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Dilemma! 210bhp or 225bhp? HELP NEEDED!

hootz Sep 1, 2011

  1. hootz

    hootz New Member

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    Hi Guys...noob alert,

    I am in the market for an S3, and I would ideally like a Ming Blue with Avus alloys. I have found two that I am interested in but want some advice.

    1) 2001(facelift), 210bhp with 42,000miles on it for £5000


    2) 2003, 225bhp with 40,000 on it for £8500


    How can there be a £3.5k difference in price, both a low mileage, yer one is two years older but £3.5k!!!!

    Basically what I want to know is, am I better off looking for a 225 rather than a 210? Is one engine better than the other, will I notice this stock? Is the 2003 way over-priced? Surely with 3.5k in my hand the 210 is a better option?

    I just can't get it out of my head that I should be going for the more powerful model!


    Any help would be great!

    Hootz
     
  2. Westy

    Westy Well-Known Member

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    You wont really notice much difference as stock and both remap to the same power. The 210 and 225 is in ps not BHP so the 225 isn't all that impressive really. If I was you I'd get the 210 and use the £3.5K to do any work that might need doing to the car.
     
  3. beanoir

    beanoir Large Member

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    Depends really. I bought mine about a month ago and I wasn't too fussed about the choice of engines, I was more bothered about having a facelift car. Reason I wasn't too bothered is that I knew i'd be re-mapping it pretty soon after getting it. You will notice the 2 different cars if you drive them back to back, it's not massive but it is noticeable.

    If you're not going to re-map it then i'd try and get a 225 if you can, but i wouldn't pay that much more for one. To put it into perspective I paid £4,500 for a late 2001 225 model with 65k miles, full serive history, 1 owner from new and in mint condition with absolutley no adverse history. I do aknowledge I may have been lucky with the car and that it may be worth a bit more than what I paid for it, but it goes to show that bargains can be had if you look about.

    In answer to your question, yes I think the 2003 model is a bit overpriced even for a complete minter of a car, i'd not pay over £6,500k or £7,000 tops for it personally. The 2001 car you're looking at seems like a good price for the mileage assuming the condition reflects it and everything else is in order.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2011
  4. s3dave

    s3dave TFSI Hybrid Supporter

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    The 2003 one is very pricey , they all map up the same if its power your after...
     
  5. DaveA3

    DaveA3 Audi A-Trizzle!

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    get the 210. it will map the same anyway IIRC. no way the price difference is justified either and triple check the legitimacy of the mileage.
     
  6. mk1chopper

    mk1chopper Missing the S3

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    What options do the 2 have, and what service history, id be looking at the 210 based on price but would also want a well spec'd one
     
  7. hootz

    hootz New Member

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    2001 AUDI S3 S3 Quattro 3dr Hatchback

    OK here is the advert, didn't really want to post in incase someone thinks its a bargain and buys it first. It 'looks' good, but description says weird things like: 'this car has no previous owners'. Also when I have typed it in for an insurance quote, the registration number has not been recognised.

    If I were to get it, the 3k saved could go on: exhaust, filters, ARBs, Suspension and a remap, which should see it nicely at 260bhp.
     
  8. jcs356

    jcs356 Brum brum

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    If the 2001 is pre March 1st then its road tax is cheaper.

    I'd also check the mileage - they are both ridiculously low for 10 year old cars.
     
  9. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    Get that one... 'Y' reg should be in the non banded road tax bracket... cheaper to tax than S3's registered after March 2001

    <tuffty/>
     
  10. beanoir

    beanoir Large Member

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    The 2003 car has been up for sale for a LONG time too
     
  11. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    Sign of the times my friend I think... these kinda cars are just not selling these days

    <tuffty/>
     
  12. beanoir

    beanoir Large Member

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    Agreed, and certainly not for that price they're not!
     
  13. Nilz

    Nilz Defo worth the wait :) Team Ibis TFSI Owners Group quattro Audi A4 S-line owners group saloon Manual

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    Go for the 210, they both map to the same anyway, just check the extras that come with the cars, either way, i would bother with 'that' 225, just as its well overpriced.

    Also, annually, you will proabably save a bit of money on the road tax as well.
     
  14. TDIQ

    TDIQ 8L > 8P > 8V

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    Agreed, and the values are only going down. A lot of people are under the impression that S3s (or even A3s) are worth far more than they actually are.
     
  15. s3dave

    s3dave TFSI Hybrid Supporter

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    They are worth what people are prepared to pay for them, and that has gone down a lot in the last year, probably due to people saying its a 10 year old car are you mad?, you will only get decent/fair money from the enthusiast now
     
  16. Westy

    Westy Well-Known Member

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    It's a ten year old car that likes drinking fuel. I still love mine though.
     
  17. TDIQ

    TDIQ 8L > 8P > 8V

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    Supply and demand. They're not particularly special cars are they? I love my 8L but let's face it, they're not particularly reliable, economical or compared to today's hot hatches, particularly quick.
     
