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Disk and Pad fitting - how to?

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by AL_B, Dec 18, 2005.

  1. AL_B
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    AL_B Active Member

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    [Dec 18, 2005]
    Hi,

    Has anyone got any tips or even a "how to" on how to fit new front disks and pads?

    Oh, and how put in new brake fluid and how to bleed them etc.

    Cheers

    AL

    PS: never tried anything like this before, so detailed steps would be appreciated.
    #1
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  3. god_thats_quick
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    god_thats_quick Numptie of the highest order

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    [Dec 18, 2005]
    To change Discs and Pads (Front S3 Calipers) - From experience

    -Jack Car etc.
    -Remove wheel and disconnect wear indicator if fitted.
    -Remove pop on covers then Guide Pins (7mm Hex / Allen key) - this free's caliper from caliper carrier.
    -Remove Pads (just pulls out from piston should make sense after looking at the new ones) - Support Caliper from suspension spring (a few long cable ties is useful or string etc)
    -Remove bleed cover, attach bleed hose or anything to catch fluid coming out (its not nice stuff so you don't really want it on your hands)
    -Loosen bleed bolt - push in caliper (large G clamp or caliper winder can be used - worth buying the tool especially if your doing the rears at some point - it's only £10 ish from halfrauds)
    -Re tighten bleed bolt as soon as piston is pushed back in.
    -Remove caliper Carriers (Two 18mm bolts - remove pad wear indicator connector to make life easier)
    -Remove retaining Screw on disc - this WILL be a bitch if you have luck like me! Make sure you use the correct screw bit and soak in WD40 before trying seriously if stuck needed a lot of force to get mine to budge - quite common for bolts to snap. one broke off in the hub so I had to resort to making a new screw thread opposite on the hub. Shouldn't be this bad most of the time though.

    You should now be able to replace both the disc and the pads if you follow the reverse - may be worth buying new disc screws from audi but the new ones will be torx (much better).

    Nothing needs replacing but it's worth checking the seals on the pistons and giving everying a good clean then using copper grease on the sliding sections (the surfaces where the ends of the pads touch the calipers is the key one - along with cleaning the guide pins and regreasing them) Also worth having some break cleaner handy if you get anything you shouldn't on the discs - like your manky greesy hands!

    Doing the fluid has been discussed a lot but everyone (pretty much) seems to recommend getting it done by a garage if it needs changing as it's a lot of effort and to do the job right you really need the VAG tools to empty and refill the ABS pump etc.

    If you've got any other questions let me know - I've spent a long time buggering around with the front brakes and suspension over the last two months.

    It's a good sense of achievement when you get it done - IMO! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/woohoo.gif

    PS - www.eurocarparts.com and www.vwspares.co.uk are good for parts.
    #2
  4. Khufu
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    Khufu Active Member

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    [Dec 18, 2005]
    It's really quite easy Al, often the hardest part is getting the discs off. The retaining screw that holds the disc on is often a bugger to get off without rounding and once you do, you may have to batter and heat the discs to get them off - especially with your spirted driving!

    If the allen screw doesn't seem to want to come off, you would be best to heat it if possible and avoid rounding it. When you do get them off, make sure the surface of the hub is very clean and smooth or you could feel it through your brakes later. I usually wire brush the slides of the calipers and coat with copperslip after 1st testing the fit of the pads - some fit better that others and may need a bit of filing to avoid binding.

    The above are worst case and usually on older vehicles too. I bet you will have both sides done in 2 hrs max!
    #3
  5. Khufu
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    Khufu Active Member

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    [Dec 18, 2005]
    lol, took me so long to type that you beat me to it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
    #4
  6. AL_B
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    AL_B Active Member

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    [Dec 18, 2005]
    Thanks for the detailed advice lads.

    If it's going to be a bitch, it will be a bitch for me, I just know it.

    Whats the size /name of this disk retaining screw?

