more dealerships and people you ask, the better. Then elevate it if they don't agree to refurb the paint work.
    #14
  16. The Doctor
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    The Doctor Well-Known Member

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    [Mar 8, 2010]
    I also have almost exactly the same issue as jones_g on my 2003 S3; small "blisters" on the rear quarter panels just in front of the rear wheel arches. I've had it looked at by an independent VAG specialist who said the same thing - "galvanic corrosion". There is no sign of any rust.

    Given that my car is now 6 1/2 years old, is there any point going back to Audi? I am not sure how long the body/paintwork warranty lasts for. The rest of the paintwork is untouched and free of any marks / swirls so I really don't want to get it re-sprayed unless I have to.

    Is the metal actually rusting or has the paint just blistered slightly? Will this get worse over time?

    Thanks for any advice.
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  17. A3Tom
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    A3Tom Smell my finger.

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    [Mar 9, 2010]
    Yes take it back as you should have 5.5 years worth of warranty left to use up :)

    Min went in after 8 years and its just been inspected again today for something else...10 years old this year.

    Worth an ask mate.
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  18. The Doctor
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    The Doctor Well-Known Member

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    [Mar 9, 2010]
    Thanks Tom, I'll do that. So to be clear, Audi give a 12-year paintwork warranty, right? Is that against anything specific (eg it is often a warranty against perforation rather than corrosion)? Want to get my facts right.

    PS - my refurbed Anthracite Avus 17's are looking good against the silver paintwork!
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  19. jr001
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    jr001 Member

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    [Oct 20, 2010]
    Evosid, I've now experienced this myself on the B7, with mirror image spots on the lower rear wheel arches. Absolutely identical points on the lower, not even God could have got it so identical TBH. Yes, it's definetely galvanic corrosion and my Audi tech told me that's what it was before he sent the pics to Audi UK. The thing is, for most car users, they are quite difficult to notice unless you get intimate in some way with the paintwork.

    You take the car to your local dealership and they take pics and paint thickness measurements and then send off their evaluation to Audi UK, who then act on that advice and inform you of authorisation to have the work carried out at approved Audi bodyshop. There's generally no problem there.

    Have now got 5 spots on the B6 now and I've measured the paint thickness myself and it's factory levels on each affected panel, so I've no doubt Audi UK will respray the areas under warranty (it's 12 years by the way for corrosion from the metal up - as long as the panel has not been painted by anybody else - your corrosion warranty is invalid after that).

    As for the **** window trims, they used to replace them ONCE under warranty, but not a second time. They are a right bitch and there's not a lot that you can do with them, even using a variety of different grades of polishes and a rotary has no real lasting effect in my experience.
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  20. jimmy77
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    jimmy77 Member

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    [Oct 20, 2010]
    interesting thread, so will audi replace the chrome door trims then under warranty? ive tried allsorts to bring them back up to no avail!! am guesing you just ask them to change them under the anti corrosion warranty?
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  21. jr001
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    jr001 Member

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    [Oct 20, 2010]
    The one dealership I spoke to said they carried out the replacement as part of the 3-yr warranty, I don't think it's a 12-yr anti-corrosion warranty thing. And the guy said it would only be replaced once and not thereafter. I'm not sure what other dealerships are doing on the matter.

    They gave me one of the rear door trims to take away and use the metal polishes and rotary on and I managed to improve it a lot after half an hour solid and using a heavy cut then fine cut grade, but the problem is that the trim isn't actually the metal chrome itself. And there are some stains that will just not budge even under the influence of the rotary polisher. It's the heavy alkaline Traffic Film Remover chemicals in car foaming outlets that is the cause.

    I've also noticed that the effect seems to be far worse on my B7 trims than on the B6 ones. My B7s were milky white but my B6s still have a bit of sparkle to them even in low light.

