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Dilema,911 or tuned S3 anybody?

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by gaz m, Apr 24, 2010.

  1. akash_sky1
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    akash_sky1 Active Member

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    [Apr 25, 2010]
    that equation took me quite a while to do and re-do!
    If see you've out a deposit down , congrats, what year is it?
    Hope its a post 2001 model with a nicer headlights, these are also less prone to the common leaking oil seals which ruined many early 996 engines.
    #41
  2. paddy
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    paddy Audi=No fault code, no idea

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    [Apr 25, 2010]
    Well done gazm. good luck and have fun :)
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  3. s3forthemrs
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    s3forthemrs Member

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    [Apr 25, 2010]
    good luck with the 996 c4s gaz... late ones are one of the best looking porsches. i love the big intakes in the front and the red light strip! i was close to getting one but could not find a really good one for reasonable money so ended up going for the 997C4S.

    996C4S doesn't have the switchable suspension, so you might find that it's a bit of a bone shaker! make sure you get it checked for RMS leaks.

    check out www.porscheclubgbforum.com for some reading.
    #43
  4. akash_sky1
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    akash_sky1 Active Member

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    [Apr 25, 2010]
    Are 997C4s going for less then 996C4s ? ! ^^
    #44
  5. paddy
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    paddy Audi=No fault code, no idea

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    [Apr 25, 2010]
    Eh...No
    #45
  6. s3forthemrs
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    s3forthemrs Member

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    [Apr 25, 2010]
    No! what i meant was that i couldn't find a decent 996C4S after looking for some time. so I ended up shelling out more for the 997C4S but got a really good one! this was about 3 years ago now and even porsches didn't fare too well on the residuals front. a PCP deal might have worked out quite well in hindsight!
    #46
  7. Kris
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    Kris Member

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    [Apr 25, 2010]
    Congrat's, sleepless nights for a while eh! enjoy
    #47
  8. gaz m
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    gaz m Member

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    [Apr 26, 2010]
    Akash
    Cheers for that info, Its a 2004 model so hopefully no problem's but we will see.

    Right then I have slept on your formula and still think your sort of right but still wrong with it.
    Yes the formula is correct and there are a great many forum's on the net debating this problem of increasing speed over air resistance however your start point for the calculation are wrong!

    A car company produces a car by cost aswell as design, so it budgets parts of the total production cost to major parts ie brakes, engine, shell, interior which makes a limit for each department so top line cost. The engine in the S3 is pretty good in standard form and produce's a stated 265bhp out of the box (quite often a fair bit more) Once the car is designed and first produced for testing all the company comes together and nit picks and health and safety and marketing guys and so on! how do you sell a small hatch that only does 10mpg because it goes so fast etc so most company's will put limitations onto the product to keep running cost's down, euro speed agrements etc even down to the fact that they dont want higher end products being shown up by a possible cheaper part of the brand name.

    So say they limit the output and speed by 20/30% to make the vehicle safe, cheap to run,appealing to the mass'es, cheap cost of parts, insurance friendly etc
    The speed of the standard s3 is controled by the setting of the rev limit ie 6500rpm the rev limiter cuts in and drops engine power by cutting the fuel pump until rev's drop back down and then it lets the engine work again. This max theretical speed of the gearbox as you say is around 160/165mph however the standard car has not actualy run out of power and is quite happy to carry on going faster at that point as it has not run out of steam or "hit the wall" it has been made to slow down by limiting its fuel supply. At the point of the rev limit kicking in the car may possibly only be using 80% of its 265 bhp?

    The stated formula is the correct way to work out how much extra power is needed to increase the top speed of the vehicle after a given point.
    The s3 has "not hit the wall" at 160mph it is still going strong and if the rev limit was raised it would carry on using its 265bhp to continue accelerating for a few more mph (say 170/175)
    the tuned s3 makes around 360bhp so 95 bhp over standard which as you say is about 35% more.
    apply your formula with the intention of a 5 or 10 mph increase and then see how much closer the bhp figures are?