    Cheers

    AL
    #5
  7. AL_B
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    AL_B Active Member

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    [Dec 18, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    To change Discs and Pads (Front S3 Calipers) - From experience

    -Jack Car etc.
    -Remove wheel and disconnect wear indicator if fitted.
    -Remove pop on covers then Guide Pins (7mm Hex / Allen key) - this free's caliper from caliper carrier.
    -Remove Pads (just pulls out from piston should make sense after looking at the new ones) - Support Caliper from suspension spring (a few long cable ties is useful or string etc)
    -Remove bleed cover, attach bleed hose or anything to catch fluid coming out (its not nice stuff so you don't really want it on your hands)
    -Loosen bleed bolt - push in caliper (large G clamp or caliper winder can be used - worth buying the tool especially if your doing the rears at some point - it's only £10 ish from halfrauds)
    -Re tighten bleed bolt as soon as piston is pushed back in.
    -Remove caliper Carriers (Two 18mm bolts - remove pad wear indicator connector to make life easier)
    -Remove retaining Screw on disc - this WILL be a bitch if you have luck like me! Make sure you use the correct screw bit and soak in WD40 before trying seriously if stuck needed a lot of force to get mine to budge - quite common for bolts to snap. one broke off in the hub so I had to resort to making a new screw thread opposite on the hub. Shouldn't be this bad most of the time though.

    You should now be able to replace both the disc and the pads if you follow the reverse - may be worth buying new disc screws from audi but the new ones will be torx (much better).

    Nothing needs replacing but it's worth checking the seals on the pistons and giving everying a good clean then using copper grease on the sliding sections (the surfaces where the ends of the pads touch the calipers is the key one - along with cleaning the guide pins and regreasing them) Also worth having some break cleaner handy if you get anything you shouldn't on the discs - like your manky greesy hands!

    Doing the fluid has been discussed a lot but everyone (pretty much) seems to recommend getting it done by a garage if it needs changing as it's a lot of effort and to do the job right you really need the VAG tools to empty and refill the ABS pump etc.

    If you've got any other questions let me know - I've spent a long time buggering around with the front brakes and suspension over the last two months.

    It's a good sense of achievement when you get it done - IMO! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/woohoo.gif

    PS - www.eurocarparts.com and www.vwspares.co.uk are good for parts.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    So parts that I need then:-

    Caliper wind-up tool
    Brake cleaner
    Copper grease
    Gloves
    Bleeding kit?

    Anything else?

    What torque does this disk retaining screw need to be set at?

    Cheers

    AL
    #6
  8. god_thats_quick
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    god_thats_quick Numptie of the highest order

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    [Dec 19, 2005]
    The retaining screw is only there to make putting the car back together easier, lots of cars don't even use them and I've driven around without one for 3 weeks.

    I bought them from Audi - they got them from germany within 2 days, then just did the new ones up hand tight (loose) after checking everything was clean etc. Halfords etc will not have these screws (I asked). I only had a problem with one wheel, one other the screw couldn't really be reused but was ok getting 3 of the 4 out. I found the best way was soak in WD40 for a few mins will sitting and wondering how annoying this one is going to be. Then use the correct size bit on a wrench (socket set jobbie) allows you to push against the screw and turn at the same time.

    Your list is correct I'd say with the exception of the new screws from Audi - There flat top M6 countersunk machine screws BTW.

    The bleed kit I used is a tube leading to a sealed box so you don't get messy - worked a treat.
    The caliper wind back tool will only be really helpful if doing the rears you can make do for the fronts, but if you want to be sure. Halfords sell both of these. The one thing I noticed is that most normal allen key sets don't have a 7mm key for the guide pin so it's worth checking you've got one.