    Also, it only appears to be the horizontal door trim and the L-shaped one at the rear window that are affetced. The rest of the upper trim around the A-pillar and glass panels appear to be fine.
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2010
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  22. auroan
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    auroan Active Member

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    [Oct 20, 2010]
    Just to comment on the brand loyality thing earlier.... if you read the T&Cs of the paint and corrosion warrenties; It states that the warrenty is only valid if the car has been serviced by Audi dealerships throughout it's life. This is because part of the offical main dealer service schedule is to inspect the car for any body work issues. This is so a problem can be detected quickly and fixed under warrenty before the fix gets more expensive further down the line.

    The paint and corrosion warrenty isn't cover'd by the EU block excemption and is a totally seperate entertity to the std 3 yr / 60,000 mile warrenty.
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  23. TDIQ
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    TDIQ 8L > 8P > 8V

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    [Oct 20, 2010]
    Where did you see this? Brighton Audi refused to cover my rusting door due to it "having been resprayed" which is a load of rubbish.
    Worthing Audi tried to fight their way out of dealing with my warranty claim, and used the old "doesn't have main dealer history" trick.

    I pointed them to the corrosion T&Cs as it doesn't say anything about having to be serviced with Audi.

    Anyway, once I'd done that they messed me about for a couple more weeks, but after threatening to inform Audi customer service head office of their antics, they quickly changed their tune, and leant me a brand spanking 1.4t A3 whilst they were at it. I think they were trying to fob me off for being young, but they did a great job (in the end!).
    #22
  24. TDIQ
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    TDIQ 8L > 8P > 8V

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    [Oct 20, 2010]
    Three-year paint warranty

    All Audi vehicles are provided with a warranty for a period of three years from the date of first registration against any
    manufacturing defects with the paintwork.

    The only preconditions are:

    • The defect must be reported to a member of the Audi authorised network as soon as it is discovered. This must, of course, be
    within the warranty period

    • The defect must not be due to external influences such as accident damage, climatic, thermal, chemical or industrial
    pollution, insufficient care or maintenance. This will be determined by a member of the Audi authorised network at the
    time of inspection.

    Body protection warranty

    All current Audi vehicles are fully protected during manufacture against rust attacking the internal cavities of the bodywork for
    12 years from the date of first registration.

    The only preconditions are:

    • The defect must be reported to a member of the Audi authorised network as soon as it is discovered. This must, of course, be
    within the warranty period

    • The perforation must not have been caused originally by damage, neglect, insufficient care or maintenance, or by
    external perforation from the inside out

    • A member of the Audi authorised network must be advised about any perforation from the inside out immediately it is found

    • All body repairs will be carried out promptly in accordance with the manufacturer’s technical guidelines, using only approved
    parts and materials, in order to maintain the original level of anti-corrosion protection


    Taken from http://www.audi.co.uk/content/dam/a...ingProducts/warranty-terms-and-conditions.pdf
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  25. auroan
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    auroan Active Member

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    [Oct 21, 2010]
    Ah...... Interesting I see the document posted is just the General terms and conditions rather than the complete terms and conditions. The document I was shown at York was about 30 A4 pages thick when I was going through the corrosion argument with another A4 I used to own.
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  26. TDIQ
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    TDIQ 8L > 8P > 8V

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    [Oct 21, 2010]
    I've not read all of it but they can't really have one set of terms and conditions and then another set that they add one when they suits them. What it boils down to though is that you don't need to have the car serviced at a main dealer for the corrosion warranty claim. I don't think you need it for paint warranty claims, either, as it doesn't say anything in the T&Cs.
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  27. auroan
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    auroan Active Member

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    [Oct 21, 2010]
    There's a difference between adding stuff to the full terms and conditions... and just showing a small "general" excerpt on the web site though.

    However what i was shown by the Audi dealership was the guidelines, procedures and terms and conditions set out by Audi UK to Audi Dealerships. Remember that the warrenty details posted on Audi's website are for current new Audi purchases.

    The warrenty for when the OP's Audi was first made may well have been different to the warrenty now. I know for def that the warrenty offered on the B5 A4 is quite different to the B6 and B7 warrenty. Hence the thickess of the warrenty docs I was shown when arguing with my local dealership, as it covered the warrenty details for each model line going back 15 years.
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2010
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