    As I said your formula is correct but your start figures are wrong as they are asumptions as to the original top speed achieved by the engines 265bhp as the manufactures have put a mechanical limit to the engine therefore tampering with the figures.

    So with that in mind guys and Paddy........ Yes the S3 was actualy made to drive and brake from that sort of speed it has just been toned down by the car company for many reasons known only to them.

    Thanks for the debate though guy's its been interesting.

    Gaz
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2010
    #48
  9. percymon
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    percymon Member

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    [Apr 26, 2010]
    Good luck with the 996 - make sure you get a proper PPI done by someone reputable like Peter Morgan and not some halfwit with no knowledge of Porsches from the AA/RAC. If you want a warranty, to cover the possibility of the IMS failure, then you're pretty muh down to three options these days..

    1. Hartech maintenance plan - great if you're local to Hartech in the North West
    2. Tech9 warranty - covers tuned cars, about £1500 pa - Tech9 based in Liverpool
    3. Porsche - £1300 pa, needs £170 inspection and anything rectified before its granted, and they will not cover a car with anything but standard, even down to a non Porsche battery.

    Failing that, if you are risk averse, but £2.5k a year in an account to cover the worst case.


    Brilliant cars, smile a mile, but not wthout issues (as with every car !)
    #49
  10. PaulAr
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    PaulAr S3 (8P)

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    [Apr 26, 2010]
    Indeed.
    Design limits and safe working limits are very different.

    And unless you are part of the original R&D/design team we can only speculate on those margins.
    The on road figures tell the tale.

    Although you would need a large set of pips to drive an S3 at 170+bhp !!

    Cheers
    Paul
    #50
  11. gaz m
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    gaz m Member

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    [Apr 26, 2010]
    Exactly Paul

    We dont know the true figures as I doubt Audi will ever release any info on what they themselves found when they tested and developed the car/ engine combination.
    So we all have to assume certain paramiters if we want to work figures / speeds out by formula as the engine must be doing 100% at a set speed for the formula to work out the extra power needed or at least a know speed/ proven bhp figure to work from.

    All I can say is I can read and write and can understand figures on my sat nav and speedo, so black and white in front of me proven by my own eyes, That is good enough for me.

    Cheers Guys, Gaz
    #51
  12. JamesS4cab
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    JamesS4cab Well-Known Member

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    [Apr 26, 2010]
    Gaz - any links to the one you have purchased??

    I moved from a Boxster to an S4 and now to an S3, and already wondering if I should go down the 996 route as I dont have any kids and I really miss the Boxster. Only problem I have is that I have a c20k budget and so its going to be much older than I would really like. The beauty of the S3 is its totally trouble free motoring with a 12 month Audi warranty. The Boxster cost me a fortune to run, and every time any lights came on or went for a service, it was a proper brown trouser moment worrying about how much the bill was going to be.

    Tough decisions.
    #52
  13. gaz m
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    gaz m Member

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    [May 21, 2010]
    [​IMG]Hi James this is the link if it works?
    So far no cost's to run and it has a full Porsche waranty for 12 months which was a big bonus.
    It sounds awesome and stick's to the road like glue with bags of feed back to give you confidence which sadly is what was missing from my S3.
    Strangly it has the same insurance cost as my S3 had so that saved me a chunk I was expecting to fork out.

    http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/photo.php?pid=1344497&id=1269468374

    Cheers for your help in making my mind up guys Gaz
    #53
  14. beanoir
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    beanoir Large Member

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    [May 21, 2010]
    Have you found the steering to be "alive" in your hands? It's a Porsche trait and one that i've not found in any other car, even the Lotus and Caterham dont match it, it's a joy and what makes the Porsches so addictive.
    #54
  15. gaz m
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    gaz m Member

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    [May 22, 2010]
    Cheers mate,

    I thought it was a little twitchy at first but your statment makes sense now, as it just gives constant feed back even in a straight line? which I have never come across in a car before.

    The only drawback is the Missus needs to get in the gym as she keeps banging her head on the seat head rest when I set off from stand still! Not quite sure what that is but it results in a poke in the ribs which dosent help my driving. he he

    Cheers. Gaz
    #55

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