    Good Luck and it's really not that hard, any questions let me know /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
    #7
  9. HTC
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    HTC Active Member

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    [Dec 19, 2005]
    As a note. You don't need to loosen the bleed nipple at each caliper to push the piston back in.
    Just need to keep an eye on the fluid level at the master cylinder.
    Maybe loosen the cap a little to relieve any pressure.
    #8
  10. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Dec 19, 2005]
    OK - Fluid wise. Your not changing it for a different spec, so they can mix, which means you dont need to flush the system. The Fluid is also blue, so you know, when bleeding them, where the old fluid stops and the new starts! Work your way round the car, do the front and then the rear. Bleed the brakes until the resevoir is at the minimum and then fill it with the new fluid (DO NOT GO BELOW MINIMUM!). Then work your way round the car bleeding each caliper until the new fluid starts to come through, and making sure the resevoir is kept full. If you buy a bleeder kit that pushes the fluid through, its not something you have to worry about.

    HTH

    Rich

    ps - Not as thorough a change as if the system is emptied first, but it wont make much of a difference!
    #9
  11. AL_B
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    AL_B Active Member

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    [Dec 19, 2005]
    Cheers Rich. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif

    AL
    #10
  12. god_thats_quick
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    god_thats_quick Numptie of the highest order

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    [Dec 19, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    As a note. You don't need to loosen the bleed nipple at each caliper to push the piston back in.
    Just need to keep an eye on the fluid level at the master cylinder.
    Maybe loosen the cap a little to relieve any pressure.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I understood Audi don't recommend pushing the pistons back without bleeding as it can damage the seals further back up the system, that said I doubt it would.
    #11
  13. AL_B
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    AL_B Active Member

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    [Dec 20, 2005]
    Has anyone got any pictures of the bleed bolt. Just so I know in advance which thing I have to undo - or is it completely obvious?

    To do the bleeding, do I just pump the pedal, or use VAG-COM?

    Cheers

    AL
    #12
  14. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Dec 20, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Has anyone got any pictures of the bleed bolt. Just so I know in advance which thing I have to undo - or is it completely obvious?

    To do the bleeding, do I just pump the pedal, or use VAG-COM?

    Cheers

    AL

    [/ QUOTE ]

    If your not using a bleeding system (E-z bleed or similar) Then you need someelse to help you!

    Rich
    #13
  15. chrisb
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    chrisb Member

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    [Dec 20, 2005]


    I understood Audi don't recommend pushing the pistons back without bleeding as it can damage the seals further back up the system, that said I doubt it would.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    There is a small chance of damaging the pump, and that is very expensive.
    #14
  16. god_thats_quick
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    god_thats_quick Numptie of the highest order

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    [Dec 20, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Has anyone got any pictures of the bleed bolt. Just so I know in advance which thing I have to undo - or is it completely obvious?

    Cheers

    AL

    [/ QUOTE ]

    As no one else seems to have answered this yet... The bleed bolt is very obvious (you can't miss it) so if your just changing the discs etc then you don't need to worry about having two people as you won't need to do any bleeding other than the fluid that will come out when your pushing the piston back in.
    #15
  17. AL_B
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    AL_B Active Member

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    [Dec 21, 2005]
    Thanks a lot mate.

    AL
    #16
  18. HTC
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    HTC Active Member

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    [Dec 21, 2005]
    Yah, bleed nipple is the one with the rubber cap on it.
    #17
  19. AL_B
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    AL_B Active Member

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    [Dec 29, 2005]
    Well guys. I took the easy way out with this one I'm afraid.

    Prior to my original post, I had contacted Awesome GTi, which is just round the corner from me. They couldn't fit me in before Christmas they said. However I got a surprise phone call from them on the 22nd, saying they had a cancellation. So I went for it, and they fitted the brakes.

    They were very swift, only took the mechanic 1 and three quarter hours to do the lot. Great customer service too from Dean. Although they don't offer free coffee like AmD do!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

    Anyway. Question. Are the brakes supposed to sound so LOUD?! When braking, even light braking, from motorway speeds, the noise is extremely loud. Not sure if I can put up with it to be honest.