  18. Westy

    Westy Well-Known Member

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    Not as standard, no :eyebrows:
     
  19. TDIQ

    TDIQ 8L > 8P > 8V

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    £3k rough S3 + BT = :blackrs4:
     
  20. [Dave B]

    [Dave B] Daddy

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    Sit in them both and don't pay over the odds either way.
     
  21. StaceyS3

    StaceyS3 Well-Known Member

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    I'd go for the 210 because you could have enough to take it to a well modded stage 2 with front brakes then that'll be much more punchy than the 225 and could even have money to spend on some facelift bits if you prefer the facelift look :)


    Also like said you would save on tax and even if you don't want to mod it you will not loose as much on the car for when you go to resell it as 3.5k is a lot of difference
     
  22. hootz

    hootz New Member

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    I didn't think S3 reliability was that bad!?!?
     
  23. Westy

    Westy Well-Known Member

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    It's not if they're looked after. The problems that most get are the sort of things you'd get from any 10 year old car.
     
  24. andrecc

    andrecc Member

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    depends on Specs, ive got a 210 facelight 2001 Jan, came with factory armrest, heated seats, bose surrond. im looking to get a remap soon
     
  25. hootz

    hootz New Member

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  26. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    Its not... its no less unreliable than any other 10 yr old VAG (or other marque) car...

    Biggest prob is they are getting 'too that age' and depending if the previous owner(s) were maticulous or just in for 6 months of ragging before moving it on then reliability will be subjective at best... all 20v's suffer from the same issues... just need to check out the obvious things and either get one with FSH, warrenty or from an obvious enthusiast...

    <tuffty/>
     
  27. Nilz

    Nilz Defo worth the wait :) Team Ibis TFSI Owners Group quattro Audi A4 S-line owners group saloon Manual

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    Hootz, the car looks very nice, it has a decent spec as well....

    Would give it a proper once over as the mileage looks very low and I also notice it said that it has had no previous owners???

    It also has TRACKER on it as well, you may have to pay for this on an annual basis.

    The price is slightly high, as they have really dropped in price, however, if its a keeper, it looks worth it, as its specced right and has very low mileage for its age....

    Let us know how you get on.
     
  28. jcs356

    jcs356 Brum brum

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    Y reg is March 2001 onwards so this car will have the higher 'banded' tax rate. Anything up to and including an X reg is the cheaper tax.
     
  29. s3dave

    s3dave TFSI Hybrid Supporter

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    true yours isnt....:moa:
     
  30. voorhees

    voorhees Moderator Staff Member Moderator Team V8 Audi S5 s tronic

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    Ouch lol
     
  31. voorhees

    voorhees Moderator Staff Member Moderator Team V8 Audi S5 s tronic

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  32. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    Ahhhh... yeah my bad... Dane's is an X reg facelift and his is on the non banded tax... was sure I have seen a Y reg one on non banded but I see so many of them I can't remember now... damn this old age etc... lol

    <tuffty/>
     
  33. warren_S5

    warren_S5 Moderator Moderator VCDS Map User

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    Won't help you make up your mind, but here's some research that was done on another site to work out the main differences between the two engines:

    210 is an AMK Engine code, 225 is BAM.

    210bhp/199lbft vs 225ps/208lbft. Both cars remap to practically the same. The 210 is actually 212ps, and the 225(ps) is actually 222bhp.

    ECU Code for the 225 has an “A” on the end.

    There were always rumours that the 210 had stronger internals (20mm wrist pins and different rods), but it seems that this rumour stemmed from the early Audi S3 APY engine (also 210bhp) having stronger rods. However, on an engine build thread (AMK), the gudgeon pins were measured at 20mm. The later BAM engine are supposed to have 19mm wrist pins.

    From ETOS and ETKA the block and piston set for AMK :06A 103 101 J and for the BAM : 06A 103 101 J, conrod for AMK : 027 198 401 B, conrod for BAM : 027 198 401 B. So if they are different, nobody told SEAT Parts.

    Both engines have VVT, but this is apparently for emissions rather than a VTEC style torque/power shift. Although most cars definitely pull again at about 4,000 rpm). Originally we thought the VVT actuation was different (one mechanical the other hydraulic) but we now understand them to be the same. Again, it is the APY (early 210 S3 engine, never fitted to the LCR) that has mechanical VVT actuation and possibly where the rumour started. Both AMK and BAM have Electro-hydraulic VVT actuation.

    The turbo (K04-23 from Borg-Warner), manifold & exhaust are all the same.


    On the car this is from (LCR), there was also enhancements to the wheel bearings, and some slight cosmetic changes like mirror shape, bonnet seals, stone chip protectors and different options (Tracker / Smartnav), steering wheel badge, so it may be worth going over both with a fine toothcomb to see if one offers anything more than the other.
     
  34. beanoir

    beanoir Large Member

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    And just to confuse things even further, some late AMK engines were also 225
     
  35. TDIQ

    TDIQ 8L > 8P > 8V

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    Insurance is bad enough on a TDI, no chance of an S3 for me.
     

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