    Cheers

    AL
    #18
  20. Khufu
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    Khufu Active Member

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    [Dec 29, 2005]
    which combo did you go for? I had greenstuff on my old BMW and it sounded like a plane landing, kinda a woooo noise. Wasnt too loud though.
    #19
  21. AL_B
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    AL_B Active Member

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    [Dec 29, 2005]
    EBC Turbo Groove Disks and Greenstuff
    #20
  22. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Dec 29, 2005]
    That'll be why they are noisy!

    You'll always get a loud rumbling sort of noise from grooved disks...you'll get used to it.
    #21
  23. AL_B
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    AL_B Active Member

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    [Dec 29, 2005]
    Cheers Glen. It took me by surprise. No one ever really mentioned the noise.

    Like you say I'll get used to it.

    AL
    #22
  24. DavidR
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    DavidR Active Member

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    [Dec 29, 2005]
    Green stuff sound especially loud whilst bedding in - whistle turning to rumble as you slow down. Mine settled down after a few hundred miles.... then fell to bits... oops.
    #23
  25. AL_B
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    AL_B Active Member

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    [Dec 30, 2005]
    Thanks for the warning David.
    #24
  26. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Dec 30, 2005]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Green stuff sound especially loud whilst bedding in - whistle turning to rumble as you slow down. Mine settled down after a few hundred miles.... then fell to bits... oops.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    That's one of lifes mysteries...

    How can someone who uses their brakes so little, destroy them so quickly? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
    #25
  27. god_thats_quick
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    god_thats_quick Numptie of the highest order

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    [Dec 30, 2005]
    Not sure there's anything but sarcasm in that post Glen so maybe a change of signature is in order! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
    #26
  28. Dani_B19
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    Dani_B19 Audi-sports own special child.

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    [Feb 11, 2009]
    Sorry to revive this thread but im hopefully going to change all the disks and pads on the s3, ive got everything but these screws, what screws do i need to get exactly? cheers.
    #27
  29. cjhill
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    cjhill hmmmmm interesting.

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    [Feb 12, 2009]
    WOW thats the best thread resurrection i've ever seen ! Good effort


    The screw i believe your talking about is the small screw that helps hold the disc onto the hub, really only useful to help you install it. It doesnt do anything important after that, alot of cars dont have one.

    (the disc is mainly held on by the main wheel bolts)

    I would fit them if you can, if they look knackered get some new ones - dealer should have them.
    #28
  30. fingermouse
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    fingermouse thats me

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    [Feb 12, 2009]
    the screw are just m4 or m5 countersunk any bolt supplier should have them, my new discs came with new screws
    #29
  31. Dani_B19
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    Dani_B19 Audi-sports own special child.

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    [Feb 12, 2009]
    Thanks for the sarcasim, that aside, im guessing ill need 4 then because im doing the front and back!
    #30
  32. fingermouse
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    fingermouse thats me

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    [Feb 12, 2009]
    havn`t done the back but will be doing them soon as they have a big lip on them. Didn`t the new disc come with new screws??? you could always use the ones that hold the current discs on. I find a impack wrench is the best thing to undo them
    #31
  33. ianysm
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    ianysm Active Member

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    [Feb 12, 2009]
    I'm terrible at those sort of DIY jobs so i wouldn't ever tackle it. Don't mind interior electrical stuff cos at least i can shut the door and be inside the car and less oily and dirty!!!
    #32
  34. cjhill
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    cjhill hmmmmm interesting.

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    [Feb 14, 2009]
    yuo could use the existing screws. When you put them back on though, just do them up finger tight. Easier next time then.
    #33
  35. Ian W
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    Ian W Active Member

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    [Feb 14, 2009]
    I had to drill the disc screws on mine as they were well jammed up.

    Never bothered replacing them, if five wheel bolts on holding the disc in place then a little M6 won't do much lol
    #34

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